Clinical Pharmacist Practitioner

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wannabpharmbad

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  1. Pharmacy Student
I read about the introduction of clinical Pharmacist Practioners in North Carolina but I don't know anyone in this field. I was curious to find out for those who are CPP's, what is the job market like? Do you work for physician offices or hospitals? What is the pay relative to retail or hospital pharmacist? and did you do a residency?
 
no reply? no clinical pharmacists?
 
I'm a prepharm but from NC so maybe I can help. I don't know much about the pay but basically NC has the CPP be a certified pharmacist in a specialty and then they become a CPP when they have a doc who is willing to let the pharmacist work with them under a sort of collaborative agreement. As for the pay and whatnot, I assume it would be similar to being a certified pharmacist in pharmacotherapy, geriatrics, etc. since that is the requirement to become a CPP.
 
I just got licensed in NC. CPPs are mid-levels like NPs and PAs. You have to have a certain amount of clinical experience, board certifications, etc. to do it, and you have to have a collaborative practice agreement with a physician. CPPs can prescribe narcotics if they have a DEA number. That's about all I know about them. I'm still working retail in SC where mid-levels cannot prescribe CIIs. I have to send patients back across the border a good bit.
 
Thank you all for the responses. It doesn't look like this is a popular route yet for pharmacists.
 
Thank you all for the responses. It doesn't look like this is a popular route yet for pharmacists.

Keep in mind only NC does it (I think NM does something similar though). Then you have to be a clinical pharmacist, with a certification in an area where you are doing a lot of patient contact, and then get a Dr. to do a collaboration with you as well that is approved by the hospital.

And then that person needs to do well enough in it to be comfortable and THEN they also need to be a member of SDN who trolls the thread more than 1-2 times a quarter :meanie:

Statistically it's not so hot compared to a asking a pediatric or psychiatric pharmacist about their job description.
 
Pharmacists should not be prescribing medications since you need to make a diagnosis to do so. We are not trained in that area. Hell, they don't even require us to take anatomy in pharmacy school.
 
Pharmacists should not be prescribing medications since you need to make a diagnosis to do so. We are not trained in that area. Hell, they don't even require us to take anatomy in pharmacy school.

Wait you didn't take anatomy?!? In my first semester, I will be dealing with a cadaver. I'm just surprised you didn't have to.
 
Pharmacists should not be prescribing medications since you need to make a diagnosis to do so. We are not trained in that area. Hell, they don't even require us to take anatomy in pharmacy school.
What about in a patient that already has a diagnosis?

And yeah, I took two semesters of A&P. Not that that alone makes me qualified to examine someone, just saying I had to take it.
 
I'm sure you have to perform a 2 year residency to become a CPP. One year general and one year specialty. You will be able to practice in your field and make diagnoses and what-not. Also you will be working with a physician so if you are truly unsure, you have a physician who can help. I think the idea of a CPP is a wonderful idea and is the future of the profession.

We are doctors too you know. Its time to step up to the plate and man up. If you want to be a glorified pez dispenser, then go do that. If you want to put our pharmacotherapeutic knowledge to good use, I say the CPP is the place to do that.
 
If you want to diagnose and prescribe, get an MD.
 
Wait you didn't take anatomy?!? In my first semester, I will be dealing with a cadaver. I'm just surprised you didn't have to.
Every school is different. We didn't take anatomy with a cadaver, or anatomy period. Straight-up physio first year.
 
Every school is different. We didn't take anatomy with a cadaver, or anatomy period. Straight-up physio first year.

yeah, we don't have to take it because it's a pre req but there is an elective to take it with the cadaver.
 
you are like a broken record. no one wants to diagnose here.

I WANNA DIAGNOSE.

Here come the test results: You are a horrible person. That's what it says: A horrible person. We weren't even testing for that.

Seriously though, we don't all need to be able to rule out lupus and sarcoidosis to feel like we contribute to a patient's health. And a bunch of pharmacists here would agree that sometimes a doctor doesn't get back to things in a timely fashion. Being able to order a couple of lab tests and be able to adjust a patient's meds within reason (and I'm sure that to become a CPP you know what is reasonable at that point since a doctor has to make it clear to allow you to do it by signing under him) is worth it to me rather than having to sit back and know what this issue is without being able to do a damn thing about it.

Retail doctor callbacks anyone????
 
Wait, so we can't do this already?

Some places have different agreements for things like this. Usually a pharmacist "strongly recommends" something to a doctor, or at least from my understanding. However, I don't have a huge amount of experience in this area other than what I have read.

"A Clinical Pharmacist Practitioner is defined as a "licensed pharmacist in good standing who is approved to provide drug therapy management under the direction of, or under the supervision of, a licensed physician who has provided written instructions for a patient and disease specific drug therapy which may include ordering, changing, substituting therapies or ordering tests."

