Class Rank and Matching

[TheSeanieB]

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[PMPMD]

Where does a person that is applying to an anesthesiology residency need to be typically regarding class rank (ball park)? I know that other things like board scores, LORs, and rotations can make up for a mediocre class rank. However, where is a good place to be, on average?

Class rank definitely takes a back seat to Step 1. School's reputation is also big. It's hard to compare class ranks since a lot of these places are pass/fail now. Class rank isn't even mentioned in Charting Outcomes which you should definitely look at if you haven't already.

 

[gasblaster]

Class rank definitely takes a back seat to Step 1. School's reputation is also big. It's hard to compare class ranks since a lot of these places are pass/fail now. Class rank isn't even mentioned in Charting Outcomes which you should definitely look at if you haven't already.

I would agree with the above (from my limited experience) because, even though my school isn't pass/fail, our dean's letter does not provide a class rank.

 

[TheSeanieB]

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[Per4mer8]

So residency programs will not know the class ranks of students from your school? I was under the impression that residency applications were simular to AMCAS applications and contained this info on a cover sheet.

They will know. But like others said its no big deal. I would assume as long as you're not bottom quartile/third etc you will be fine. Board scores, letters, and clerkship grades are the top three in my opinion.

 

[Josh1]

Your deans letter does provide a class rank. Deans letter use a standardized language, our dean told us this. If you have term 'outstanding' it's top 5%, then excellent for the next 20%, then something else; I can look on the lecture if you really want to know. I think if you''re in the bottom 20% you get 'very good.' They don't put the number but all program directors know the lingo. Our dean told us this was true even for pass/fail program because it keeps communication between medical schools transparent (for the program directors, not the student unfortunately). When you get your MSPE look at the bottom and it will say '[Name] will make an [insert code word for class rank, i.e. very good] resident'
If you read your required clerkship reviews they all have a set of standardized language as well, like they all mention something about professionalism (ie you didn't do something incredibly stupid) and most use the same 'outstanding' 'excellent' 'very good' etc.
No program director wants to use language that makes students from their school seem good sot hey basically all use positive adjectives but between program directors they all get the message

 

[Gern Blansten]

Your deans letter does provide a class rank. Deans letter use a standardized language, our dean told us this. If you have term 'outstanding' it's top 5%, then excellent for the next 20%, then something else; I can look on the lecture if you really want to know. I think if you''re in the bottom 20% you get 'very good.' They don't put the number but all program directors know the lingo. Our dean told us this was true even for pass/fail program because it keeps communication between medical schools transparent (for the program directors, not the student unfortunately). When you get your MSPE look at the bottom and it will say '[Name] will make an [insert code word for class rank, i.e. very good] resident'
If you read your required clerkship reviews they all have a set of standardized language as well, like they all mention something about professionalism (ie you didn't do something incredibly stupid) and most use the same 'outstanding' 'excellent' 'very good' etc.
No program director wants to use language that makes students from their school seem good sot hey basically all use positive adjectives but between program directors they all get the message

Partly true. The problem is that each school uses different code words and different grading systems. It takes a lot of searching through the dean's letter to decipher what that school's code is. Some still have true pass fail with no delineation between the top quarter or the dead last student in the class. In addition, the transcripts from each school use different 1 or 2 letter codes for each grade level, if they assign these. For instance, SP might mean superior, but you don't know if superior is better than or worse than outstanding which is signified by an "O."
I miss the days of a simple number grade or A's/B's/C's. It was straightforward and everyone understood it. It is now such a chess match trying to make even the worst student sound awesome. The Dean's letter is now quite worthless IMHO. It comes out much too late and the information they give out is limited because no one gives honest assessments. Any negative comment gets plea bargained down to a very simple middle of the road comment. Pretty soon, we will do away with diplomas and just give participation ribbons.
Students should be upset about this as well. You work your butt off to set yourself apart from your peers, and the only thing that matters is a standardized test score.

