Clinical research counting as shadowing too?

[wizz415]

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Hi everyone!

I hope your summers are coming along well, but I have a question! So, I'm currently working with a physician doing clinical research (I'll be second author on it) and was wondering if I could count the time I spend working with him as shadowing hours too. I tag along when he visits patients and participate in their treatment, but was wondering if that's enough to qualify it as 'shadowing' hours too. I've done a search on the forums, but haven't found an answer .

Any help would be great!

 

[allantois]

Nice pic but I would remove it from a public forum.

you can count hours of tagging along as shadowing. People often do it while hospital volunteering

 

[wizz415]

Yeah, I did not notice how much was actually showing.

Thanks though! Now I know what to do.

 

[Styrene]

I think it generally refers to the experience of being in the room while the physician interacts with the patient in a private setting. In other words, one need not have asked to shadow before shadowing for shadowing to be considered shadowing.

 

[Lamel]

Yeah I would count it if it is significant.

 

[cs24]

Hi everyone!

I hope your summers are coming along well, but I have a question! So, I'm currently working with a physician doing clinical research (I'll be second author on it) and was wondering if I could count the time I spend working with him as shadowing hours too. I tag along when he visits patients and participate in their treatment, but was wondering if that's enough to qualify it as 'shadowing' hours too. I've done a search on the forums, but haven't found an answer .

Any help would be great!

I wouldn't count all the hours you spend working as shadowing, but the time he lets you "shadow" can count, if that makes sense. I.e if you work 40 hrs a week, and spend 5 of those hours following a physician around seeing patients, I would think you could call that 5 hours of shadowing.

 

[snowflakes]

Just make sure you don't double count the hours. So if, like cs24 said, it's 40 hours a week with 5 hour shadowing, just make sure you only put 35 hours as volunteering.

 

[ridethecliche]

I wouldn't include it twice if that's what you're asking.

You can say that you interacted with patients and physicians, etc, but only if you spent time doing dedicated shadowing should you list it as a separate activity.

 

[karayaa]

I would call it "clinical observation" unless you have an agreement to shadow and you're following the doctor around.
I wouldn't double count it, but i'd write the description so that it was obvious you saw what was going on.
It also depends on if he's working as a doctor when you follow him around, or as a researcher.

 

[LizzyM]

Can you mulit-task? If the physician is a physician-scientist and you are getting a 360 view of his work week including the proportion of time spent on research and the amount of time spent in clinical service and perhaps the proportion spent teaching (lecture hall or bedside) and his own lifelong learning (attending lectures, grand rounds, etc) then I'd count any of the hours where you were watching him rather than actively doing work as "shadowing" and make it specific that you shadowed someone in academic medicine to see the multiple roles.

 

[V5RED]

I think it generally refers to the experience of being in the room while the physician interacts with the patient in a private setting. In other words, one need not have asked to shadow before shadowing for shadowing to be considered shadowing.

That doesn't sound right at all. You can't just stalk random doctors in the hospital and claim you shadowed. You need their permission, plus a large part of the experience is getting to ask the physician questions about their perspective on working in medicine. You don't get the real experience by ninjaing yourself around doctors. Plus, who would be your contact?

 

[Lamel]

That doesn't sound right at all. You can't just stalk random doctors in the hospital and claim you shadowed. You need their permission, plus a large part of the experience is getting to ask the physician questions about their perspective on working in medicine. You don't get the real experience by ninjaing yourself around doctors. Plus, who would be your contact?

I don't think he means "ninjaing" around. That would be weird. I believe the OP has permission from his clinical research PI to follow him around, but since OP is actually a researcher there he is wondering if he can list some of the shadowing like experiences that are included in his position as "shadowing" in the AMCAS. Which I see no problem with frankly.

 

[V5RED]

I don't think he means "ninjaing" around. That would be weird. I believe the OP has permission from his clinical research PI to follow him around, but since OP is actually a researcher there he is wondering if he can list some of the shadowing like experiences that are included in his position as "shadowing" in the AMCAS. Which I see no problem with frankly.

People have tried to do that as volunteers and have those count as shadowing hours because they didn't want to contact physicians and ask to shadow. If OP is actually shadowing, that is probably fine. The post I quoted would mean that visiting a sick relative would count as shadowing which some people have also tried to count as shadowing.

 

[Styrene]

People have tried to do that as volunteers and have those count as shadowing hours because they didn't want to contact physicians and ask to shadow. If OP is actually shadowing, that is probably fine. The post I quoted would mean that visiting a sick relative would count as shadowing which some people have also tried to count as shadowing.

I think there was a misunderstanding. But I would definitely say that for shadowing to reach its full potential as a learning experience, it should be set up in a traditional way, so the student can follow the doctor for the full workday with the student's only responsibility being to learn. If nothing else, it will certainly highlight just how busy most physicians really are, which is a fact I think a lot of premeds don't realize--at least many of the ones I know. For example, spending a day at ortho clinic was genuinely eye-opening for me, being that it was patient after patient for 9 hours, and something like 60 patients, some crying, some yelling, some looking for opioids, some facing disability, and some making miraculous recoveries.

Thanks for sparking the clarification.

 

[wizz415]

Sorry for the late response, I've had a terribly busy weekend and Monday.

I don't think he means "ninjaing" around. That would be weird. I believe the OP has permission from his clinical research PI to follow him around, but since OP is actually a researcher there he is wondering if he can list some of the shadowing like experiences that are included in his position as "shadowing" in the AMCAS. Which I see no problem with frankly.

Yes, you are absolutely correct on what I am and what I was asking.

Can you mulit-task? If the physician is a physician-scientist and you are getting a 360 view of his work week including the proportion of time spent on research and the amount of time spent in clinical service and perhaps the proportion spent teaching (lecture hall or bedside) and his own lifelong learning (attending lectures, grand rounds, etc) then I'd count any of the hours where you were watching him rather than actively doing work as "shadowing" and make it specific that you shadowed someone in academic medicine to see the multiple roles.

Ah, great to know! He is a physician-scientist and I'm currently working on several projects for him. One project does have me locked up in a laboratory performing different trials, but the rest of my work does center around doing clinical service with him. Since this is a teaching hospital, I have watched him teach and attend lectures with him. Great to know though!

Thanks everyone!