Clinical director salary

[MDPsychologist]

How much would a psychologist clinical director salary be? Would they earn 100k or so? What are psychologists primarily doing therapy and seeing 5 patients a week making as part of group practices/larger groups/companies.

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[summerbabe]

The largest single employer of psychologists is the VA and the absolute lowest that a GS-13, step 1 licensed psychologist (e.g., somebody straight out of posdoc who has zero admin resonsibilities & lives in a region of the US that the fed govt doesn't believe needs any special cost adjustments) can make currently is $103,409 and this can rise incrementally to $134,435 with experience.

And that figure goes up in areas with higher cost of living adjusted for. And many VAs are also providing special salary rates to retain/recruit people that can go way beyond that previous scale.

In the VA system, a clinical director is probably the equivalent of a GS-14, which starts at $122,198 (again, assuming no prior experience at this salary/duty level & being located in a low cost of living region & no special salary rate bump) and tops out at $158,860 with experience.

I've only ever worked at the VA but unless you're in a state like Louisana or Missisippii, $100k for a clinical director seems low IMO.

 

[Sanman]

That really depends on how one defines clinical director and the associated responsibilities. However, I agree 100k is low.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Also agreed with the above. A lot depends on what "clinical director" means and entails. But if I were coming straight out of fellowship right now, $100k would be about the minimum I'd be looking for as an entry-level, front-line clinician. If it's a mid-career position, particularly with significant management components, I'd expect at least $150-175k.

If a psychologist is seeing 30 therapy patients/week, unless the no-show rate is horrendous, they should definitely be earning north of $100k. This is what I'd pay someone coming straight out of grad school for a 100% clinical position, depending on the proposed schedule.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

10 years ago I think that figure would be correct. maybe a bit higher (115ish). Now though I wouldn't touch an admin job for anything less than 130. You often don't have protections, more responsibilities, and potentially be more than 40 a week. Plus in some systems if you are a director it can limit the type of private work you do on the side (at least in my state and my previous one).

 

[Ollie123]

Narrowing the setting might help people give feedback.

I've seen clinical director titles used for someone in a private practice of like 3 people.
I've seen clinical director used for the head of a gigantic 25+ faculty (+ staff/trainees) world-renowned specialty clinic.

Salary range somewhere between 75k and 250k+.

 

[PsyDr]

It needs to be $200k.

The proposed schedule:

9AM-Noon: See your first 3 patients
Noon-1PM: Lunch
1PM-4PM: See your next 3 patients
4PM-5PM: Every piece of admin work encompassed by your clinical director job.

The real schedule:

8AM-9AM: Feverishly try to handle emails and admin work. Get yelled at for not seeing enough patients and/or doing enough admin work.
9AM-Noon: See patients and try to cram some emails in between patients until you're burnt out.
12-12:15: Eat lunch at your desk while crying
12:15-1PM: Do admin work, go to some C-suite lunch meeting
1:05-4PM: See patients while doing admin work in between sessions, realize you haven't peed in 7 hrs.
4PM-6PM: Do admin work.
6PM-9PM: Create a powerpoint from home.

 

[Sanman]

It needs to be $200k.

The real schedule:

8AM-9AM: Feverishly try to handle emails and admin work. Get yelled at for not seeing enough patients and/or doing enough admin work.
9AM-Noon: See patients and try to cram some emails in between patients until you're burnt out.
12-12:15: Eat lunch at your desk while crying
12:15-1PM: Do admin work, go to some C-suite lunch meeting
1:05-4PM: See patients while doing admin work in between sessions, realize you haven't peed in 7 hrs.
4PM-6PM: Do admin work.
6PM-9PM: Create a powerpoint from home.

Ahh, I see you were spying on me at my last job. Though, I am not a big crier.

 

[MDPsychologist]

The job is in a public company. Some of the responsibilities involve clinician recruitment/retention, seeing 4-5 patients a week, advocacy for clinicians and clinical supervision/support to clinicians.

