Class Skipping Culture IN Medical School

[Espadaleader]

Looking through SDN and various blogs, I've found that a large fraction of medical students regularly skip classes. I found it crazy, but it seems to work 😕 What do you think? This is a 5 year old thread on the topic http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=248365

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[IvyHopeful20]

The lectures are often recorded, the notes are mostly available. And you have the syllabus. Why would you go to class?

I guess it helps some people but I'll probably go until the first exam and then I'll only attend mandatory lectures. I learn better on my own anyway.

 

[ArcGurren]

I generally go but I don't listen to the lecturer - I'll pre-read the notes and then make my own from the outline and scribes.

You guys need to stop sounding so surprised about this. It's NOT considered a bad thing in medical school.

 

[FloatOn]

Waking up for 8am lectures every day gets old...VERY quickly.

 

[BBender716]

I NEVER skipped lecture in undergrad and was convinced I would never in medical school. I'm very quickly beginning to see why students skip in medical school. All of the professors are brilliant, but many are terrible presenters and rarely add anything additional to the slides. You can read the slides and watch the presentation at 2x speed and spend more time studying on your own.

I'm VERY close to doing this once we stop having mandatory attendance. 🙄

 

[theWUbear]

A bunch of people are beginning to stop going to class where I am (since exam one has passed), i just enjoy being exposed to the material once before I watch the lecture again. also ensures i have anything written on the board since they do audio + uploaded powerpoint here, not legit video

 

[DrYoda]

Here's why I almost always skip class.

8-12: sit in class, I have no attention span. I learn next to nothing.
12-1: lunch. yay! free food
1-? (depends on the day)- see 8-12.
?-5- fall asleep on couch.
5- wake up. ****! the day's over and I've learned nothing.
5-6- scramble to make something to eat. Eat.
6-sometime- Actually learn what I was supposed to learn in class.
sometime-1- Relax. Think about how much med school sucks.
1-8- sleep, get up, repeat misery.

as opposed to:
?- roll out of bed. Spend 4 hours sometime learning stuff. Be 100x happier.

I've gotten to the point where I don't even watch the lecture. Pretty much everything at my school is in the powerpoints. If I lose a few points from not watching lecture then so be it, it's not worth the time.

 

[gravitywave]

Here's why I almost always skip class.

8-12: sit in class, I have no attention span. I learn next to nothing.
12-1: lunch. yay! free food
1-? (depends on the day)- see 8-12.
?-5- fall asleep on couch.
5- wake up. ****! the day's over and I've learned nothing.
5-6- scramble to make something to eat. Eat.
6-sometime- Actually learn what I was supposed to learn in class.
sometime-1- Relax. Think about how much med school sucks.
1-8- sleep, get up, repeat misery.

as opposed to:
?- roll out of bed. Spend 4 hours sometime learning stuff. Be 100x happier.

I've gotten to the point where I don't even watch the lecture. Pretty much everything at my school is in the powerpoints. If I lose a few points from not watching lecture then so be it, it's not worth the time.

do you require acolytes of some kind? i offer myself for such duty, as you are clearly the high priest of my temple.

 

[deleted307836]

Here's why I almost always skip class.

8-12: sit in class, I have no attention span. I learn next to nothing.
12-1: lunch. yay! free food
1-? (depends on the day)- see 8-12.
?-5- fall asleep on couch.
5- wake up. ****! the day's over and I've learned nothing.
5-6- scramble to make something to eat. Eat.
6-sometime- Actually learn what I was supposed to learn in class.
sometime-1- Relax. Think about how much med school sucks.
1-8- sleep, get up, repeat misery.

as opposed to:
?- roll out of bed. Spend 4 hours sometime learning stuff. Be 100x happier.

I've gotten to the point where I don't even watch the lecture. Pretty much everything at my school is in the powerpoints. If I lose a few points from not watching lecture then so be it, it's not worth the time.

The first scenario would be me at a mandatory attendance school.

SDN needs to assemble a master list of schools without required attendance one of these days...

 

[DrYoda]

do you require acolytes of some kind? i offer myself for such duty, as you are clearly the high priest of my temple.

The only requirement is that you must never join the professionalism committee. Unless you want to infiltrate them and veto everything, of this I would approve.👍

 

[nlax30]

Hence one of the reasons I went with a PBL curriculum. Only had to be on campus for ~2 hours a day.

The actual material in med school is not technically hard to understand, but there is a lot of it.... so most students feel more comfortable approaching it their own specific way instead of sitting through several hours of lecture which may be just a repeat of what you already have in your notes/syllabus or a professor going on and on about some obscure detail that really is extremely low yield.

 

[45408]

Class is boring. Doctors/scientists usually aren't really good lecturers, but they are thorough in their Powerpoints. Read the Powerpoints, skip the lectures, and don't waste time being unproductive if lectures don't help.

