Classes not covering material in FA?

[dextor2003]

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I'm finding that there are a lot of specific details and examples in FA that aren't being covered in my classes. I understand no school can possibly cover everything you need to know for boards, but I was a little worried about not covering material in FA...which is supposed to be "high yield." Is this normal? Others who have experienced this, what was your approach? Did you try to learn the extra material or just focus on classwork? Do you think it made a difference when it came down to dedicated studying and/or step 1 performance?

 

[PL198]

I don't get why people are so obsessed with what's in FA. Your classes aren't directly to get you ready for step 1, it's to teach you XYZ subject. If your professors don't think something that's high yield for step 1 will accomplish that, it won't be in your class. Seeing as FA isn't big at all you could easily just go over the same sections you're learning, or just wait till closer when you take step 1 and just study from it.

 

[dextor2003]

Why we're obsessed? Because let's be real. Yeah we want to be good doctors who actually know our stuff, but before that we want to make sure we do well on an exam that quite literally determines the rest of our careers...

I've tried going through FA along with classes. The stuff that's covered in class is no problem. It's the stuff that's not that takes up a lot of time trying to learn. So I guess I wanted to see if ignoring all that for now was the norm and how it played out come dedicated studying time and the actual exam.

 

[BobbyB]

Why we're obsessed? Because let's be real. Yeah we want to be good doctors who actually know our stuff, but before that we want to make sure we do well on an exam that quite literally determines the rest of our careers...

I've tried going through FA along with classes. The stuff that's covered in class is no problem. It's the stuff that's not that takes up a lot of time trying to learn. So I guess I wanted to see if ignoring all that for now was the norm and how it played out come dedicated studying time and the actual exam.

it is the norm

all the major stuff will obviously overlap, but classes don't always cover FA material and FA doesn't go nearly as in-depth as class material

 

[cbrons]

it is the norm

all the major stuff will obviously overlap, but classes don't always cover FA material and FA doesn't go nearly as in-depth as class material

Its not a problem that FA isnt as in depth since its only a high yield review.

It is a problem (a very big one IMO) when an allopathic medical school has an entire subject that covers little to nothing mentioned in First Aid. This probably means the teaching is awful and/or consists of PHDs who want you memorize unimportant factoids with little-no clinical relevance OR MD professors who think teaching a class is akin to telling a bunch of anecdotal stories about their own practice which, while perhaps quite interesting do very little to equip a student the appropriate clinical knowledge.


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[AlmostAnMD]

If everything in your class was in FA, FA would be 5,000 pages

 

[operaman]

If you're an m1, you may find your school covers more of each section in future blocks or maybe next year. If you're an m2, the same applies but there will be some things you don't cover. It will be a small amount of stuff, but I would just learn it.

 

[DermViser]

I don't get why people are so obsessed with what's in FA. Your classes aren't directly to get you ready for step 1, it's to teach you XYZ subject. If your professors don't think something that's high yield for step 1 will accomplish that, it won't be in your class. Seeing as FA isn't big at all you could easily just go over the same sections you're learning, or just wait till closer when you take step 1 and just study from it.

If you're paying 30K - 50K in tuition per year, the least a basic science professor could do is open up a First Aid or a board review book and incorporate the factoid in his powerpoint, which he'll reuse every year. The purpose of basic sciences is dual - to give you a good medical foundation AND prepare you for Step 1.

 

[05silvergt]

If everything in your class was in FA, FA would be 5,000 pages

I think you have the OP's concern backwards. His concern is that everything in FA should be covered in class and it isn't; not that everything in class should be in FA. In that case FA becomes terribly low yield overall.

 

[DermViser]

If everything in your class was in FA, FA would be 5,000 pages

Read the OP's post, again.

 

[Robotman]

derm gets it.

 

[sinombre]

Read the OP's post, again.

I misread it as well. Although it would be pretty cool if there were a master list of information that could show up on step 1.