 

[PsyDr]

The job is in a public company. Some of the responsibilities involve clinician recruitment/retention, seeing 4-5 patients a week, advocacy for clinicians and clinical supervision/support to clinicians.

How much would a psychologist clinical director salary be? Would they earn 100k or so? What are psychologists primarily doing therapy and seeing 30 patients a week making as part of group practices/larger groups/companies.

Did you mean 30 patients A MONTH in your original post? Because 30/month and 30/week are different things.

 

[MDPsychologist]

Did you mean 30 patients A MONTH in your original post? Because 30/month and 30/week are different things.

I am sorry it is 5 patients/week. So about 20 patients/month. Edited my post above.

 

[smalltownpsych]

My last job as a clinical director I was paid 130k. I did have quite a bit of experience going into it though. My first clinical director job when I first got licensed back in 2010 was 80k. I negotiated much harder the second time around and it was mainly about the opportunity and experience the first time.

 

[Sanman]

I am sorry it is 5 patients/week. So about 20 patients/month. Edited my post above.

Well? That's a big difference. If you want to limit your clinical work, it is certainly an option. Though, it may still be a lowball offer based on billables you are managing. However, if you don't have any management experience thus far and want less clinical work...

 

[summerbabe]

The job is in a public company. Some of the responsibilities involve clinician recruitment/retention, seeing 4-5 patients a week, advocacy for clinicians and clinical supervision/support to clinicians.

They probably should be making a good chunk more than the psychologists that they are supervising.

And unless you’re in a low cost of living & well below the national median household income type of place, a frontline psychologist with up to 30 bookable hours a week should probably be starting at 100k and up depending on experience and more importantly, what other orgs in your area pay for psychologists.

So if you’re lowballing the clinical director position, you’re likely limiting the available talent in that hiring pool.

 

[ClinicalABA]

My last job as a clinical director I was paid 130k. I did have quite a bit of experience going into it though. My first clinical director job when I first got licensed back in 2010 was 80k. I negotiated much harder the second time around and it was mainly about the opportunity and experience the first time.

My experience was similar, and that was ~130k in 2011 dollars, so equivalent to ~175K in spending power equivalent today (though salaries in most fields have not kept up with inflation, and you probably should expect that it has in human services outside of VERY specialized settings). If you were to offer me today ANY job with administrative supervision responsibilities (especially over freaking psychologists!) for a salary of 100k, at best I'd have a good chuckle at your expense!

 

[MCParent]

Until recently, I was one of the most senior psychologists in a top-tier academic medical center in Manhattan/NYC. We had an APA-accredited pre-doc, and a robust postdoctoral training program. Brand new post-docs who completed their 2 year fellowships were occasionally hired as new staff for around $85-90k. With about 3-5 years of experience, they could eventually transition into a supervisory/clinical director role, with salaries topping out at $100-115k.

Some of these salaries are shocking. Supervisory role in manhattan paying $115k?? My god.

 

[Sanman]

Some of these salaries are shocking. Supervisory role in manhattan paying $115k?? My god.

Pretty common there sadly and there are no shortage of takers. One of the main reasons I left. Though many who these positions often had a partner in finance or tech to help out.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm not even engaging in a job conversation with another entity unless that salary floor isn't at least 150k. Who is accepting these positions at like 100k?

 

[ClinicalABA]

I'd consider a 100K base salary that a) did not include any administrative responsibilities; b) had a minimum required billable hours that I could meet in 3 standard 9-hour workdays; c) included financial incentives for exceeding minimum billable requirements; d) allowed me to engage in other income generating activities (e.g., teaching; consultation that didn't directly compete with services offered by that agency). In the case of c and d, the combined earning potential would put me in the vicinity of that 150k range. Added flexibility for things like paying for all my licenses/CEUs, conference attendance, etc. Additionally, it would have to allow me to live and work in a place that that salary would allow me to live the extravagant ranch house, used Tacoma, paid subscription to the 1st AND 2nd tier streaming services (e.g., Netflix AND Peacock) lifestyle that I have come accustomed to.