 

[ensuii]

Skipping class has nothing to do with being lazy or people not being diligent with their studies. Consider the average person that gets into medical school. People don't all of a sudden become slackers.

The reason people don't go to class is because of efficiency. You have no idea how fast some of these lectures can go. For the most part, they all go through material at such a rapid pace that it's nearly impossible to internalize all the new terms/concepts while you're sitting there. For every 1hr of lecture you spend AT LEAST that same amount of time outside of class memorizing the words on the slide. Lecture pretty much becomes a briefing of information....your instructors outline the material, tell you what to focus on (ie, what will be on the test) and explain/demonstrate material that's not immediately apparent from what is written. It's pretty much assumed that everyone will spend a significant time outside of the lecture hour memorizing the slides/tables and relistening to lectures (I've listened to the same lecture multiple times at 1.5x speed if I felt like the instructor did a good job at accentuating certain nuances and key points).

 

[willen101383]

The only way I would find going to class useful, is if I prestudied before going to lecture. Otherwise the flood of info that comes at you quick can really stress you out.

 

[NickNaylor]

In my interviews I've actually met a surprising number of students that do still go to class (despite the fact that video recordings of the lectures are posted online).

 

[dr zaius]

In my interviews I've actually met a surprising number of students that do still go to class (despite the fact that video recordings of the lectures are posted online).

Right now I am still attending class because our lecturers have been entertaining so far...plus the fact that lab is always scheduled right after lecture, and missing lab seems to be a bad idea.

Also lectures generally start at 1:00pm so waking up is not an issue.

 

[MilkmanAl]

By the end of last year, M2, about 80% of our class skipped lectures. If I had it to do over again, I'd skip every single class i could during the first 2 years.

 

[pianola]

I'm more moderate in my class-skipping habits. Sometimes going to class will help you remember things better than watching your 1 billionth video in a row. It helps if you know whether the lecturer is going to be good or bad, but sometimes you have to make your best guess. (I try to go to the lectures with good lecturers).

I go to some classes, assuming I'm not too sleepy or too hungry or have other needs that need to be filled. I mean, otherwise I'm just stuck in my room studying or doing whatever all day (which can get just as old as going to every single class). Also, I like seeing my classmates and stuff.

Everything in moderation, at least, for me.

 

[mvenus929]

I'm the type of person that always goes to lectures. Something about hearing the information presented to me helps me to remember it. That, and I really don't have enough self-discipline to get up before 8, sit down at my desk, and study on a daily basis. Going to class gives me that structure.

We get learning objectives for each lecture prior to the start of the lecture. I'll generally read through those and do some pre-reading for the lecture, then I'll go to lecture and write out the learning objectives as the instructor goes through the powerpoint. If I miss something, I can download the powerpoint and finish up. After class, I go back and fill in the details.

My roommate, on the other hand, goes through the lecture materials in detail, then uses the learning objectives to test her knowledge. I'm not sure how long she'll keep that up, because she tends to get really burnt out when answering all the learning objectives, but she's one that doesn't really go to class unless it's required. Today, for instance, she's in the library... while I went to class and am now relaxing at home, since I have only a few things to do to prepare for class tomorrow.

 

[FlowRate]

In undergrad, I go to lecture because it's unofficially mandatory. However, I've also learned that I sleep in lecture. I don't learn anything unless it's especially hard material with an exceptionally good lecturer. This is not a concern in med school, when you're mostly memorizing bio-y stuff. Bio lecture has always been an exercise in how long I can pretend to pay attention.

 

[NotAsking4Much]

I stopped going the first week of class. It's not that the professors are bad or anything, it's usually one of two scenarios I've seen. #1) Half the lecture you already know because of classes or fields of interests in undergrad. #2) The guy is so niche in his lecture and so quick you just kind of sit there dazed, after giving up trying to incorporate everything.

Whereas I can sit at home, watch the lecture onlines, and go at my own pace. Speed up and pause as I wish.

 

[DancinSarah]

If medical students are proving to be successful in passing the boards and becoming successful physicians while skipping classes, maybe more medical schools need to re-evaluate the idea of lectures and possibly cancel them entirely. I'd imagine you'd save a hearty sum of money.

 

[MCAT guy]

By the end of last year, M2, about 80% of our class skipped lectures. If I had it to do over again, I'd skip every single class i could during the first 2 years.

Are a lot of schools mandatory lectures?

That would blow.

 

[JJMrK]

At this point your time is valuable and scarce enough that if sitting in lecture doesn't help you, it doesn't make sense to go.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Are a lot of schools mandatory lectures?

That would blow.

All PBL sessions are mandatory, as far as I'm aware. There are also some schools that have mandatory lectures, but I don't know which or how many.

