Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine: What do you all really think?

[Electrophys]

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So...whats the lowdown on this program? I was accepted recently and I was really impressed...but it seems kinda risky...all that PBL with no history of how well students do on the USLME or residency matches.

However, I think its a great alternative for people who don't want to spend all that time doing the MD/PhD (like myself) but still want research experience and credential...

Also, I think the Cleveland Clinic name seems to go far in the medical community.

What do you all think? Would you go here over an established top 10 program? Where do you all see this program in 4-5 years?

 

[bewitched1081]

i don't like the fact that you don't get a degree for the extra work that you do. i mean i don't doubt that their program is excellent, but in this world a degree seems to be the only thing that gives any validity to one's education.

 

[Electrophys]

i don't like the fact that you don't get a degree for the extra work that you do. i mean i don't doubt that their program is excellent, but in this world a degree seems to be the only thing that gives any validity to one's education.

I talked to a few people and they said they're working on MD/MS programs...so you can get an MS. How an MS compares to a PhD in the medical community, I personally don't know...but I think you can definately get a Masters in almost any area you want.

Were you accepted too? Are you considering the offer?

 

[skoaner]

So...whats the lowdown on this program? I was accepted recently and I was really impressed...but it seems kinda risky...all that PBL with no history of how well students do on the USLME or residency matches.

However, I think its a great alternative for people who don't want to spend all that time doing the MD/PhD (like myself) but still want research experience and credential...

Also, I think the Cleveland Clinic name seems to go far in the medical community.

What do you all think? Would you go here over an established top 10 program? Where do you all see this program in 4-5 years?

I really liked the program when I interviewed there. If I get accepted, I'll turn down the top 10 invites I got. It just seemed to be an extremely good fit for what I am interested in, and a much more personal education.

 

[jtown]

I really liked the program when I interviewed there. If I get accepted, I'll turn down the top 10 invites I got. It just seemed to be an extremely good fit for what I am interested in, and a much more personal education.

the personal education is what really resonated with me... i'm on hold and i'd really really like to be admitted...
likewise, i'm interested in exploring research more, but i know i'm not interested in doing labwork later in my career, but it'd be nice to have a full exposure to medicine like they do at cclcm.
and as for not getting another degree for the extra work, i think of it like this:
you do get paid for that 5th year and whether or not the experience is noted by a few additional letters at the end of your name later on, you will have had stupendous training and be able to do anything you want to. if you really really want to, stay for another 2-3 years and whip out some phd work... sure, that's kind of cavalier to say it that way, but in the long run, you're working towards your goals... what else can you do?

 

[flamingo]

Hi! I was also accepted at CCLCM, but I'm pretty sure I won't attend. I am more concerned about the risk of participating in a brand-new program than I am about not receiving a second degree. While their curriculum sounds quite innovative, I think I'm better suited to a more traditional program, with lectures, regular exams, etc.

I've been accepted at CCLCM and CWRU so far, and I'm strongly leaning towards CWRU. I loved the Case program, and I'm not too keen on being a guinea pig at CCLCM. And now that CWRU is affiliated with Cleveland Clinic, Case students can easily do their rotations at Cleveland Clinic, which is definitely a huge bonus.

So...whats the lowdown on this program? I was accepted recently and I was really impressed...but it seems kinda risky...all that PBL with no history of how well students do on the USLME or residency matches.

However, I think its a great alternative for people who don't want to spend all that time doing the MD/PhD (like myself) but still want research experience and credential...

Also, I think the Cleveland Clinic name seems to go far in the medical community.

What do you all think? Would you go here over an established top 10 program? Where do you all see this program in 4-5 years?

 

[noalarms23]

Hi! I was also accepted at CCLCM, but I'm pretty sure I won't attend. I am more concerned about the risk of participating in a brand-new program than I am about not receiving a second degree. While their curriculum sounds quite innovative, I think I'm better suited to a more traditional program, with lectures, regular exams, etc.