 

[DermViser]

I misread it as well. Although it would be pretty cool if there were a master list of information that could show up on step 1.

There is: http://www.usmle.org/pdfs/usmlecontentoutline2014.pdf

 

[sinombre]

There is: http://www.usmle.org/pdfs/usmlecontentoutline2014.pdf

There are only 24 pages worth of information on step 1? Why have I been spending so much time studying?

 

[Kahreek]

Its not a problem that FA isnt as in depth since its only a high yield review.

It is a problem (a very big one IMO) when an allopathic medical school has an entire subject that covers little to nothing mentioned in First Aid. This probably means the teaching is awful and/or consists of PHDs who want you memorize unimportant factoids with little-no clinical relevance OR MD professors who think teaching a class is akin to telling a bunch of anecdotal stories about their own practice which, while perhaps quite interesting do very little to equip a student the appropriate clinical knowledge.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

I wish I was an academic so I could tell my little funny remarkable medical related stories at lectures... alas I just have sdn for it.

 

[Ismet]

If you're paying 30K - 50K in tuition per year, the least a basic science professor could do is open up a First Aid or a board review book and incorporate the factoid in his powerpoint, which he'll reuse every year. The purpose of basic sciences is dual - to give you a good medical foundation AND prepare you for Step 1.

Our education in the clinical years so far seems to be much more shelf- and board-oriented. Or maybe it's that there are just more residents/young attendings teaching us now who make it a point to highlight what was high yield for them. Either way, much appreciated!

 

[DermViser]

Our education in the clinical years so far seems to be much more shelf- and board-oriented. Or maybe it's that there are just more residents/young attendings teaching us now who make it a point to highlight what was high yield for them. Either way, much appreciated!

Even MS-3 is corrupted by standardized exams (shelf) and thus can be gamed, but not completely.

 

[link2swim06]

Even MS-3 is corrupted by standardized exams (shelf) and thus can be gamed, but not completely.

Ehhh in retrospect the shelf exam studying prepared me for step 2 pretty well.

If you do well on step 2 you have a good basic understanding of clinic medicine. And by basic, I mean you know what topics exist and have a framework to apply stuff you learn/see intern year and forwards.


Frankly, apart from the vocabulary of medicine you learn...step 1 is as relevant to clinic practice as learning accounting for 2 years.

 

[DermViser]

Ehhh in retrospect the shelf exam studying prepared me for step 2 pretty well.

If you do well on step 2 you have a good basic understanding of clinic medicine. And by basic, I mean you know what topics exist and have a framework to apply stuff you learn/see intern year and forwards.

Frankly, apart from the vocabulary of medicine you learn...step 1 is as relevant to clinic practice as learning accounting for 2 years.

I was talking with respect to being clinically competent, not with respect to acing another standardized exam. The shelfs are meant for Step 2 CK preparation and accomplishes that goal well.

And no, if you do well on Step 2 CK, that doesn't necessarily mean you have a good handle on clinical medicine.

 

[link2swim06]

I was talking with respect to being clinically competent, not with respect to acing another standardized exam. The shelfs are meant for Step 2 CK preparation and accomplishes that goal well.

And no, if you do well on Step 2 CK, that doesn't necessarily mean you have a good handle on clinical medicine.

I don't think any med student has a good handle on clinical medicine. But a high CK score means you have a very basic foundational knowledge of clinical medicine. One of the main purposes of M3/M4 year, no?

I'm not arguing book smarts equals experience or ability to apply it in a clinical setting. I'm say the shelf exams have content you show know before you start residency. They encourage and direct your studying. This is in contrast to step 1 material where nobody gives a crap about it after M2 year.

 

[DermViser]

I don't think any med student has a good handle on clinical medicine. But a high CK score means you have a very basic foundational knowledge of clinical medicine. One of the main purposes of M3/M4 year, no?

I'm not arguing book smarts equals experience or ability to apply it in a clinical setting. I'm say the shelf exams have content you show know before you start residency. They encourage and direct your studying. This is in contrast to step 1 material where nobody gives a crap about it after M2 year.