Source
http://www.ncpharmacists.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=13
 
In Washington, all pharmacists can prescribe under a collaborative practice agreement. This includes controls.

This is done commonly with coumadin, where a pharmacist monitors INR and adjusts the dose as needed. You can also specialize and work specifically in pain management, psych, trauma, anesthesia, etc. What you are allowed to prescribe and under what circumstances is defined by the physician who you are working with.

As for the student, who did not take anatomy and physiology, that is hard to believe. For me, they were prerequisites to get into pharmacy school. We had pathophysiology the first year and if you did not know normal body function then you could not know what is abnormal! We were also taught to diagnose in pharmacy school. Again, not sure where you are going to school, and I am surprised that they are accredited.
 
Pharmacists should not be prescribing medications since you need to make a diagnosis to do so. We are not trained in that area. Hell, they don't even require us to take anatomy in pharmacy school.

I think it depends on the school you go to. Some schools like Texas Tech that make you take anatomy with cadaver and have a clinical emphasis give you a good foundation so add 2yrs of residency and I would think you should be ready.... PA programs are only 2yrs anyway
 
Pharmacists should not be prescribing medications since you need to make a diagnosis to do so. We are not trained in that area. Hell, they don't even require us to take anatomy in pharmacy school.

This is an old thread, but what the heck...I'll reply.

The requirements to be a CPP in North Carolina are:
To become a CPP, as defined, in 21 NCAC 46.3101, you must be a licensed pharmacist and have an agreement
with a physician, as defined in 21 NCAC 46.3101 (6). In addition, you must have either: (1) have completed a Board
of Pharmaceutical Specialties (BPS) Certification or Geriatric Certification, or the American Society of Health-
Systems Pharmacists (ASHP) accredited residency program and have 2 years clinical experience
OR
(2) you must
have earned a PharmD degree, have 3 years experience, and have completed a Certificate Program
OR
(3) you
must have earned a BS degree, have 5 years experience, and have completed two certificate programs.

In addition, they need to earn 35 CEs per year, versus "regular" NC pharmacists, who require only 15 credits per year (which includes 8 live hours).

I am a hospital pharmacist in NC. Our hospital has CPPs in the emergency department and in our neurotrauma ICU. Our CPPs have written agreements with the physicians in those areas. They DO NOT diagnose, but if a patient is diagnosed with "hospital acquired pneumonia", the CPP can then enter orders for the appropriate antibiotics at the appropriate doses without asking the doc "Is it ok for me to enter orders for Zosyn, Levaquin, and vanc on this patient? or "Can I change the vancomycin dose from 1000mg q12h to 1500mg q12h?" The pharmacist can also order follow up labs, cultures, etc, and D/C antibiotics when appropriate. The pharmacist attends multidisciplinary rounds every day, so they will often discuss their plan during rounds.

Our CPPs in the emergency department follow up on culture results for patients discharged from the ED. If culture results dictate that a change in antibiotic therapy is needed, they are able choose the appropriate antibiotic, call it in to a pharmacy, and call the patient to let them know.

Again, the pharmacist does NOT make the diagnosis, they let the MD do that. The pharmacist just manages the medications, as they should. It's a great model - it allows the physicians to focus on other aspects of the patient's care.

If any of you are interested, I have attached an article that was recently published in AJHP (American Journal of Health System Pharmacy). It was written by one of the CPPs at our hospital and co-authored by one of our trauma surgeons. The article focuses on interventions made after the addition of CPPs to our neurotrauma ICU, but in addition, it explains the types of interventions and activities the CPP can perform. (Vol 72, Jan 1, 2015)


It's been almost 4 years since the last post in this thread, but if anyone comes across my post, I hope this helps at least a little bit!
 

Attachments

That was an interesting article. With all of the talk about provider status these days I'm surprised no one has pushed more for that model. I work in an ICU and have freedom to adjust doses based on kinetics, as well as a general 10% rounding rule for convenience. It's nice not having to chase down the docs to get a vanco level or to try and convince them to change the dose. I can only imagine how nice it would be to have more freedom, even if to switch drug products when we have shortages. It's annoying having someone get angry with me because of a nationwide back-order. I'd rather avoid that conversation all together.
 
I am not a CPP but I work with several CPP's - most of the ones that I know all work in an ambulatory care environment - with 80% of their work in the world of anticoags - mostly warfarin of course. They do not diagnosis - they manage drug therapy under a collaborative agreement with a MD. They will analyze labs, screen for adr's, and adjust dosages and some will change drugs to a different drug in that class - all depends on their specific agreement.

I work in a similiar seeting as gwarm01 - that is much different than a CPP - we can do a lot at our hospital without calling the MD - we can adjust doses on many drugs for renal function and when we get specific backorders we push through changes through an emergency P&T committee so we dont have to call all MD's
 
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