I've been accepted at CCLCM and CWRU so far, and I'm strongly leaning towards CWRU. I loved the Case program, and I'm not too keen on being a guinea pig at CCLCM. And now that CWRU is affiliated with Cleveland Clinic, Case students can easily do their rotations at Cleveland Clinic, which is definitely a huge bonus.

i like the idea of people who were accepted to CCLCM but having doubts (about the program or its future or their future) WITHDRAWING themselves from consideration. I can understand the concept of having doubts about a program, but if you are accepted and you are still having doubts, please remove yourself and kindly turn down their offers of acceptance so that those of us without doubts may have a shot. I hope that this isn't a larger issue of those of you with >1 acceptances taking this all for granted. There are a lot of people out there who would kill themselves for ONE acceptance or ONE interview, so please do the rest of us a favor and withdraw or decline acceptances/interviews if you are having such doubts. I mean, take your time to make your decisions and all, but the quicker you make them the quicker a student of similar (or even greater) aptitude and enthusiasm may be up for consideration. 🙂

 

[Jason110]

i like the idea of people who were accepted to CCLCM but having doubts (about the program or its future or their future) WITHDRAWING themselves from consideration. I can understand the concept of having doubts about a program, but if you are accepted and you are still having doubts, please remove yourself and kindly turn down their offers of acceptance so that those of us without doubts may have a shot. I hope that this isn't a larger issue of those of you with >1 acceptances taking this all for granted. There are a lot of people out there who would kill themselves for ONE acceptance or ONE interview, so please do the rest of us a favor and withdraw or decline acceptances/interviews if you are having such doubts. I mean, take your time to make your decisions and all, but the quicker you make them the quicker a student of similar (or even greater) aptitude and enthusiasm may be up for consideration. 🙂

I think what you've said is outrageous. I recently interviewed at CCLCM and I have not heard back yet. Those with an acceptance and still have doubts are allowed to have doubts. What happens if the accepted applicant can resolve their doubts?

They have a right to doubt the program. But since they have an acceptance, they also have a right to think about where they would like to attend. And even if they know that they'll unlikely attend CCLCM, they still have until April to decide. So please, I urge you to give them the time they need.

And what says that their spot will be taken up by a student of "similar (or greater) aptitude and enthusiasm." You don't know what goes on in the AdCom room.

Jason

 

[junathon]

I think what you've said is outrageous. I recently interviewed at CCLCM and I have not heard back yet. Those with an acceptance and still have doubts are allowed to have doubts. What happens if the accepted applicant can resolve their doubts?

They have a right to doubt the program. But since they have an acceptance, they also have a right to think about where they would like to attend. And even if they know that they'll unlikely attend CCLCM, they still have until April to decide. So please, I urge you to give them the time they need.

And what says that their spot will be taken up by a student of "similar (or greater) aptitude and enthusiasm." You don't know what goes on in the AdCom room.

Jason

i'm waiting for all the financial aid offers. 🙄 so should u!

 

[noalarms23]

I think what you've said is outrageous. I recently interviewed at CCLCM and I have not heard back yet. Those with an acceptance and still have doubts are allowed to have doubts. What happens if the accepted applicant can resolve their doubts?

They have a right to doubt the program. But since they have an acceptance, they also have a right to think about where they would like to attend. And even if they know that they'll unlikely attend CCLCM, they still have until April to decide. So please, I urge you to give them the time they need.

And what says that their spot will be taken up by a student of "similar (or greater) aptitude and enthusiasm." You don't know what goes on in the AdCom room.

Jason

it's not outrageous. you misunderstand, i clearly said both 1) i understand that they may have doubts and 2) they should take their time to make their decisions.
and if they think it is "highly unlikely" that they'll attend CCLCM, as i've read from two posters now, I don't think it's unacceptable of me to say that they should decline their offer if they know they are going to attend another school. and yes, they have until April, but if you know your decision now, why not make it, both as a courtesy to the school and to other applicants. i say this mostly with regard to those who have more doubt about the program than excitement. and i don't know what goes on in the adcom room, which is why i said others "may" be up for consideration. i'd rather, and i would wager the Adcom would agree, that people who are excited about the program and really want to go to CCLCM would be the ones who are accepted and go, rather than those with significant doubts.