 

[gasblaster]

Partly true. The problem is that each school uses different code words and different grading systems. It takes a lot of searching through the dean's letter to decipher what that school's code is. Some still have true pass fail with no delineation between the top quarter or the dead last student in the class. In addition, the transcripts from each school use different 1 or 2 letter codes for each grade level, if they assign these. For instance, SP might mean superior, but you don't know if superior is better than or worse than outstanding which is signified by an "O."
I miss the days of a simple number grade or A's/B's/C's. It was straightforward and everyone understood it. It is now such a chess match trying to make even the worst student sound awesome. The Dean's letter is now quite worthless IMHO. It comes out much too late and the information they give out is limited because no one gives honest assessments. Any negative comment gets plea bargained down to a very simple middle of the road comment. Pretty soon, we will do away with diplomas and just give participation ribbons.
Students should be upset about this as well. You work your butt off to set yourself apart from your peers, and the only thing that matters is a standardized test score.

This is what I meant. Our school does not provide an actual ranking position but goes with code words which unfortunately doesn't help differentiate because there are probably less than 4 or 5 different words that they use. However, they provide the grade distribution for each course and clerkship with the dean's letter.

 

[TheSeanieB]

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[PMPMD]

Med school acceptance=MCAT+(GPA and School Rep)+LORs+Other
Anesthesia Acceptance=Board Scores+(Class Rank and School Rep)+LORs+Rotations+Other
Does this seem accurate? If not, how would you change the equation.

USMLE is #1. Class rank, school rep, rotation, interview in the next category. LORs rarely make a positive difference unless they're amazing and come from a big name individual. Applicants are usually wise enough to ask for letters from someone who will write a glowing recommendation.

 

[PMPMD]

Med school acceptance=MCAT+(GPA and School Rep)+LORs+Other
Anesthesia Acceptance=Board Scores+(Class Rank and School Rep)+LORs+Rotations+Other
Does this seem accurate? If not, how would you change the equation.

See also Charting Outcomes in the Match.

 

[BigRedder]

"Charting Outcomes" does mention the relative importance of grades, which I believe is pretty high, especially clerkship grades. There is clearly a close correlation between grades and rank, so if you have good grades your rank should be fine. On average, a good place to be is at the top. If you want to get into an average program, average grades should suffice, but who wants to aspire to an average program?

 

[PMPMD]

"Charting Outcomes" does mention the relative importance of grades, which I believe is pretty high, especially clerkship grades. There is clearly a close correlation between grades and rank, so if you have good grades your rank should be fine. On average, a good place to be is at the top. If you want to get into an average program, average grades should suffice, but who wants to aspire to an average program?

Grades and rank are definitely important, they're just harder to compare. Is a student in Q2 at a top 10 school better or worse than a student in Q1 at a middle-tier school? That's why adcoms love the USMLEs - it's a lot easier to compare apples to apples. In my opinion, other than predicting ABA written board exam success, the step 1 has a weak correlation with performance in residency. But it's what adcoms use, so you better rock it.

 

[floridaboy18]

The school I attended does not use code words, and our dean's letter actually says this on it *and it was mentioned at one or two of my interviews even. I dont think class rank is essential. I ranked 102 out of 119 after 1st and 2nd year and top 25% during third year. Matched at my number 1 place, and have no doubts I would have matched at two and three as well (they essentially guarunteed me a spot, which i know some same does not mean much...but I was given a pretty firm guaruntee).

Board scores>LOR/school rep>Interview>>>>>>>>Class rank IMHO

 

[MilkmanAl]

I had neither class rank (lower end of mid-third overall, top end of mid third for M3) or school name (Arkansas) working for me but got more interviews than I could handle with decent but not awe-inspiring Step scores (228, 243). I also matched at my top choice, though I doubt it's a terribly competitive program. Like floridaboy, I'm reasonably confident I would've matched at any of my top few had I ranked them #1. It's an anecdote, sure, but it's still something to think about.