 

[Sanman]

I'd consider a 100K base salary that a) did not include any administrative responsibilities; b) had a minimum required billable hours that I could meet in 3 standard 9-hour workdays; c) included financial incentives for exceeding minimum billable requirements; d) allowed me to engage in other income generating activities (e.g., teaching; consultation that didn't directly compete with services offered by that agency). In the case of c and d, the combined earning potential would put me in the vicinity of that 150k range. Added flexibility for things like paying for all my licenses/CEUs, conference attendance, etc. Additionally, it would have to allow me to live and work in a place that that salary would allow me to live the extravagant ranch house, used Tacoma, paid subscription to the 1st AND 2nd tier streaming services (e.g., Netflix AND Peacock) lifestyle that I have come accustomed to.

Whoa, big dreams sir

 

[ClinicalABA]

Whoa, big dreams sir

Life is a HELL of a lot easier when you're a simple person and your dreams match who you are!

 

[Sanman]

Life is a HELL of a lot easier when your a simple person and your dreams match who you are!

Very much agreed. Still, I think if we are dreaming, maybe find a place that allows you to get a new Tacoma 😎.

 

[Sanman]

I'm not even engaging in a job conversation with another entity unless that salary floor isn't at least 150k. Who is accepting these positions at like 100k?

Midcareer, I think $150k is very reasonable. Not sure how much experience they are looking for here. I am assuming this in Maryland based on the OPs username, so not exactly a low cost of living area and one of the higher paying regions, iirc

 

[ClinicalABA]

Very much agreed. Still, I think if we are dreaming, maybe find a place that allows you to get a new Tacoma 😎.

The one I got works just fine! It's almost paid for, at which point I may spring for a subscription to Paramount Plus or something like that.

 

[Sanman]

The one I got works just fine! It's almost paid for, at which point I may spring for a subscription to Paramount Plus or something like that.

I recommend the paramount plus subscription. Can watch the Superbowl and they got me with Picard!

 

[Freud’sMommy]

I'm not even engaging in a job conversation with another entity unless that salary floor isn't at least 150k. Who is accepting these positions at like 100k?

If psych grads were good at/cared about math then they would've chosen another career or opened their own practice. 🤓

 

[Sanman]

If psych grads were good at/cared about math then they would've chosen another career or opened their own practice. 🤓

It's because I am good at math that I have the job I have.

 

[Ollie123]

I've just never been able to make the math work when looking at jobs in high cost-of-living regions. For almost any field, the pay premium for living in expensive cities usually isn't enough to make up the difference. For healthcare as a whole (and psychology in particular) it seems particularly out-of-whack and you can frequently find higher pay outside those regions than you do within. I was eyeing a couple positions in California until I realized I'd need north of 200k just to break even.

I get why it is worth it for some folks (e.g., have family in the area, "live" for Broadway shows, or other very region-specific things). For me, the only thing I really feel like I'm missing out on is a functional public transit system.

 

[PsyDr]

These numbers are all shockingly low, even for a rural location. I can’t imagine living in staten island, or queens on those salaries.

Keep in mind: medicine gets paid MORE in rural locations.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

These numbers are all shockingly low, even for a rural location. I can’t imagine living in staten island, or queens on those salaries.

Keep in mind: medicine gets paid MORE in rural locations.

Agreed. If I were to go back to VA in an area with no locality adjustment, I'd be in the mid-120s. In NY, it'd be the mid-140s. And that's not considering any of the additional special rates VA has seemingly been offering lately. No way I'd take a management position for less than that, especially in a high-CoL area.

If I were hiring a front-line clinician straight out of grad school/fellowship, the minimum pay I'd want to offer would be $100k.

