Closing of the Residency program!

[santa_claus]

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Hey everyone, I really need your advice! I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but this is the first time I've heard of this. Here is the gist of the story: my sister is doing a peds residency in NYC. Yesterday, the urgent meeting was called and the residents were told that the program is closing in 2008 due to the "lack of funds". Basically, they were told to go and find themselves another residency. My sister will be able to finish her second year there but she has to find herself a new home for the final year! She is pretty devastated and I feel really sorry for her. I was wondering if any of you ever found yourself in similar situation, or know anyone who did, and what is the best course of action to take? How difficult it is to find another residency? Is it possible at all? I am particularly worried that maybe other hospitals will be reluctant to take an outsider, even though my sister had stellar scores on the board exams.
Thanks for any advice!
-lk

 

[NinerNiner999]

Did she know this was coming at all or was this just sprung on her last minute? 2.5 months isn't much notice....

 

[Faebinder]

Second year pediatrics shouldnt have that much of a hard time finding a PGY 2 or 3 or even a PGY 1 spot because she is more marketable than a fresh med student considering she has 2 years of residency experience.

 

[santa_claus]

That's what I told her, more for consolation! I mean, as opposed to PG-1, a PG-3 will be a more qualified cheap labor for the same price. It's not 2.5 mths notice - it's 1 year and 2 mth notice, which leaves the residents plenty of time, but still sux because they have to look for another residency 😡 She is just finishing off her 1st year, and she can stay for the 2nd. And, of course, no mention was made during the interview about the possibility of the program closing, otherwise she would have never gone there.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

this happens occasionally. finding spot should not be too hard. programs lose the accreditation and fold from time to time. there are some recent examples of 2 large hospitals losing all of there residency programs (wayne state and king-drew).

when this occurs, residency programs are allowed to accept another ACGME supported resident into the program without the financial burden. now, if the program does some shady **** and does not release the resident funds (like in the wayne state case), then the program is responsible for funding the resident. in that case, programs where money is tight may be less likely to take on that cost. in general, most programs are more than willing to accept a resident from a fallen program. i have seen in many cases a resident end up at a better program in the end.

tell your sister not to fret. for her it is a major pain in the @ss. final year, comfortable with her surroundings and staff; now, starting anew. in the end it should be ok.

 

[Medical123]

I really feel sorry the incoming interns who may have matched to that program not knowing what they were getting into.

I know that when I was interviewing for IM, there was a PGY3 candidate interviewing for the same program. Her program was closing and she told me that though it was devastating, they were working with her to help find a new position. Hopefully, your sister's administration will work with her also.

Since she is in NYC, there are bound to be a number of programs there that are familiar with the quality of her program and the graduates. Hopefully, some of these programs will have an opening for her and some of her colleagues.

 

[BADMD]

there are some recent examples of 2 large hospitals losing all of there residency programs (wayne state and king-drew). .

Wayne State did not lose their residency programs. There was a huge financial fight between Wayne State and the Detroit Medical Center about the residency programs. The ACGME threatened to pull accreditation if the dispute could not be settled. However the sides came to an agreement and the programs are accredited. A few moved to a different hospital, but they are still hosted by Wayne States SOM.

 

[f_w]

If she is lucky, she can find a PGY-2 position starting this July. Programs in the process of closing are a hellish place to be at. The faculty is bailing, the better residents are bailing, mood is sour, staffing is short, extra calls have to be done etc. The earlier she can get out of that hole, the better.

She should't bank on the residency program helping her. She is on her own. Key is to keep her trap shut about her own plans and the internal politics and to quietly look for a better place.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

Wayne State did not lose their residency programs. There was a huge financial fight between Wayne State and the Detroit Medical Center about the residency programs. The ACGME threatened to pull accreditation if the dispute could not be settled. However the sides came to an agreement and the programs are accredited. A few moved to a different hospital, but they are still hosted by Wayne States SOM.

sorry, may be wayne state did not loose all of their programs, but they did loose the ortho program. the only ortho residents they have are the chiefs who are completeing their residency. we have 2 of their residents in our program. the wayne situation is very shady. the residents had a hard time finding new programs because DMC did not release the funds. i know this for fact, and they did not get a residency for this coming year (fact). as far as the other programs, i did assumed they were also in the same situation. the wayne situation is a political nightmare that residents where caught in the middle of and should never have happend.

i having 5 partners who worked there prior to its fall. they know all of the key players and politics of the university and administration. i also have 2 residents in our program from wayne and we (our department) funded their positions until the ACGME situation got figured out. that type of political BS should never happen.

