Clinical Exp vs Shadowing? Need both?

[deleted968861]

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I've been MD scribing for a surgeon for 4 years now, accumulated 400 hours of clinical exp. I have shadowed him in the OR as well one time. Does this count as enough clinical exp? Or do I need more shadowing exp, since I considered MD scribing for him as shadowing him....

In terms of Clinical experience, on an app, I would put:
10 hours shadowing (surgeon and internal med doc, won't get a rec from the internal med doc)
400 hours MD Scribing (Now I'm the lead scribe) Paid
20 hours (hosting health fairs) Volunteer
Is this enough clinical exp for MD schools?

 

[Catalystik]

I've been MD scribing for a surgeon for 4 years now, accumulated 400 hours of clinical exp. I have shadowed him in the OR as well one time. Does this count as enough clinical exp? Or do I need more shadowing exp, since I considered MD scribing for him as shadowing him....

In terms of Clinical experience, on an app, I would put:
10 hours shadowing (surgeon and internal med doc, won't get a rec from the internal med doc)
400 hours MD Scribing (Now I'm the lead scribe) Paid
50 hours (hosting health fairs) Volunteer
Is this enough clinical exp for MD schools?

While some adcomms will look on scribing as covering the expectation for shadowing, others will not. I strongly suggest you consider adding further dedicated shadowing of a primary care provider who provides longitudinal care in a office setting (where the patient interacts with the physician). You can include the OR shadowing and past IM doc in the same Shadowing space on the med school application.

As far as active clinical experience goes, the scribing alone will be fine for many programs, but others will want to see that you've interacted with sick and/or injured folks, which many scribing experiences don't allow.

What was your role at the health fairs? Did you mainly screen healthy participants?

 

[deleted968861]

I took the BP of patients and counseled them on healthy lifestyle habits. How many shadowing hours would you say I need? Is shadowing a hospitalist sufficient to cover the shadowing requirements? My scribing experience was at a private clinic where I did interact with patients and saw their progression long term of their diseases. I interacted with the patients at my private clinic by asking them for follow up appointments, how they're doing on medications, providing excused notes, and further disease symptoms they'd like for me to put in the note.

In the private clinic where I work, the patient definitely interacted with the physician a lot. It's a private surgical clinic. I'd only come in on days when the doctor is seeing patients. Many patients were new or follow up, and I'd helped the doctor previously take care of them.

What kind of interaction are they looking for?

 

[deleted968861]

I also have clinical research experience that results in a first author poster and pub in a high IF (6-7) journal. Does this count as clinical exp? I didn't interact with patients, but interacted with some HCPs

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

No it doesn't sorry. You should try volunteering at a hospice, hospital, or planned parenthood. Basically anywhere that you can interact with patients. I don't think your scribing job covers it either.

 

[deleted968861]

I actually have a class that assigns volunteering opportunities for students. I have about 30 hours of direct patient interaction from that. Would this count? I interacted with elderly people at a nursing home for this course.

So overall, I think my class volunteering and health fairs allow me to interact with patients:
50 hours.

Then I have 400 hours of scribing at a private clinic, which I would argue that I do interact with patients, because I will talk to them to get the HPI before even the doctor comes in.

 

[deleted968861]

@Goro @LizzyM

 

[Catalystik]

1) I took the BP of patients and counseled them on healthy lifestyle habits.
2) How many shadowing hours would you say I need?
3) Is shadowing a hospitalist sufficient to cover the shadowing requirements?
4) a. My scribing experience was at a private clinic where I did interact with patients and saw their progression long term of their diseases. I interacted with the patients at my private clinic by asking them for follow up appointments, how they're doing on medications, providing excused notes, and further disease symptoms they'd like for me to put in the note.

In the private clinic where I work, the patient definitely interacted with the physician a lot. It's a private surgical clinic. I'd only come in on days when the doctor is seeing patients. Many patients were new or follow up, and I'd helped the doctor previously take care of them.

5) What kind of interaction are they looking for?

1) So, what percent had high BP? Weren't most of them within the normal range? I'd look at this activity as likely to be considered primarily nonclinical volunteering, with a touch of patient experience, if your health fair was typical and available to the general community. If it was a health fair provided to an unusual, high-risk community, let me know.

2) An additional 8-10 hours of office-based primary care would be ideal. That would give you ~20 total. But be sure to refer to the scribing at the end of the space, without adding those hours to your total. The scribing, of course, would be listed under clinical employment, where you would list every hour.

3) A hospitalist provides episodic care, not longitudinal care, but provides a good variety of experience in acute care. If no other opportunity is open to you, then shadow a hospitalist.

4) a. Be sure to provide all these details of your duties.

5) You've got it covered, IMO. I think you'll be fine with the expanded duties of your scribe position. (Some do not allow any conversation with the patient.)

 

[Catalystik]

I also have clinical research experience that results in a first author poster and pub in a high IF (6-7) journal. Does this count as clinical exp? I didn't interact with patients, but interacted with some HCPs

If you didn't interact with current patients, then, No.

 

[Catalystik]

I actually have a class that assigns volunteering opportunities for students. I have about 30 hours of direct patient interaction from that. Would this count? I interacted with elderly people at a nursing home for this course.

Nursing home volunteering is another gray area that is interpreted differently, depending on the adcomm.

Is this a nursing home, skilled-care nursing home, retirement center, independent-living center, or assisted-living facility? Do you refer to them as residents or patients? What was your role?

 

[Goro]

1) So, what percent had high BP? Weren't most of them within the normal range? I'd look at this activity as likely to be considered primarily nonclinical volunteering, with a touch of patient experience, if your health fair was typical and available to the general community. If it was a health fair provided to an unusual, high-risk community, let me know.

2) An additional 8-10 hours of office-based primary care would be ideal. That would give you ~20 total. But be sure to refer to the scribing at the end of the space, without adding those hours to your total. The scribing, of course, would be listed under clinical employment, where you would list every hour.

3) A hospitalist provides episodic care, not longitudinal care, but provides a good variety of experience in acute care. If no other opportunity is open to you, then shadow a hospitalist.

4) a. Be sure to provide all these details of your duties.

5) You've got it covered, IMO. I think you'll be fine with the expanded duties of your scribe position. (Some do not allow any conversation with the patient.)

OP. listen to the wise Cat

 

[deleted968861]

@Catalystik Thanks for the advice! One of the health fairs addressed Awareness for diseases, but they're nonclinical volunteering. How important is nonclinical volunteering? Is it possible to count research hours towards non-clinical volunteering? I don't have much non-clinical volunteering otherwise.

 

[Catalystik]

@Catalystik Thanks for the advice! One of the health fairs addressed Awareness for diseases, but they're nonclinical volunteering.
1) How important is nonclinical volunteering?
2) Is it possible to count research hours towards non-clinical volunteering? I don't have much non-clinical volunteering otherwise.

1) Community service is essential at med schools with a humanistic or service orientation, and fairly important (and rapidly becoming moreso) everywhere else.

2) No. But if you didn't get class credit, you can make it clear that it was a nonpaid position in your narrative.

 

[deleted968861]

1) I've held fundraisers for populations in need and health fairs in the past. I will continue my nonclinical volunteering! Thanks