 

[MDPsychologist]

What sort of pay increases do psychologists get as they gain more experience in group practice settings (not owner)? I see a lot of 130-140k here, does it mean that people are seeing more than 30 clients per week? I got my licensure in 2019, so its been 5 years for me but I don't see much change in my salary, whether it was working as independent contractor or as a pseudo-W2 employee (that is fee-for-service). My annual salary has varied between 80-105k. Am I doing anything wrong? Is the only way to earn better is to have a PP of your own? Feeling disheartened. 🙁

 

[WisNeuro]

What sort of pay increases do psychologists get as they gain more experience in group practice settings (not owner)? I see a lot of 130-140k here, does it mean that people are seeing more than 30 clients per week?

Probably based more on what someone is bringing in as opposed to experience. Insurance pays the newly licensed provider the same as the 20+ year provider for the same codes. And, private pay is usually more about marketing and billing acumen than any actual skillset.

 

[oathkeeper]

Clinical director is a really broad title, and can vary from clinical responsibilities with consultation work to build a program or supervising multiple staff from different disciplines while doing more of the business end of things.

 

[smalltownpsych]

At about 100 dollars per session at 30 billable hours a week = about 150k Maybe some insurances pay a bit more, I don’t know. One insurance I looked at contracting with said they would pay 70% of the Medicare payment. It definitely caps out quickly and you still have to deduct expenses and benefits. I worked at a hospital where I made about 150k plus some very good benefits but I had to work my tail off to get that number including being on call. I then spent a few years as a clinical director for 130k. At ten years post license I started up my own practice and that’s what I have now. I paid myself 50k in salary and drew out 30k last year. Don’t have to pay taxes on the 30k because that was all paying back startup expenses. Next year I am projecting to net a bit over 120k after my salary and all other expenses.

 

[Sanman]

What sort of pay increases do psychologists get as they gain more experience in group practice settings (not owner)? I see a lot of 130-140k here, does it mean that people are seeing more than 30 clients per week? I got my licensure in 2019, so its been 5 years for me but I don't see much change in my salary, whether it was working as independent contractor or as a pseudo-W2 employee (that is fee-for-service). My annual salary has varied between 80-105k. Am I doing anything wrong? Is the only way to earn better is to have a PP of your own? Feeling disheartened. 🙁

You are asking the wrong questions. Every employer pays you the exact same salary...as little as they can get away with paying you.

I find that private groups, companies and hospitals tend to keep pace with each other. The Dept of Veterans Affairs tends to pay more in my area, and those running their own practice make the most.

A number of years ago, when I was in your shoes as a young clinical director making on the higher end of your income, I put an application into my local VA hospital and got the job. They were offering me more money for less responsibility. I put that offer in front of my employer and asked them if they were willing to significantly increase my salary to compensate for my responsibilities or I was going to leave. They couldn't pay me more, so I work at the VA. The VA gives step raises with years worked to all employees and cost of living increases. So now, my baseline for a new job offer is my current VA salary.

I am a solid clinician, but clinical skill has little to do with salary negotiations other than current employers wanting to keep you. Beyond that, my business skills have taken me much further in my career than any clinical acumen.

 

[PsyDr]

What sort of pay increases do psychologists get as they gain more experience in group practice settings (not owner)? I see a lot of 130-140k here, does it mean that people are seeing more than 30 clients per week? I got my licensure in 2019, so its been 5 years for me but I don't see much change in my salary, whether it was working as independent contractor or as a pseudo-W2 employee (that is fee-for-service). My annual salary has varied between 80-105k. Am I doing anything wrong? Is the only way to earn better is to have a PP of your own? Feeling disheartened. 🙁

1) There is no pay increase, secondary to experience. Pay increases with how much money you bring in.

2) The simplest way to increase your pay:
a. Track every 15 minutes of your day. I prefer to use a physical piece of paper, folded in half vertically. Make this a habit.
b. Write down what you are doing for each interval.
c. Read the CPT codes for a few weekends. There is a CPT code for everything, including email and record review. Learn "incident to", H&B, etc.
d. Start writing down CPT codes for each interval. When you don't know how to code something, look it up.
e. Many of those CPT codes will have no value, and don't apply to you. This doesn't matter. Start reporting that to whoever looks at your billing. Email them you are trying to track your stuff better, and that you're not sure if this is correct, and they may need to correct your billing before it goes out. This will save you from fraud allegations.
f. Kept track of your scheduling stuff, start looking at the CMS fee schedule for your CPTs, and refine your billing practices as you go (e.g., you start letting family members into the meeting so you can bill for it; you start a group therapy session, you use other codes appropriately).
g. This will increase your perceived billing significantly. It might not result in your institution making more money, but it will look like you are sending out a ton of collectables.
h. Negotiate for a higher salary (e.g., "I sent out $450k worth of billables last year. I would like a pay increase of X%"). Don't forget to use non-monetary things for negotiations.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