Highly depends on the specialty in question.

 

[dextor2003]

thanks for the responses. I feel like if I try to learn the extra FA material now, I don't learn the class material as well, and so my grades aren't as good. if that's the case, should I just stick to class material? or should I let grades drop a little to try to learn the extra FA material better? it's not my grades falling that would bother me, as much as it is that I keep hearing about this strong relationship between class performance and step 1 scores. in response to what someone mentioned earlier, the material we're learning this year (I'm an M2) hasn't really been much minutia. most of it seems to be clinically relevant so far (even though some of it is still not in FA). and when we do have minutia, our professors explicitly tell us to ignore it for the tests

 

[kydoc]

I'm finding that there are a lot of specific details and examples in FA that aren't being covered in my classes. I understand no school can possibly cover everything you need to know for boards, but I was a little worried about not covering material in FA...which is supposed to be "high yield." Is this normal? Others who have experienced this, what was your approach? Did you try to learn the extra material or just focus on classwork? Do you think it made a difference when it came down to dedicated studying and/or step 1 performance?

If there is "a lot" of material that's in FA and not being covered in your class, you really should bring it to your professor's attention because you'll need to know that book inside out for step 1. But if your school is system's based, you might be covering that material in a different block.

 

[dextor2003]

If there is "a lot" of material that's in FA and not being covered in your class, you really should bring it to your professor's attention because you'll need to know that book inside out for step 1. But if your school is system's based, you might be covering that material in a different block.

we are systems based but all the material I'm talking about from FA isn't from the systems chapters. it's all from the general principles chapters...so I don't know if they plan on somehow covering that material later in the systems blocks or not.

 

[seminoma]

we are systems based but all the material I'm talking about from FA isn't from the systems chapters. it's all from the general principles chapters...so I don't know if they plan on somehow covering that material later in the systems blocks or not.

General principles can be taught indirectly through system relevant material.. For example neoplasia characteristics don't need a dedicated lecture. You learn about various neoplasias and make the connections on your own.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

I'm finding that there are a lot of specific details and examples in FA that aren't being covered in my classes. I understand no school can possibly cover everything you need to know for boards, but I was a little worried about not covering material in FA...which is supposed to be "high yield." Is this normal? Others who have experienced this, what was your approach? Did you try to learn the extra material or just focus on classwork? Do you think it made a difference when it came down to dedicated studying and/or step 1 performance?

You can't expect a class to say each and every last point in FA. In the long run thats not going to make sense, a teacher standing there and explaining to you every last factoid in FA. Whats more important is that you cover the concepts and theory that FA covers. And like everyone said it may just be covered in another class. There is a lot of overlap

If you're paying 30K - 50K in tuition per year, the least a basic science professor could do is open up a First Aid or a board review book and incorporate the factoid in his powerpoint, which he'll reuse every year. The purpose of basic sciences is dual - to give you a good medical foundation AND prepare you for Step 1.

100% agree with this. Your classes SHOULD cover all the high yield material for the steps.

 

[DermViser]

You can't expect a class to say each and every last point in FA. In the long run thats not going to make sense, a teacher standing there and explaining to you every last factoid in FA. Whats more important is that you cover the concepts and theory that FA covers. And like everyone said it may just be covered in another class. There is a lot of overlap

100% agree with this. Your classes SHOULD cover all the high yield material for the steps.

Yes, should being the operative word here. I know some schools have now upped the ante by using NBME end-of-course shelf exams, course exams tailored by the professor using the NBME's central bank, etc.

I agree with you for the OP. You can not expect your basic science professors to spoonfeed you every line of First Aid. This isn't the Caribbean where the first 2 years is virtually a 2 year board preparation course. Some medical schools have a culture of not wanting to "teach to the test" and consider it beneath them to do so. It sucks, but it's the reality. They teach what they feel is important and reviewing for boards is for you to figure out - a sort of twisted joke in "Life Long Learning" -- you'll hear this term often esp. in MS-3.

