Clerkships and Surgical Residency Questions

[bigchoader]

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First, I have heard that to come back to the US and be able to apply for and enter residency, you must have had at least 72 weeks of clerkship training. Do UK schools provide this? Do Irish Schools provide this?

Next, I have heard that it is basically next to impossible to get a surgical residency in the USA after graduating from a foreign medical school. Is this true? Does anyone know about the experience of such Irish and UK med grads?

Finally, I know that you have to have lived in the UK (not sure for Ireland) for 4 years before you can claim legal residency (anyone know about Ireland). If this is true, would that make acquiring residencies in their countries alot easier for a North American?

Thanks

Ross

 

[ocularphd]

Hi Ross,

I can only answer your questions on legal residency. In the UK, you can obtain Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) which is essentially permanent residency (PR) after 5 years on a HSMP (highly skilled migrant visa). There are other methods of getting UK ILR depending on your orignial visa. eg. student(10 years)/spouse(married to a UK citizen, 2 year wait) etc.

Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to get any medical jobs in the UK if you need a work permit. Only UK and EU (european union) citizens don't need a work permit in the UK.

As regards to Ireland immigration, one must be WORKING in Ireland for 5 years before they can apply for naturalization. Years in medical school are not counted. Also, irish immigration decision times are painfully slow. A friend of mine applied 3 years ago, and is still waiting for a decision.

Regarding clerkship times, irish medical school final 3 years are clinical....but it depends on the definition of 72 weeks. Certainly, you will undergo more than 72 weeks of clinical clerkship but not necessarily in surgery alone as you will rotate through all main specialities throughout medical school years. It will be the same for UK schools.

 

[leorl]

regarding clerkship training, you will have ample training, plus the electives you arrange yourself in the summers. Basically everywhere in the world, you have to have 8 weeks in your core rotations (gen med, gen surgery, psychiatry, paediatrics, obs & gyne) so that's 40 weeks right there. Then you have other electives like ophthalmology, ENT, GP so that's another 8-12 weeks. And then you have other rotations scheduled which are 4 weeks each. So you won't have to worry about that so much.

General surgery is meant to be quite difficult to get into. It's not reached the "impossible" stage yet. I can't tell you much because I don't know anyone who's wanted to go into general surgery. I believe one of my colleagues tried to get into gen surg last year, and wasn't successful. However, he also applied extremely late so shot himself in the foot. What would be important if you definitely wanted to go into gen surg is to do 2-3 electives in the US in it (or in some surgery) and maybe one in Ireland, so you can get good recs.

And just to reiterate, you cannot use your school years to apply for residency. It's not like other countries.

 

[deleted21609]

I know of three people from mym school who got into categorical surgical residencies in the US and one who agree to do research in surgery so that she would later get a spot. They were all very strong applicants with high test scores. Hopefully you will fall into that category too. If not, it is supposedly easy to get a preliminary surgical residency for 1-2 years. You would have no guarantee of ever being able to complete your residency, but if you work hard and impress your faculty, I think it is likely that you could obtain an advanced position. Something like 25% of surgical residents drop out and enter other specialties (I've heard), so there are always advanced positions available. Then again, you could work like heck for two years then get nothing and have to go into another specialty, but hopefully not.