“Clinical Trial”

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thesauce

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This may open a whole can of worms, but I had an interesting patient encounter that I believe is worth sharing.

Recently, I saw a patient with history of high grade DCIS. She had lumpectomy and then went to a “major center” for radiation.

She was offered a clinical trial that was 10 fractions of whole breast RT with SIB boost. She said that the trial was presented as an improvement in convenience and she did not get the impression there was any increased risk of side effects, so of course she agreed to it.

She described the experience as being really hard on her in terms of fatigue, early skin reaction, breast swelling and pain. She wanted to discontinue, but was encouraged to finish it out.

Post-RT, her breast swelled considerably and she spent several weeks off work essentially not moving her arm due to the pain. Most acute effects eventually resolved, but she does have marked residual/persistent fibrosis, hyperpigmentation, and tenderness in the treated breast.

She said that when she mentioned the toxicities to her team…
“You know it was funny. You could really tell that they wanted to make the trial successful because they kept down-playing what I was experiencing saying it wasn’t so bad or it wasn’t due to the radiation.”

To me, this encompasses a lot of what is wrong in our field. We have major academic institution (most would say a top 10) that runs a hypofrac trial with no potential for improved oncological outcome (aside from the possibility of academic advancement), no intellectual horsepower required to create or run the trial, but a distinct impression of coercion of patients to force the endpoints to be what they want them to be (non-inferior). This is no different than falsifying medical research in a lab.

Given my own and many of my colleagues’ experience with some of these new hypofrac regimens, this is likely much more common than we all want to believe.

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I cannot wrap my head around the rationale for this trial. If you want to do whole breast + boost and limit it to 10 fractions... just do 26/5 + 10/5 like they did on FAST-FORWARD. If you want SIB then do 26/5 and 30/5 to the cavity. We ALREADY have those options. What is this trial even purporting to add to clinical outcomes?
 
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UK/Canadian fractionation is the sweet spot for adjuvant breast. If you don't believe that you're ignoring data or being willfully obtuse.

You mean for whole breast? Then I agree

Otherwise Livi Florence beats all
 
I cannot wrap my head around the rationale for this trial. If you want to do whole breast + boost and limit it to 10 fractions... just do 26/5 + 10/5 like they did on FAST-FORWARD. If you want SIB then do 26/5 and 30/5 to the cavity. We ALREADY have those options. What is this trial even purporting to add to clinical outcomes?

You got me. The premise of the trial is bad enough, but not what has me concerned.
 
This may open a whole can of worms, but I had an interesting patient encounter that I believe is worth sharing.

Recently, I saw a patient with history of high grade DCIS. She had lumpectomy and then went to a “major center” for radiation.

She was offered a clinical trial that was 10 fractions of whole breast RT with SIB boost. She said that the trial was presented as an improvement in convenience and she did not get the impression there was any increased risk of side effects, so of course she agreed to it.

She described the experience as being really hard on her in terms of fatigue, early skin reaction, breast swelling and pain. She wanted to discontinue, but was encouraged to finish it out.

Post-RT, her breast swelled considerably and she spent several weeks off work essentially not moving her arm due to the pain. Most acute effects eventually resolved, but she does have marked residual/persistent fibrosis, hyperpigmentation, and tenderness in the treated breast.

She said that when she mentioned the toxicities to her team…
“You know it was funny. You could really tell that they wanted to make the trial successful because they kept down-playing what I was experiencing saying it wasn’t so bad or it wasn’t due to the radiation.”

To me, this encompasses a lot of what is wrong in our field. We have major academic institution (most would say a top 10) that runs a hypofrac trial with no potential for improved oncological outcome (aside from the possibility of academic advancement), no intellectual horsepower required to create or run the trial, but a distinct impression of coercion of patients to force the endpoints to be what they want them to be (non-inferior). This is no different than falsifying medical research in a lab.

Given my own and many of my colleagues’ experience with some of these new hypofrac regimens, this is likely much more common than we all want to believe.
I’m a trialist and I agree with you 110%. I try not to malign peoples intentions, but fractionation trials are easy because they are cheep. You can run them with minimal funding. You can bill 10 fx to insurance…they only care about that it’s less than their max dose. This is going to sound harsh, but I think most of these studies let people play translational scientist without getting funding or convincing anyone other than the IRB (which likely has no rad onc input) that the idea has merit.

And not talking about tox is crazy. If it’s a trial comparing 2 tested arms and putting them head to head, sure, you should have a sense how toxic both arms are. If it’s never been tested…wtf?
 
I used to get calls about proctitis from people I had never seen who had undergone protons for prostate cancer. They had called the ivory tower who instructed them to contact their local prostate rad onc, which is me. I had my office instruct them to immediately return to the ivory tower so that their experience can be documented in the trial data. I wonder how many patients who underwent protons for prostate cancer never had their proctitis reported in the data.
 
This isn't the exact trial I was referencing (I'm still looking) but it's a start:

 
You know, I think you may disagree, we have kind of backed into a logical corner where 40/15 is bound to have better cosmesis than 42.5/16; the "proven" bad cosmesis of 26/5 should be in the same bucket (↓↓↓) of 42.5/16 (at least versus 40/15), or more so. And again... I'd love to know if you Rx'd any 40/15 (no boost!) in 2024. I, personally, love 40/15, and constantly prescribe it: it has the lowest published 5y LR of any breast regimen I've ever seen, but I don't feel it's superior in any significant fashion to 26/5 and never will feel so. (Full disclosure: I need to keep the lights on and can't go "hog wild" with 26/5... it leads to women having to come in two-thirds less, but it also leads to having two-thirds less daily on-treats!)

The thing is, again, a logical conclusion of your logic (and maybe the data?!) is that 40/15 has the "proven best cosmesis" of any whole breast regimen ever reported in the history of medicine... but no one in America is commonly using it.


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27/5 is 69, 76, 85, 100, 124, respectively, if you wanted to know, and this 40/27/26 data probably shows the alpha/beta of normal breast lies in the ~2-3 range, and closer to 2 than 3.

I don't disagree that 40/15 is likely better cosmesis wise than 42.5/16. I generally stop at 15 treatments for WBI without boost. And yes, I have.
And if you're offering (or even mostly) doing 40/15, then great! We're in agreement!
 
@Neuronix and other admin: I recommend we take all of the discussion on various breast cancer fractionation on this thread and put it in a separate thread and leave this one for the very important topic of falsifying medical research
 
@Neuronix and other admin: I recommend we take all of the discussion on various breast cancer fractionation on this thread and put it in a separate thread and leave this one for the very important topic of falsifying medical research
You know, what I whole heartedly agree. Rest of breast fractionation discussion has been shuttled into its own thread.

Let's re-discuss an academic center basically looking to falsify medical research with the goal of 'careerism'.
 
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