If you're feeling especially gunnery, you could bring First Aid with you to class after lecture and go up to the professor and explain that you were reading a certain fact in First Aid (appropriate to that current block/lecture) and maybe they could help explain to you what they are getting at. @operaman might have better tips.

 

[dextor2003]

Yes, should being the operative word here. I know some schools have now upped the ante by using NBME end-of-course shelf exams, course exams tailored by the professor using the NBME's central bank, etc.

I agree with you for the OP. You can not expect your basic science professors to spoonfeed you every line of First Aid. This isn't the Caribbean where the first 2 years is virtually a 2 year board preparation course. Some medical schools have a culture of not wanting to "teach to the test" and consider it beneath them to do so. It sucks, but it's the reality. They teach what they feel is important and reviewing for boards is for you to figure out - a sort of twisted joke in "Life Long Learning" -- you'll hear this term often esp. in MS-3.

If you're feeling especially gunnery, you could bring First Aid with you to class after lecture and go up to the professor and explain that you were reading a certain fact in First Aid (appropriate to that current block/lecture) and maybe they could help explain to you what they are getting at. @operaman might have better tips.

Fair enough. Now I've just been trying to read the relevant sections in FA and annotate any extra stuff into my class notes, so if nothing else, at least I'm exposed to it before dedicated time. Thanks for the feedback guys (or girls)

 

[Jabbed]

If you're feeling especially gunnery, you could bring First Aid with you to class after lecture and go up to the professor and explain that you were reading a certain fact in First Aid (appropriate to that current block/lecture) and maybe they could help explain to you what they are getting at. @operaman might have better tips.

Ah.. the look on a PhD's face when you walk up and ask him to explain First Aid material to you. Priceless.

 

[DermViser]

Ah.. the look on a PhD's face when you walk up and ask him to explain First Aid material to you. Priceless.

Yes, it's only for the most daring of gunners. Definitely not to raise your hand in class and point out loud for him to explain unless u want to be on his hit list.

 

[OCDEMS]

I don’t remember any time where a FA subject wasn’t covered in its entirety. Overall, I’d say we cover everything in FA and then much, much more. You could not study FA and do well on our exams. Pass, maybe, but I’d imagine you’d be scraping by. A lot of our professors like to go into specifics, especially if it’s their “thing.”

Every system is different. There is a rough outline, but the personalities and styles of the individual academic departments and specialties running things can really be a drag. I’ve found some systems to be very conceptually based with an emphasis on knowing the big concepts very well (mastery). Others boil down to virtually memorizing the PPTs, knowing every conceivable drug ever presented or spoken about, etc. Personalities are a big deal. I’ve had professors who basically get their jollies asking impossible questions that require true mastery of a concept and, in some regards, maybe a bit of clinical background. There is a reason why many of the highest performers have a clinical background.

Finally, I don’t see a problem with a school focusing on boards, as long as its not at the expense of producing drones. The game is the game and schools that want to place their students into good residencies get that. I’d imagine that your top 50 medical schools can afford to go off topic because A) Caliber of student and B) They’ve prepaid credibility for each of their students come residency applications, i.e. reputation counts. I always appreciate a professor who finishes a lectures with a few slides of “This is what I covered that is historically high-yield on boards.” I always take note of that material and study it just a bit harder.

 

[DermViser]

I don’t remember any time where a FA subject wasn’t covered in its entirety. Overall, I’d say we cover everything in FA and then much, much more. You could not study FA and do well on our exams. Pass, maybe, but I’d imagine you’d be scraping by. A lot of our professors like to go into specifics, especially if it’s their “thing.”

This highly varies by the medical school and isn't always the case. A student who goes to a top tier school has an advantage in the process. A top-tier student with a 230 will be treated differently than a middle-tier to low-tier with a 230 in terms of match capabilities. I realize, it's not "fair" in SDN world, but it's true.