Clinical PsyD vs Clinical psychology PhD

[cytomegalovirus123]

I am asking for someone I know as I need to learn more about the prospects for the field of psychology. However, they hope to pursue a psych program and would like further insight.

At first, they say they would like to get some form of master's within a psych field or adjacent discipline and work for a few years before going for a doctorate program.

However, they may also look at just a doctorate program in general. In their lab, they study social cognition and decision-making. Their concentration within their psych degree is also criminal justice; they work with juveniles within the judicial system and help them.

However, they would like to research children who were victims of sexual violence in the future, and they would like to start their practice eventually.

What would be the best path for them with all the goals I have aligned? Their PI co-founded a top-ranked social psych journal during his time as an editor.

With all those things in line, what path would be the best? The PsyD or clinical psych Ph.D. Would a psych PhD in general exist, or what other factors need to be examined? Thank you all for your help!

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[Sanman]

Based on what you have said, it is going to be very hard to give good advice because the information is third hand and lacks clear goals.

1. There are few good paths to get a masters and work clinically that also lead to a doctorate without doing double the work. Decide if you want a clinical masters or clinical doctorate. Working in research is different.

2. Does this person want to be a researcher or clinician? In general, you need to have one or the other as a primary focus in your career. Your focus will dictate what types of programs to consider.

3. PhD vs PsyD is a bad question. A research focused PhD (clinical or otherwise) vs a clinically focused PhD or PsyD is what the decision should be. Some clinical PhD programs are just as practice focused as the PsyD.

 

[summerbabe]

However, they would like to research children who were victims of sexual violence in the future, and they would like to start their practice eventually.

What would be the best path for them with all the goals I have aligned? Their PI co-founded a top-ranked social psych journal during his time as an editor.

The vast, vast majority of clinical/counseling/school psych PhD or PsyD degree holders practice clinically full time and don’t do research beyond grad school.

During my time in a department with all 3 of these funded programs, I only know of 4 peers who ultimately went into academia. I’m sure I’m missing some but regardless, the % of clinicians vs academics must be 90%+ at least within my sample size (but I think is probably fairly reflective of the field as a whole).

People on this path do research but spend a ton of time on clinical training including many practicums during grad school.

Now somebody in a non-clinical program such as social, cognitive or experimental psych would get to focus basically all of their time on research (plus some general coursework and teaching some undergrad courses if they are being funded) which can be a boon for establishing an eventual academic career, which can be quite competitive.

So my advice would be for them to think about how much they really want to pursue research vs practice because as you further specialize, it becomes harder and harder to pursue multiple aims simultaneously.

And lastly, their current mentor’s advice is probably pretty important.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Some people can pursue a research career and still be eligible for licensure if they pursue clinical/counseling psych, which i believe is the best of both worlds. I can only speak to large R1 AMCs, but in that setting it helps to be licensed bc you can then supervise clinicians (revenue generating) while also doing your research (paid largely through grants). You can also subsidize some of your “cost” to the Uni via taking on a day in a clinic.

Pursuing a licensable degree isn’t all puppy dogs and rainbows though. Some of my hardcore research colleagues basically tolerated clinical work and treated it as a means to an end.

Some areas of research aren’t really amenable to a clinical path, so it can dependent on the type and area of research.

 

[cytomegalovirus123]

Based on what you have said, it is going to be very hard to give good advice because the information is third hand and lacks clear goals.

1. There are few good paths to get a masters and work clinically that also lead to a doctorate without doing double the work. Decide if you want a clinical masters or clinical doctorate. Working in research is different.

2. Does this person want to be a researcher or clinician? In general, you need to have one or the other as a primary focus in your career. Your focus will dictate what types of programs to consider.

3. PhD vs PsyD is a bad question. A research focused PhD (clinical or otherwise) vs a clinically focused PhD or PsyD is what the decision should be. Some clinical PhD programs are just as practice focused as the PsyD.

The vast, vast majority of clinical/counseling/school psych PhD or PsyD degree holders practice clinically full time and don’t do research beyond grad school.