 

[8744]

Hey everyone, I really need your advice! I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but this is the first time I've heard of this. Here is the gist of the story: my sister is doing a peds residency in NYC. Yesterday, the urgent meeting was called and the residents were told that the program is closing in 2008 due to the "lack of funds". Basically, they were told to go and find themselves another residency. My sister will be able to finish her second year there but she has to find herself a new home for the final year! She is pretty devastated and I feel really sorry for her. I was wondering if any of you ever found yourself in similar situation, or know anyone who did, and what is the best course of action to take? How difficult it is to find another residency? Is it possible at all? I am particularly worried that maybe other hospitals will be reluctant to take an outsider, even though my sister had stellar scores on the board exams.
Thanks for any advice!
-lk

The ACGME may require that she finish the last two years of her training at the same program. It did for Family Medicine. In other words, she needs to find a PGY-2 spot for next year and not hang out for the additional year.

 

[8744]

If she is lucky, she can find a PGY-2 position starting this July. Programs in the process of closing are a hellish place to be at. The faculty is bailing, the better residents are bailing, mood is sour, staffing is short, extra calls have to be done etc. The earlier she can get out of that hole, the better.

She should't bank on the residency program helping her. She is on her own. Key is to keep her trap shut about her own plans and the internal politics and to quietly look for a better place.

Truer words were never spoken on SDN. I was at a program that closed (fortunately I had matched into a different program and specialty before the hammer dropped) and being at a dying programs are bizzare places.

 

[santa_claus]

Thank you for all your support and helpful replies! 😍 So I'm going to tell my sister that the best thing to do is
-move her *ss and start looking for a new place now (and try to find one by July)
-not to rely on the hospital -- but by now she knows that nothing is reliable in NY, including bus schedules. Especially the New York-Toronto bus schedule!
-if she has a question, ask here...haha watch a flood of them come in!

 

[Oliver313]

As one of the displaced Detroit residents I have some advice for your sister…

We had about 8 months or so or leeway of knowing that are program was going down. In that time we as residents learned a lot about many things, including who we could trust, how to fill out a PIF and a brief history of local and state politics. That being said here’s some advice…

1) First and foremost take care of your patients…however that being said…
2) Trust No one! (except your fellow residents who are in the same boat as you – those are the only people you can count on and you need to stick together)
3) Trust No one! (The most important piece of advice – thus said a second time)
4) Start the process now to relocate – get to know your RRC administrative head
5) Bypass the DIO – he/she is probably helpless/useless/clueless even though this event is in their job description
6) Don’t go quietly – i.e. make noise and don’t “settle” for what is presented to you. Your options are not what “they” give you, but what you can find/make for yourself
7) Don’t be concerned about others (non-residents) in the department because they are not going to look out for you. Also, don’t feel that you “owe” the department or medical school/hospital anything. They are screwing you royally and you don’t need to make sure that their call schedule or clinics are covered.
8) Seriously consider a lawsuit – chances are that the certifying board might require the last two years in residency to finish in the same spot and thus you might have to repeat a year and so you would miss out on your LAST year’s salary. The powers that be have messed with your lives and this is least you can get in return.
9) If you have options, look for a program that is similar in nature to your previous one and can also complement any deficiencies that you had in your old one. I don’t know how relevant this is with pediatrics, but it is very pertinent with surgical subspecialties.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask any questions.

 

[drtx]

What Oliver says is VERY good advice. I have a good friend who had a brother at Wayne State who was a 4th year in their Ortho program when this all went down. People have no idea how politically charged a residency program can be because there are a lot of funds tied into having a program and unfortunately some people are just corrupt selfish bastards. It can get ugly. He is also right about trusting NO ONE and the uselesness of DIOs.