clinical experience for PA program

[Booner]

My brother is considering applying to PA programs but is wondering about his experience and if it would count for many of the programs' required clinical experience.
He worked for a few years in a vet clinic doing intake, taking histories, presenting to the vets and assisting in surgeries. Then he graduated and went to work in a contract research lab doing pre-clinical research for pharmaceutical and medical device companies. There he wears many hats and is the number two guy at the lab, preparing studies, overseeing the rest of the staff (3-6 others), assisting in surgery, etc.
Correct me if this is wrong, but I figure the requirements are there to ensure two types of experience; first, interpersonal skills with patients and second, the more scientific/medical aspect relating to disease and thought process. I figure the time he spent at the clinic speaking with pet owners would fulfill the first and certainly the time he has spent at the lab has exposed him to the more scientific side of things. The only thing is he has spent his time working with animals instead of people. But, taking a history from a pet owner isn't too far off from my experience taking histories from parents of small children.
What is your opinion on this? Anyone with a somewhat similar experience care to chime in? Thanks.

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[deleted6669]

sorry, but most programs would not consider this direct medical experience. there is a place on the caspa appliocation for "health care related activities" and they could probably get away with putting it there.
typical clinical preparation for pa school is lpn/rn, medical asst., resp. therapist, emt/paramedic, etc
most places will not count research(even with people).

 

[DeeKay05]

im confused b/c i've heard that PA programs are easier to get into when you have no clinical experience (which i don't) -- but then, some encourage you to have all this experience (emt, rn, etc). im concerned i won't be able to have any legit clinical experience when applying b/c it's hard to get those types of gigs in volunteer positions.

will this hurt my chances of getting in?? how do i get more clinical experience if i have no credentials?

 

[Paseo Del Norte]

im confused b/c i've heard that PA programs are easier to get into when you have no clinical experience (which i don't) -- but then, some encourage you to have all this experience (emt, rn, etc). im concerned i won't be able to have any legit clinical experience when applying b/c it's hard to get those types of gigs in volunteer positions.

will this hurt my chances of getting in?? how do i get more clinical experience if i have no credentials?

Possibly, as some programs require experience. Another possibility to consider is the EMT third rider route. However, if you cannot volly or get a job, you can look at getting on as a third rider. You are not paid, but you can still ride and work with the crew and document the hours.

You can also look at various tech positions such as working as an ER tech.

 

[Miss Mab]

Not sure how the vet/research background would be viewed by individual schools but certainly the clinical experience requirements can vary pretty widely.

The AAPA.org website has some reliable info on stats of accepted PA students going back a number of years and might be of some help to your brother.

Data from 2007---

--around half(48%) of new PA student respondents claimed total patient contact experience of one year or less with almost a quarter(24%) saying they had none at all.
Top three fields represented were medical assistant, EMT/paramedic and phlebotomist. Good news is these certifications can be completed relatively quickly.

Unaware if there are more current stats(?) available, perhaps someone can direct you.

Overall, I'm more comfortable w/info along these lines----i.e., actual enrolled student data rather than extrapolating from a more dilute and enlarged applicant pool or even relying on randomized personal opinion.

Weighty decisions all.

 

[deleted6669]

There are programs that will take folks with lower levels or quality of experience. the better programs clinical prereqs look like this:

Clinical Experience Requirement:
Minimum of two (2) years of paid, recent, full-time equivalent, hands-on experience in the direct delivery of medical care to patients (approximately 4,000 hours); examples might be LPN, RN, Paramedic, Corpsman, OR Current professional credentials and at least two (2) years of paid, recent full-time experience in an allied health field, such as medical technology, X-ray technology, pharmacy, etc. For more information on allied health fields please visit the American Medical Association / Careers in Health Care website.
Our strongest candidates are those with some experience in direct patient care. If you are considering a career in an allied health field, consider a profession that includes opportunities to work directly in patient care. If you are already in a field that does not have much direct patient care, volunteer experience is a great way to supplement your 4000+ paid experience hours.