During my time in a department with all 3 of these funded programs, I only know of 4 peers who ultimately went into academia. I’m sure I’m missing some but regardless, the % of clinicians vs academics must be 90%+ at least within my sample size (but I think is probably fairly reflective of the field as a whole).

People on this path do research but spend a ton of time on clinical training including many practicums during grad school.

Now somebody in a non-clinical program such as social, cognitive or experimental psych would get to focus basically all of their time on research (plus some general coursework and teaching some undergrad courses if they are being funded) which can be a boon for establishing an eventual academic career, which can be quite competitive.

So my advice would be for them to think about how much they really want to pursue research vs practice because as you further specialize, it becomes harder and harder to pursue multiple aims simultaneously.

And lastly, their current mentor’s advice is probably pretty important.

Thank you for this insight I will let them know! Additionally, my last question is what student is a competitive applicant for a clinical psychology PhD program. Because they are interested in this avenue. They currently have around a 3.4-3.5 GPA and they have had experience interning with students with down-syndrome as well as individuals with Autism spectrum disorder. They will also be conducting research now with the help of their mentor. More specifically, what can a student do to ensure a spot into these funded programs?

 

[WisNeuro]

Thank you for this insight I will let them know! Additionally, my last question is what student is a competitive applicant for a clinical psychology PhD program. Because they are interested in this avenue. They currently have around a 3.4-3.5 GPA and they have had experience interning with students with down-syndrome as well as individuals with Autism spectrum disorder. They will also be conducting research now with the help of their mentor. More specifically, what can a student do to ensure a spot into these funded programs?

To ensure a spot? They can have a 4.0 or near GPA, high GRE is the program still takes them, some research productivity, and be a good fit for the PI/program for which they are applying. With acceptance rates in the single digits, there really is no sure thing for all but the top applicants.

 

[jdawg2017]

To ensure a spot? They can have a 4.0 or near GPA, high GRE is the program still takes them, some research productivity, and be a good fit for the PI/program for which they are applying. With acceptance rates in the single digits, there really is no sure thing for all but the top applicants.

All of this is helpful. I would also add it's increasingly common for people to work in a 2+ year post-bacc research positions, such research assistant or clinical research coordinator roles. This usually helps boost research productivity if you can get posters/pubs out of the experience, which is a fairly rare experience for an undergrad (posters are more common than papers for undergrad productivity). Even with this, there are no "guarantees" and there is still a degree of "luck" involved.

Lots of factors are out of your control in the search for a funded doctoral program, such as when a PI plans to take a student, funding/research politics in departments (e.g., I interviewed at a program where basically the PI was not sure if they could take a student or not because funded slots rotated on a mixture of program fit of the applicant + who last took students), etc. Control what you can, like what @WisNeuro said, but it's good to acknowledge that even really good applicants may not get in, even after applying multiple rounds.

 

[cytomegalovirus123]

To ensure a spot? They can have a 4.0 or near GPA, high GRE is the program still takes them, some research productivity, and be a good fit for the PI/program for which they are applying. With acceptance rates in the single digits, there really is no sure thing for all but the top applicants.

All of this is helpful. I would also add it's increasingly common for people to work in a 2+ year post-bacc research positions, such research assistant or clinical research coordinator roles. This usually helps boost research productivity if you can get posters/pubs out of the experience, which is a fairly rare experience for an undergrad (posters are more common than papers for undergrad productivity). Even with this, there are no "guarantees" and there is still a degree of "luck" involved.

Lots of factors are out of your control in the search for a funded doctoral program, such as when a PI plans to take a student, funding/research politics in departments (e.g., I interviewed at a program where basically the PI was not sure if they could take a student or not because funded slots rotated on a mixture of program fit of the applicant + who last took students), etc. Control what you can, like what @WisNeuro said, but it's good to acknowledge that even really good applicants may not get in, even after applying multiple rounds.

Thank you all for your help. This is very good info!