 

[chitown82]

hey, question about cclcm...i've been put on "hold" because they want to see my first semester grades (i'm a masters student)...so i was wondering how many people do they interview and since their class is so small, isn't it likely they will fill up before getting my grades (probably first week of jan)...

also, i have done a lot of great/substantial research but have not pushed for publications until recently (i know this is my fault)...is their measuring stick for the quality of one's research the amount of papers they have written?

thanks!

 

[flamingo]

The point at which I withdraw my application does not affect the total number of spots in the class. Whether I take my name off of the list now or in may, that spot is still going to someone else...the only difference is that he/she will have to wait a bit longer to hear a decision.

That being said, while I don't know if the program is right for me (it probably isn't), there are other factors preventing me from making my decision now:

1) Financial aid information. Perhaps you have enough $$ to pay for any med school you get into, but I am going to wait on financial aid packages before making any decisions.

2) Re-visit day in April. I interviewed at CCLCM in a week when I had interviews at 2 other schools, and for all I know, my negative impressions could have been due to all the stress, lack of sleep, who knows. So unless I hear back from one of my higher-ranked schools before then, I plan to attend the re-visit day with an open mind.

I'm sorry you're feeling anxious about the application process, but I do have every right to hold on to this acceptance. I wish you the best of luck.

~flamingo

it's not outrageous. you misunderstand, i clearly said both 1) i understand that they may have doubts and 2) they should take their time to make their decisions.
and if they think it is "highly unlikely" that they'll attend CCLCM, as i've read from two posters now, I don't think it's unacceptable of me to say that they should decline their offer if they know they are going to attend another school. and yes, they have until April, but if you know your decision now, why not make it, both as a courtesy to the school and to other applicants. i say this mostly with regard to those who have more doubt about the program than excitement. and i don't know what goes on in the adcom room, which is why i said others "may" be up for consideration. i'd rather, and i would wager the Adcom would agree, that people who are excited about the program and really want to go to CCLCM would be the ones who are accepted and go, rather than those with significant doubts.

 

[leechy]

I have to agree with flamingo and Jason here.
Noalarms, I sympathize with you (the waiting in this process is terrible) but to paraphrase the old adage: blame the admissions process, not the admitted individual. With financial aid and other major factors at stake, it's natural to want to wait to at least the point at which you know how much it's going to cost you. If I were in charge of this whole process, I'd definitely shorten the time it takes to hear back from places and try to lessen the waitlist madness that goes on in June and July. But unfortunately, I don't rule this universe. 🙁

 

[skoaner]

1) Financial aid information. Perhaps you have enough $$ to pay for any med school you get into, but I am going to wait on financial aid packages before making any decisions.

I don't imagine many applicants have enough money to pay outright for medical school themselves. If you're that worried about fin-aid, apply to and matriculate at your state school --they are there for the specific reason of providing affordable medical education for their residents. Private schools are necessarily more expensive. Either way, you're going to be sacked with ~$100k (give or take $50k) in debt. Whatsmore, even if you receive a generous package from a school like CCLCM, it requires an additional 5th year before you graduate. Thats 1 extra year of acquiring debt/interest/making a graduate stipend before you make your prospective future income to begin paying off loans. If you select a specialty where you're making $200k/year, the difference between $20k and $50k/year in tuition seems negligable.

I do agree, however, that if you feel you may not have had the best experience due to your interview circumstances you could potentially gain from the revisit day.

 

[medstylee]

hey, question about cclcm...i've been put on "hold" because they want to see my first semester grades (i'm a masters student)...so i was wondering how many people do they interview and since their class is so small, isn't it likely they will fill up before getting my grades (probably first week of jan)...

also, i have done a lot of great/substantial research but have not pushed for publications until recently (i know this is my fault)...is their measuring stick for the quality of one's research the amount of papers they have written?

thanks!