 

[core0]

Not sure how the vet/research background would be viewed by individual schools but certainly the clinical experience requirements can vary pretty widely.

The AAPA.org website has some reliable info on stats of accepted PA students going back a number of years and might be of some help to your brother.

Data from 2007---

--around half(48%) of new PA student respondents claimed total patient contact experience of one year or less with almost a quarter(24%) saying they had none at all.
Top three fields represented were medical assistant, EMT/paramedic and phlebotomist. Good news is these certifications can be completed relatively quickly.

Unaware if there are more current stats(?) available, perhaps someone can direct you.

Overall, I'm more comfortable w/info along these lines----i.e., actual enrolled student data rather than extrapolating from a more dilute and enlarged applicant pool or even relying on randomized personal opinion.

Weighty decisions all.

The problem with the AAPA data is that it asks the question in a different way than it generally is asked.
http://www.aapa.org/images/stories/2007studentcensusregionalreport.pdf
The information deals with with work in the health care field. The CASPA data process looks at HCE regardless of paid status or not. This also reflects the difference between programs. Some programs only recognize paid HCE. You could have 20,000 hours of volunteer paramedic service with a volunteer fire department and it wouldn't count. Other programs do or don't differentiate between direct (ie hands on patient care) and indirect. For example some programs will accept pharmacy tech as HCE and some won't.

If you look at the data set from CASPA here:
http://www.paeaonline.org/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/96023
Less than 3% of applicants had no HCE and less than 8% had less than 100 hours. On the average applicants had more than 2 1/2 years of HCE. The caveat on this data is that it contains data of 108 of the 140 or so programs in that CASPA cycle. On the other hand this probably under represents HCE as most of the programs that do not use CASPA weigh HCE heavily (the CC programs for example). The data from cycle 6 which covers the 2007 year actually shows less students with <100 hours HCE than cycle 8.

On the other hand as you asked there are two major differences between applicants and matriculants. Matriculants will have a higher GPA and on the average slightly less HCE. There has been a lot of discussion about what this means. My interpretation (for what its worth) is that once a minimum amount of HCE is met extra doesn't confer an advantage that will overcome a lower GPA or GRE. The data out there does not show any advantage on passing the PANCE for increased HCE. On the other hand GPA and GRE are good predictors of being able to complete graduate work. The

Ultimately PA programs are judged by the ARC-PA on two things, the ability of their graduates to pass the PANCE and the ability of the program to graduate its matriculants. The PANCE pass rate must be readily available from the program. The graduation rate is also publicly available (although not as accessible). They are also judged in the community by the graduate they produce although that probably also varies widely.

From the OPs point of view, its very difficult to gain admission to PA school with no HCE. On the other hand many programs simply want to be assured that you understand the basics of the health care system from the inside. For these a relatively small amount of HCE (100-1000 hours of paid or volunteer) will meet the requirements. There are also a number of programs (probably ~20) that require substantial (2000 hours + paid HCE) and the more the better.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Booner]

I'd just like to thank everyone for their responses. If there's anything else that hasn't been covered I'd welcome that too. Thanks again.

 

[DizzyJon]

Prior to becoming a PA I worked in veterinary medicine and that experience was priceless. I had exposure to tons of medicines, taking xrays/ultrasound, phlebotomy, IV's, first assisting in surgery, CPR, running lab machines, anesthesia, etc... I think it all really helped me through school and with my practice today. One of the schools I wanted to apply to however would not consider it for HCE.

 

[Woody08]

I am the brother of the OP that is considering PA school. I very much appreciate the insights offered in all of the responses. I will be contacting several programs to see how they feel about my experience and what their suggestions are for me to become more competitive. As DizzyJon indicated I feel the breadth of experience I have gained through my work experience will be invaluable to me as a PA.
Thanks again to everyone who responded.