What sort of pay increases do psychologists get as they gain more experience in group practice settings (not owner)? I see a lot of 130-140k here, does it mean that people are seeing more than 30 clients per week? I got my licensure in 2019, so its been 5 years for me but I don't see much change in my salary, whether it was working as independent contractor or as a pseudo-W2 employee (that is fee-for-service). My annual salary has varied between 80-105k. Am I doing anything wrong? Is the only way to earn better is to have a PP of your own? Feeling disheartened. 🙁

As was said above, in an employed position, at the end of the day, it ultimately boils down to: 1) what you bring in via billables, and 2) out of that, how much (or little) you're willing to accept.

I'd suggest looking at your numbers for the past year. See how many patients you saw, what CPT codes you used, and what the going rates are for those CPT codes in your area; you can use Medicare's numbers for an approximation, as some insurances will probably pay more and others less. Do some pretty straightforward arithmetic and find out how much money you made (gross) for your employer in the past year. Then subtract your salary and your employer's expenses related to you (e.g., payroll taxes, benefits). If the remaining number is huge, you now at least have information to support requesting a raise or looking for a new job.

However, market factors also come into play. If you're the only psychologist in the area who's done that math while everyone else is willing to continually accept lowball salaries, you may be SOL unless you decided to go the private practice route (or find a very employee-friendly employer).

I've only ever had employed jobs at VA, and as was said above, those raises are basically automatic based on duration of employment. In other systems, I suspect raises may still occur at regular intervals for COL, but the remainder of changes in pay may reflect things like productivity incentives (e.g., a % of money brought in, or flat-rate bonus amounts, after hitting certain productivity goals), extra grant money being brought in for those with research lines, and/or side gig income.

Edit: Also, PsyDr beat me to it, but with more and better information.

 

[PsySeeker]

The place I did my postdoc, had maybe two psychologists, a part time psychiatrist, a few master's level licensed folks, 1 to 3 psych residents, and maybe 4 to 6 prac students depending on the semester. Upon approaching licensure I was offered $50k per year flat with no benefits to be clinical director with 25 to 30 clinical hours per week. I indignantly protested and (naively) made a spreadsheet at the owners request showing how the position easily justified at 150k to 200k plus and how 50k was utterly nonsensical. They ended up revising the offer to $70k without benefits (which I didn't need and was supposed to allow them to drive the salary higher) a couple months later.

I started my own practice while seeing patients there on contract. Once they tried to cut my split from 70 to 60 because I was seeing "too many patients" (they did not have enough providers to even meet contractural demands at the time, but the owner seemingly wanted more folks funneled to the free to very cheap labor, I mean, er, eh, trainees, even though they were already beyond capacity and unable/unwilling to take on more). I bailed.

I found the whole situation to be flabbergasting to offensive to borderline traumatic. I don't know if I should be upset or grateful that I was inspired to never work for anyone else again (much better off in PP, ha!)!

So yeah, there are some really surprisingly bad offers out there. Don't take them.

 

[surviving2021]

Until recently, I was one of the most senior psychologists in a top-tier academic medical center in Manhattan/NYC. We had an APA-accredited pre-doc, and a robust postdoctoral training program. Brand new post-docs who completed their 2 year fellowships were occasionally hired as new staff for around $85-90k. With about 3-5 years of experience, they could eventually transition into a supervisory/clinical director role, with salaries topping out at $100-115k.

Licensed at 85-90k? No thanks