Hey - I interviewed last year (didn't get in though) and I remember Dr. Hutzler telling me that they interviewed around 200 people out of about 600-something applicants. I think they're probably going to interview the same number this year although they'll definitely have more applicants. by the way, to those who are talking about uncertain candidates withdrawing to give others chances... it doesn't really matter because no one who is on hold will be taken off the list until april anyway. at least, that's the way it worked last year.

Chitown, are you on-hold post-interview or pre? I'm just asking cause I'm in a masters program too and I haven't heard from CCLCM yet this year.

Thanks - Good luck.

 

[chitown82]

Hey - I interviewed last year (didn't get in though) and I remember Dr. Hutzler telling me that they interviewed around 200 people out of about 600-something applicants. I think they're probably going to interview the same number this year although they'll definitely have more applicants. by the way, to those who are talking about uncertain candidates withdrawing to give others chances... it doesn't really matter because no one who is on hold will be taken off the list until april anyway. at least, that's the way it worked last year.

Chitown, are you on-hold post-interview or pre? I'm just asking cause I'm in a masters program too and I haven't heard from CCLCM yet this year.

Thanks - Good luck.

pre-interview. i called them a few weeks after my application was complete and the lady on the phone said the committee was "impressed" with my app, and i should hear word from them within a few weeks...that was 6 weeks ago and still no word....not sure what to make of it.

 

[uclabruin2003]

pre-interview. i called them a few weeks after my application was complete and the lady on the phone said the committee was "impressed" with my app, and i should hear word from them within a few weeks...that was 6 weeks ago and still no word....not sure what to make of it.

Are you doing a one-year masters? Is it a post-bacc?

I am doing a two year masters and this is my second year....I have already been accepted. My masters is in health policy so its not a post-bacc. That sucks that you have to wait for your grades. Good luck.

 

[leechy]

also, i have done a lot of great/substantial research but have not pushed for publications until recently (i know this is my fault)...is their measuring stick for the quality of one's research the amount of papers they have written?

thanks!

a classmate of mine got in there recently, and she didn't have publications, though she had substantial research experience. so don't worry about the publishing part 🙂

 

[el_chavo]

I liked the program as well and would probably go over my current acceptance but I was placed on the "Hold List". the letter I have says they send out fewer accept letters than it would take to fill the class so theoretically some of the "hold list" people are just postponed "accept" people. Oh well, I guess we all have to wait until April.

 

[uclabruin2003]

In other threads….CCLCM has been described as the next up and coming revolution. Many on other threads have regarded CCLCM to be in the top 10 if not top 5 medical research schools. However, we all know that CCLCM is a part of Case…so CCLCM would never be ranked separately from Case (who cares about US News Worlds Reports anyways). Case right now is #24 but has been as high as 15 (?)

Has anyone heard of comments regarding the stature of CCLCM in the medical school world? How do admissions directors/deans from other schools regard this program? Any ideas from any residency directors?

 

[medstylee]

In other threads….CCLCM has been described as the next up and coming revolution. Many on other threads have regarded CCLCM to be in the top 10 if not top 5 medical research schools. However, we all know that CCLCM is a part of Case…so CCLCM would never be ranked separately from Case (who cares about US News Worlds Reports anyways). Case right now is #24 but has been as high as 15 (?)

Has anyone heard of comments regarding the stature of CCLCM in the medical school world? How do admissions directors/deans from other schools regard this program? Any ideas from any residency directors?

wow man, you really are all over every single thread about cclcm... it's good to see you're pumped about it - definitely a school that is worth shedding some enthusiasm over. congrats on the acceptance! um, in my opinion, there's really no way it will be able to gain an independent ranking until at least a few years from now. to have a ranking (meaning, mostly, usnews i guess), it has to have residency director scores and such and i don't really think it can garner those numbers until after it's provided a few graduating classes. that's what i can guess at least. also, i've talked to many doctors and researchers about the place (the lerner college - obviously everyone knows about cleveland clinic), and a lot have heard about it, but it seems to me that a lot of them are confused about what the program actually entails while others haven't even heard anything about it. so, i think, for now, it's just going to be considered, by those who give out the rankings, as part of case. just my opinion though.

