Clearing up some misconceptions about applying to residency as a Carib-grad

[nshams]

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People on this board have this assumption that Carib-IMGs match less compared to FMG from India/Pakistan/Timbuktu/Britain/Australia. Not true.

Here's the hard data:

Established Carib schools Ross/St George/AUC/Saba: match rate 75%.
Newer Caribbean schools AUA/St James/MUA: match rate 70%
FMG(foreign citizens): match rate 40%.

This is because of 2 reasons:
1. FMGs need visas. Most Carib-grads who're applying in USA are American citizens and don't need visa.
2. Carib-grads complete 3rd & 4th year in US teaching hospitals. That means they have 2 years of US clinical experience with US LoRs to show for it. The majority of residency programs say in the application requirements: Need US clinical experience.

SDN is misinformed. (In large part because SDN-members are mostly AMGs who tend to be biased against Carib-grads).

Disclaimer: I'm not encouraging anyone to go Carib. Just stating the facts about residency as they stand right now.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Just out of curiosity, what are the attrition rates for FMG schools vs Carribean schools? Don't Carribean schools make you apply to be eligible for the match?

 

[Raryn]

People on this board have this assumption that Carib-IMGs match less compared to FMG from India/Pakistan/Timbuktu/Britain/Australia. Not true.

Here's the hard data:

Established Carib schools Ross/St George/AUC/Saba: match rate 75%.
Newer Caribbean schools AUA/St James/MUA: match rate 70%
FMG(foreign citizens): match rate 40%.

This is because of 2 reasons:
1. FMGs need visas. Most Carib-grads who're applying in USA are American citizens and don't need visa.
2. Carib-grads complete 3rd & 4th year in US teaching hospitals. That means they have 2 years of US clinical experience with US LoRs to show for it. The majority of residency programs say in the application requirements: Need US clinical experience.

SDN is misinformed. (In large part because SDN-members are mostly AMGs who tend to be biased against Carib-grads).

Disclaimer: I'm not encouraging anyone to go Carib. Just stating the facts about residency as they stand right now.

That's funny. Somehow if you average the 75% match rate of some Carib schools with the 70% match rate of others you get a... 53.1% match rate? Mind you, that is better than the 47.6% match rate of non-US citizen FMGs, but the difference isn't anywhere near what you're saying.

Oh, and not to mention that 53.1% match rate is of the people the schools actually allow to graduate. A good 30+% of the students were kicked out before that point because they weren't allowed to take step 1 (or didn't pass step 1). Ditto with step 2. Or with difficulty finding clinical rotations.

Edit: Since you like "hard data" here's a link to the actual stuff put out by the NRMP. Table 4.

 

[nshams]

That's funny. Somehow if you average the 75% match rate of some Carib schools with the 70% match rate of others you get a... 53.1% match rate? Mind you, that is better than the 47.6% match rate of non-US citizen FMGs, but the difference isn't anywhere near what you're saying.

There are a LOT (lot) of Carib-medical schools. I used 7 specific schools because I know their match rates.

There are other Carib-schools outside of AUC/Ross/SGU/Saba & AUA/St James/MUA. The students who end up at these 6 schools tend to have more $ or better access to loans. So these schools have better rotation sites. These 7 specific schools also have better student quality - higher undergrad grades/MCAT which translates into better USMLE-scores compared to other carib schools.

Adding all students from AUC/Ross/SGU/Saba/AUA/St James/MUA who're applying to match every year together, you're looking at an applicant pool of about 2000-2500 Carib-grads who had good US clinical experience who're also American citizens.

From the table you've helpfully provided, there are about 5000 US-IMGs going into match every year.

Here's some other information of where those other applicants are coming from:
1. Some come from other, less established caribbean schools.
2. There are # of graduates from around the world (India/Pakistan/Nigeria etc) who have come to USA, worked hard for years outside medicine, finally have permanent resident status & enough money to apply to residency. These people are applying many years after medical school finished & without US Clinical Experience but as US-IMGs.

They unfortunately have a harder time getting into residency than Carib-grads who're typically 4th years when they apply with 2years of clinical exposure in USA.

Oh, and not to mention that 53.1% match rate is of the people the schools actually allow to graduate. A good 30+% of the students were kicked out before that point because they weren't allowed to take step 1 (or didn't pass step 1). Ditto with step 2. Or with difficulty finding clinical rotations.

The 30% attrition rate is probably an understatement. At Ross, I think the # is closer to 50%.

Edit: Since you like "hard data" here's a link to the actual stuff put out by the NRMP. Table 4.

I do like hard data. But I also like it when it's interpreted properly.

Again, I'm not encouraging anyone to go on the Carib-route. I'm just stating facts as they are.

 

[Ronin786]

I haven't seen anybody claim that carib grads have a worse match rate than FMGs. The NRMP data supports that their is a difference in USIMGs vs non-US IMGs. For the most part, both IMGs and FMGs are thrown in the same boat.

 

[nshams]

I haven't seen anybody claim that carib grads have a worse match rate than FMGs.

You haven't been paying attention 😉

The NRMP data supports that their is a difference in USIMGs vs non-US IMGs. For the most part, both IMGs and FMGs are thrown in the same boat.

But they're not in the same boat. US-IMGs from big Carib schools tend to do significantly better than FMGs with permanent visas/US-citizenship who graduated from India/Pakistan/etc many years ago without US Clinical experience.

I thought sharing this info with you might be interesting, but it's academic debate for most of you. You're not going to be working with Carib-grads or FMGs, so it really doesn't mean anything.

 

[KnuxNole]

You haven't been paying attention 😉



But they're not in the same boat. US-IMGs from big Carib schools tend to do significantly better than FMGs with permanent visas/US-citizenship who graduated from India/Pakistan/etc many years ago without US Clinical experience.

I thought sharing this info with you might be interesting, but it's academic debate for most of you. You're not going to be working with Carib-grads or FMGs, so it really doesn't mean anything.

They will.

They can very easily have an FMG/Carib grad as their chief resident/senior, co-interns, attendings, consulting physicians(or physicians who are consulting you).

 

[551151]

Reality: AMG's get recruited over IMG's. That will not change. The debate is pointless