 

[pianola]

If medical students are proving to be successful in passing the boards and becoming successful physicians while skipping classes, maybe more medical schools need to re-evaluate the idea of lectures and possibly cancel them entirely. I'd imagine you'd save a hearty sum of money.

There's a difference between not attending the class at the time it's taught (watching them on video/realtime/mp3 whatevs aftewards)

VS

not attending the class AND not watching it afterwards.

I doubt too many people are the type to totally skip class and skip the lectures, although I'm sure some people do.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I doubt too many people are the type to totally skip class and skip the lectures, although I'm sure some people do.

 

[pianola]

hehe, fair enough, but probably still *most* people watch the lectures right? Even if it's only to watch them once at 2x and then get on with their lives?

I'm sure it's also school dependent. Some schools don't record their lectures 😱. 😉

 

[ILikeDrugs]

I'll be skipping lecture; both formats. What's the point if all the material that you need to know is in handouts and slides. Med school rats: have any of you ever been tested on something that wasn't on the handouts or slides?

 

[bacalaca]

During the first quarter of first year, our attendance was like 80%.. by spring quarter of first year the attendance dropped to about 30%... by the spring quarter of second year, the attendance dropped to 10%.


Our curriculum was pretty much all lecture, and only a few were podcasted and none were videotaped, i guess their way of forcing us to go... It didn't work.... lol. I liked that it was non-mandatory lecture cause I was able to retain my undergrad sleeping habits of going to bed at 4 am and waking up at noon.

However, the curriculum just changed for the class of 2014 and each new class will be pretty much all PBL lol.

 

[DrYoda]

hehe, fair enough, but probably still *most* people watch the lectures right? Even if it's only to watch them once at 2x and then get on with their lives?

I'm sure it's also school dependent. Some schools don't record their lectures 😱. 😉

Unless your profs drop tons of extra information that's going to be tested during lecture (doubtful for most places) it's a waste of time to watch, listen or attend lecture. It does seem quite a few of my classmates listen to the lecture out of guilt or something, but time is to precious to be guilted into wasting IMO.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I actually knew very few people who watched but did not attend lecture.

 

[brooklynblunder]

i skip class and skip the online lectures. i dont need a ****ing lullaby and a handjob to learn the brachial plexus. there's books and ****

 

[psipsina]

In medschool time is too precious to waste it in low yield learning settings. I quickly learned that I am far more efficient on my own in the library than I am in a lecture hall. 1) I'm a visual active learner not an auditory passive learner 2) lectures went too slow thru stuff I was comfortable with and too fast thru stuff I needed to contemplate a bit more 3) I don't have the attention span for 4+ hours of lecture in a morning (and neither did most of my classmates who were surfing the internet or playing starcraft 😉 ). In UG you HAD to go to class to get the info that was on the test but in medschool you have notesets/syllabi &/or videos of that information. So there just is no point if you don't learn well in that setting. You'll find that you become very self centered in this process, out of necessity. You do whatever you have to do to get the info into your head and simultaneously maintain life sustaining activities (and hopefully sanity sustaining activities too!!). If I could do all of the above AND politely sit thru lectures that would be faboo, but getting thru the beast is #1 priority.

 

[dr zaius]

i skip class and skip the online lectures. i dont need a ****ing lullaby and a handjob to learn the brachial plexus. there's books and ****

I would have loved a HJ while learning the brachial plexus.

 

[FlowRate]

i skip class and skip the online lectures. i dont need a ****ing lullaby and a handjob to learn the brachial plexus. there's books and ****

Exactly.

(although I must agree that a HJ + studying is pretty good and seems like a darn fine positive feedback mechanism to me)

 

[Ilvcurst]

Skipping class has nothing to do with being lazy or people not being diligent with their studies. Consider the average person that gets into medical school. People don't all of a sudden become slackers.

The reason people don't go to class is because of efficiency. You have no idea how fast some of these lectures can go. For the most part, they all go through material at such a rapid pace that it's nearly impossible to internalize all the new terms/concepts while you're sitting there. For every 1hr of lecture you spend AT LEAST that same amount of time outside of class memorizing the words on the slide. Lecture pretty much becomes a briefing of information....your instructors outline the material, tell you what to focus on (ie, what will be on the test) and explain/demonstrate material that's not immediately apparent from what is written. It's pretty much assumed that everyone will spend a significant time outside of the lecture hour memorizing the slides/tables and relistening to lectures (I've listened to the same lecture multiple times at 1.5x speed if I felt like the instructor did a good job at accentuating certain nuances and key points).

This is it exactly...for anatomy there is no way to keep up because the lecturers just fly through the stuff. It's a waste of time to go to lecture. The best is to read the notes, learn the stuff, and then watch the lecture on 2X for completeness.