 

[exmike]

the CCLCM/Case partnership is for a minimum of 10 years. The Clinic is not a degree granting institution so it must grant its MD degrees through case. The clinic must somehow obtain accrediation from the LCME to issue its own degrees, a process that is both tedious and time consuming. In addition, what I've heard is that the clinic needs to use Case resources to administer the clinical rotations for the CCLCM students, and that clinic students will be doing some rotations at Case hospitals. I believe the lerner grant allows for something like 12 more students at the clinic, but I dont believe they are going to up the enrollment anytime soon. In fact, the class size at case decreased by 13 to accomodate the Clinic students. In any case (no pun intended), The clinic program wont be separate from Case any time soon, and if it did, its ranking according to USNews would never be in the top 10 simply because the clinic is not a very large recipient of NIH grants compared to other medical schools (around $50 million/yr). Given the huge weight assigned to NIH grants by USNWR, there is no way the clinic can be ranked highly on its own (without Case's $200 million in NIH grants). In the end, the clinic and case are stronger together than they are apart. Hopefully it remains that way.

 

[uclabruin2003]

wow man, you really are all over every single thread about cclcm... it's good to see you're pumped about it - definitely a school that is worth shedding some enthusiasm over. congrats on the acceptance! um, in my opinion, there's really no way it will be able to gain an independent ranking until at least a few years from now. to have a ranking (meaning, mostly, usnews i guess), it has to have residency director scores and such and i don't really think it can garner those numbers until after it's provided a few graduating classes. that's what i can guess at least. also, i've talked to many doctors and researchers about the place (the lerner college - obviously everyone knows about cleveland clinic), and a lot have heard about it, but it seems to me that a lot of them are confused about what the program actually entails while others haven't even heard anything about it. so, i think, for now, it's just going to be considered, by those who give out the rankings, as part of case. just my opinion though.

yea. call me a fan of CCLCM. I am trying to learn about it as much as possible. I dont want to make a mistake! Anyone a current student on here? Would love to hear your point of view!

So far...Im not sure if I would trade it for any other program ha. I am def excited about revisit day! I wonder how the whole money thing works? Does anyone have a clue?

 

[medstylee]

yea. call me a fan of CCLCM. I am trying to learn about it as much as possible. I dont want to make a mistake! Anyone a current student on here? Would love to hear your point of view!

So far...Im not sure if I would trade it for any other program ha. I am def excited about revisit day! I wonder how the whole money thing works? Does anyone have a clue?

Dig through last year's posts - I believe a few posters ended up receiving some pretty sweet financial packages. Don't quote me on this, but I believe some of this money was separate from those Physician Investigator Grants (which are need based only). Oh, also, there was a bit of information posted by CCLCM acceptees on the Case acceptance thread (shouldn't be hard to find, I believe there were over 500 posts on it). Best of luck!

 

[uclabruin2003]

Dig through last year's posts - I believe a few posters ended up receiving some pretty sweet financial packages. Don't quote me on this, but I believe some of this money was separate from those Physician Investigator Grants (which are need based only). Oh, also, there was a bit of information posted by CCLCM acceptees on the Case acceptance thread (shouldn't be hard to find, I believe there were over 500 posts on it). Best of luck!

oops i didnt mean finanicial aid info. i meant more about the costs of revisit day! but thanks for the info anyways....late

 

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[junathon]

i just read about cclcm's second look weekend from last year's thread and apparently its a 2 day ordeal where they pay for all your expenses and $100 toward your airfare. lets hope they pick up all the airfare this time around! 😀 😀

by the way, i think this is the best program out of the places i've interviewed so far! can't wait to take a second look. congrats to everyone who's been accepted!! 👍 👍