Clinical experience timing

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dr.phalange

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Hey everyone. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post, but I was wondering if the start dates of my clinical experiences would be enough of a problem that I should maybe postpone applying to next year.
I am a current junior, 3.76 cGPA, 3.82 BCPM GPA (I am a math major, so my math classes help with my BCPM GPA, although my science classes are also all A/A- with the exception of one B+ in biochem), taking the MCAT this April. I have been in a research lab since April of my freshman year (so almost 2 years), and I have been working on an independent project for the past year. I am presenting at a national conference, national poster session, and working on getting the paper published (idk if the publication will happen before June so not going to count on it). My PI will definitely be able to write a good rec, and I also collaborate with another lab, and that PI knows me very well, so she could provide a secondary letter as well if needed. So, I would say my research experience isn't an issue as of now (correct me if I'm wrong though, don't want to make any assumptions!).

I recently started working as an EMT, volunteering in a clinic once a week, and shadowing (will probably have around 50 hours of shadowing by the time of app, and maybe 150-200 hours of clinical exp/patient contact). However, all of this started in January (last month), sooo I'm worried it doesn't look so good because if I apply in June, it'll be only 6 months of clinical/shadowing. If I apply next year, which I am not opposed to, I would have over a year of clinical volunteering and clinical exp, and would probably have a better chance of having a published paper. I should add that my other EC's are fine (non-clinical volunteering/leadership and involvement in clubs/etc).

Of course, this is all contingent on my MCAT score, but assuming that's not a problem, is the 6 months vs 1.5 years difference in clinical/volunteering going to be a dealbreaker? Thanks!

Edit: forgot to add that I am applying MD/PhD haha oops

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You are doing too much clinical activity! As MD/PhD any time beyond 100-150 hrs of clinical experience is wasted time that you could be doing in the lab.
Very true. I did 50 hours clinical (only shadowing) and have been quite successful this cycle.
 
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Okay, thanks for replying! I genuinely enjoy working as an EMT and I do the other things on weekends/evenings so I don't use up my lab time. I guess I'm just being paranoid because I'd hate to apply this year and not succeed if the only difference is waiting one year.
 
You are doing too much clinical activity! As MD/PhD any time beyond 100-150 hrs of clinical experience is wasted time that you could be doing in the lab.
is it frown upon then if you do have a lot of clinical experience...?
 
It might be seen as a missed opportunity. Keep in mind that about 120 accepted MD/PhD applicants withdraw after an acceptance, most often to just pursue a MD program. An applicant with lots of clinical experiences prior to encountering research and then pursuing primarily research wouldn't be penalized, but substantial clinical activity after "significant research experiences" will increase the likelihood of the outcome that I described above. Every adcom might see it a bit differently...
 
It might be seen as a missed opportunity. Keep in mind that about 120 accepted MD/PhD applicants withdraw after an acceptance, most often to just pursue a MD program. An applicant with lots of clinical experiences prior to encountering research and then pursuing primarily research wouldn't be penalized, but substantial clinical activity after "significant research experiences" will increase the likelihood of the outcome that I described above. Every adcom might see it a bit differently...
Hm... that's interesting. i guess it also depends on how one perceive the ultimate job of a physician scientist. Between doing science and providing medical care, medical care have a more direct and quicker impact on a patient... So while I think that research is the love of my life, it will still be patients first for me, and I don't think MD/PhD applicants/students should be penalized for spending more time on learning how to better serve another human being, and depending on your speciality, it can be life changing for that person.
 
Hm... that's interesting. i guess it also depends on how one perceive the ultimate job of a physician scientist. Between doing science and providing medical care, medical care have a more direct and quicker impact on a patient... So while I think that research is the love of my life, it will still be patients first for me, and I don't think MD/PhD applicants/students should be penalized for spending more time on learning how to better serve another human being, and depending on your speciality, it can be life changing for that person.
Officially, the purpose of physician-scientist training programs is to prepare trainees for careers that are roughly 80% research, 20% clinical duty. If you foresee yourself working more in the clinic, MD-only sounds like a more appropriate route.
 
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Officially, the purpose of physician-scientist training programs is to prepare trainees for careers that are roughly 80% research, 20% clinical duty. If you foresee yourself working more in the clinic, MD-only sounds like a more appropriate route.
I fully intend on pursuing the 80-20 schedule, but that doesn't mean i shouldn't spend the time I need to in trying to raise the quality of medical care I will provide to my patients. You are still a doctor even if you are only spending 20% of your time seeing patients, and as a physician, it is your responsibility to provide the best care you can for your patients.
 
I fully intend on pursuing the 80-20 schedule, but that doesn't mean i shouldn't spend the time I need to in trying to raise the quality of medical care I will provide to my patients. You are still a doctor even if you are only spending 20% of your time seeing patients, and as a physician, it is your responsibility to provide the best care you can for your patients.

Certainly all physicians, including scientists, will do that. It's just that MD/PhD programs don't really value clinical exposure at the undergraduate level the same way MD programs do. You will get plenty of proper clinical training through medical school and residency so I don't think anyone is suggesting you shouldn't care about being a great clinician. It's just that for the purposes of the program, admitting the best scientists possible is more important

Personally, I keep up my clinical volunteering because I enjoy it. That simple.
 
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Sorry to hi-jack, but:

I am also scrambling for clinical time. I anticipate submitting my app by the end of June - something my premed advisors did not advise me against - but will likely only start clinical work by early to Mid-March as a consequence of some scheduling issues. I had to withdraw from a research for credit course due to health reasons last semester and switched labs. I am really excited and happy about the work in this new group and am taking a 4 credits - 16+ hours/week commitment and will probably continue there until I graduate. I have research experience from HS to now, probably from 2011 - present and am very keen on becoming a physician scientist. In college, I worked at a lab the summer prior to freshman year (spent 2 years with this PI in total incl. HS, we have a great relationship), freshman/sophomore year + summer with another PI (solid relationship, but I realized that it's not the research I'm interested in), and then started and left a project because of health issues fall junior year, and joined this new group, which I love. (3.8 cGPA/3.7 sGPA at an Ivy, waiting on MCAT.) Will having 50 hours of clinical be sufficient by application time? I started googling after realizing how late my start date is and am freaking out a bit.

I love science and I love research, and I really don't want to take time off for financial/other reasons. I am international so I plan on applying in Canada as well as the US.
Was there a question in there, or were you just sharing your plans?
 
Hah :p I'm sorry; it was late and I was a ball of stress.
I was just wondering if 50ish hours and done right before application would be ok in terms of clinical experience? I think the program I'm doing will be very interesting and teach me a lot about the patient experience/give me contact. A secondary question was whether my plans sound broadly reasonable.
I think mdphd programs generally don't require as many shadow or clinical hours as md applications, but more important is if you can reasonably articulate "why medicine". (And how you do on the mcat)
 
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