Some of the lecturers are horrible or have thick accents so you don't know what is going on...

In undergrad you had to go to class because the professor would often spill key information that wasn't in the notes and especially regarding exams. In med school everything is in your notes and your professors don't stray from the notes often at all.

It's mainly about being efficient. Why waste an hour when in class and internalizing 10% when you can spend that hour really learning the material?

There is so much stuff to learn that honestly sometimes you don't have time for class...

 

[thedoctor8706]

I hate going to class. Hate it. I never take anything out of the lectures. But every time I decide to skip and learn it on my own in 1/2 the time, the professor ends up adding something or doing something in class to augment the material posted online. I always end up missing something. I really hate going to class, I'm too ADHD.

 

[pizzastories]

I NEVER skipped lecture in undergrad and was convinced I would never in medical school. I'm very quickly beginning to see why students skip in medical school. All of the professors are brilliant, but many are terrible presenters and rarely add anything additional to the slides. You can read the slides and watch the presentation at 2x speed and spend more time studying on your own.

I'm VERY close to doing this once we stop having mandatory attendance. 🙄

I mean, I haven't been going to any of my lectures and find watching the lectures afterward is very helpful. But 2X speed? Can this really be done? I find for the slowest of slow lectures that 1.6X or 1.7X is pushing it, and for people who talk fast 1.4X is the maximum. Beyond that the audio quality really deteriorates. I use Quicktime to watch lectures; is there a different program you are using?

 

[McPoyle]

I would have loved a HJ while learning the brachial plexus.

Worked for me for a lil while until those prude bitches next to me started complaining.... I mean seriously, don't like it, don't look at it! I was payin good money for that handie...

 

[OtoHNS]

I probably attended about 50% of the lectures 1st 2 years of med school. I generally didn't show up before 10 AM unless I knew it was a good lecturer. That's crazy that you guys can watch videos of the lectures now, we used to have all the powerpoint slides and written transcripts of the lectures.

 

[Siggy]

Are a lot of schools mandatory lectures?

That would blow.

I'm willing to bet that most schools mandate attendance at all lectures. A more proper question would be, "Do a lot of schools enforce said provision of the university catalog?"

 

[45408]

If medical students are proving to be successful in passing the boards and becoming successful physicians while skipping classes, maybe more medical schools need to re-evaluate the idea of lectures and possibly cancel them entirely. I'd imagine you'd save a hearty sum of money.

Hahahahahahahahaha. They'll never cut back on your tuition.

 

[BBender716]

I mean, I haven't been going to any of my lectures and find watching the lectures afterward is very helpful. But 2X speed? Can this really be done? I find for the slowest of slow lectures that 1.6X or 1.7X is pushing it, and for people who talk fast 1.4X is the maximum. Beyond that the audio quality really deteriorates. I use Quicktime to watch lectures; is there a different program you are using?

Haha, naw. That was an approximation. I doubt I'd watch it at legit 2.0x. There's this lecturer we have the doesn't talk slowly but he literally repeats the same points with no new info because he thinks he doesn't explain it well the first time he says it. Along with that, he stutters. Not in a "speech pathology" kind of way, but in the "constantly trying to remember terms/phrases so I'll just repeat the previous phrase over and over until I remember", kind of way.

 

[TDX]

Today, our neurology professor told us that when he was a student, he averaged about 10 lectures a year. Needless to say, I won't be attending his lectures.

Personally, I've noticed that attending lectures is only really worthwhile if you're ahead of the study schedule. If you're ahead, attending lectures is like reviewing the material. If you're not, attending lectures is like hearing an old man ramble semi-coherently for several hours.

 

[BBender716]

Today, our neurology professor told us that when he was a student, he averaged about 10 lectures a year. Needless to say, I won't be attending his lectures.

Personally, I've noticed that attending lectures is only really worthwhile if you're ahead of the study schedule. If you're ahead, attending lectures is like reviewing the material. If you're not, attending lectures is like hearing an old man ramble semi-coherently for several hours.

qft.

 

[Geekchick921]

All PBL sessions are mandatory, as far as I'm aware. There are also some schools that have mandatory lectures, but I don't know which or how many.

Anyone have any idea if this is something that you can find on the schools website, or be told about on interview day, or something else?

 

[MilkmanAl]

I asked my tour guides and got a good idea, but I can't imagine that's a great thing to ask your interviewers.

 

[McPoyle]

I always just asked if they taped the lectures or what would happen in the case of illness or such where I wasn't able to make it. Nobody seemed to view this as shady or such.

 

[Geekchick921]

I asked my tour guides and got a good idea, but I can't imagine that's a great thing to ask your interviewers.

Oh I agree, and I actually think I learn best in class. But I'd like to know how convenient it would be for me to keep up if I had to miss class if my kid is sick or if I was pregnant again during medical school.