Closing the gap???

Started by willen101383
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I'll have to agree with you here. 3.5 and 3.56 really aren't different enough for anyone to make a big deal about in my opinion. And really, the 1.6 or whatever it was difference in MCAT scores isn't that remarkable. On a test with 45 points available, 1 point is important of course, but a 1.6 difference really is fairly minimal I'd say. As far as sample size goes, the size is good (3,000 people), but it would probably be more informative to have at least half of the applicant pool (12,000ish) respond. Either way, I think the numbers are definitely positive for the osteopathic programs out there. I just can't wait for someone to come on here and tell us how osteopathic students are far inferior to allopathic ones. 🙂
 
I know 🙂 I was going to post this in the pre allo forum but decided against it for obvious reasons.

While I dont know my classes' actual stats they did tell us stats about the actual cycle.

At PCOM there were about 7000 applicants for 270ish spots. Thats pretty damn competitive IMO.
 
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elftown said:
I only read a couple sentences out of that document, but I think you're missing a huge point...

It does not include the GPA and MCAT of people who applied to only MD schools.
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True, it doesnt mention that which is obviously a factor. However it did have many respondents who were accepted to MD schools with GPAs and MCATs similar to DO schools. At any rate I am not trying to claim it is just as difficult to get into DO schools as it is to MD schools....just that I found the survey interesting.
 
I am sure that I will get smoked for saying this, but it is statistically more difficult to get into a DO school than it is an MD school.

Roughly, 42K applicants for 22K MD seats and 13K applicants for 5K DO seats.
 
Spderjhn said:
I am sure that I will get smoked for saying this, but it is statistically more difficult to get into a DO school than it is an MD school.

Roughly, 42K applicants for 22K MD seats and 13K applicants for 5K DO seats.
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Numbers absolutely do NOT tell the whole story in this case. That is absolutely an untrue statement.
 
DrBowtie said:
If they were mutually exclusive pools and random chance.
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You are right, and that is why I nearly did not throw that stat out there. It truly goes to show you that you can find stats to prove/disprove anything you want them to.

Honestly, by those numbers it is more improbable to gain admittance to a DO school than an MD school - that is all they show.
 
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Spderjhn said:
Explain to me how that is emabarassing.
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Because your argument was based on numbers DO schools are more difficult to get into but didn't take into account any of the important variables to make such a sweeping claim. Pure number of applicants is virtually irrelevant
 
wanna_be_do said:
Not really. It shows that quoting statistics is a lot easier than understanding and applying them correctly.
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Ah but what fun is actually taking a statistics class when you can pull three numbers out of a 20 page report and then shove it in everyone's face?
 
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I think what it shows, and you may all be missing my point, is that competition for med school, albeit MD or DO, is fierce today and more so than ever. It makes me wonder if coming out of the Army to try and get into med school will pay off.

I am relatively new to this site, but cannot believe how fast people are to jump on someone here.

Honestly the gap is closing and it will be for the betterment of patient care, and I don't think anyone could argue with that.
 
who cares about the "gap" between md and do acceptances, its meaningless. the gap that is of significance comes when applying for residencies.
 
It was stupid of me to even post this. Every time a statistic gets posted on here it gets analyzed to death. Oh well.
 
cliffhuxtableDO said:
who cares about the "gap" between md and do acceptances, its meaningless. the gap that is of significance comes when applying for residencies.
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I think "gaps" in general are meaningless. We're all going to be doctors some day, we're all going to be specializing in similar fields of medicine, and we're all going to be treating patients. Patients aren't going to care what you scored on the MCAT or what your undergraduate GPA was or what your board scores were. They're going to care that you 1.) passed the state boards and are capable of caring for them and 2.) provide them with the best care possible. Yes the stellar board scores and such will help you land a more "attractive" residency, but the end result is still pretty much the same. Maybe I just have a very relaxed and uncompetitive frame of mind though...
 
willen101383 said:
It was stupid of me to even post this. Every time a statistic gets posted on here it gets analyzed to death. Oh well.
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Looks to me like all yours got was a preliminary scan. And it failed.

I think this is an interesting topic, we just need the correct data before drawing a conclusion.
 
Slane said:
They're going to care that you 1.) passed the state boards and are capable of caring for them and 2.) provide them with the best care possible.
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Those are two pretty widely disparate standards (and I'm assuming by "state boards" you meant either Steps 1-3 or specialty certification boards). The former is an evaluation of minimal competence, the latter is the optimal confluence of knowledge, technical skill, and coordination.

Slane said:
Yes the stellar board scores and such will help you land a more "attractive" residency, but the end result is still pretty much the same.
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A rather sweeping statement.
 
The GPA difference is bigger than it appears. AACOMAS replaces prior grades for retakes, AMCAS averages. If a student gets an F and then retakes for an A, AMCAS states that the student has a C, whereas AACOMAS shows an A. Right now there is a continuum of schools, with the best osteopathic schools, being somewhere about where the poorest Allo schools are. DMU and WesternU are at rough parity with Drexel. At the top end, DO schools cannot compete with the likes of Harvard and Hopkins.
 
👍 We both tell it like it is.

FutureCTDoc said:
The GPA difference is bigger than it appears. AACOMAS replaces prior grades for retakes, AMCAS averages. If a student gets an F and then retakes for an A, AMCAS states that the student has a C, whereas AACOMAS shows an A. Right now there is a continuum of schools, with the best osteopathic schools, being somewhere about where the poorest Allo schools are. DMU and WesternU are at rough parity with Drexel. At the top end, DO schools cannot compete with the likes of Harvard and Hopkins.
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FutureCTDoc said:
The GPA difference is bigger than it appears. AACOMAS replaces prior grades for retakes, AMCAS averages. If a student gets an F and then retakes for an A, AMCAS states that the student has a C, whereas AACOMAS shows an A. Right now there is a continuum of schools, with the best osteopathic schools, being somewhere about where the poorest Allo schools are. DMU and WesternU are at rough parity with Drexel. At the top end, DO schools cannot compete with the likes of Harvard and Hopkins.
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I dont really know how you are coming to this conclusion...please elaborate.

As far as saying "with the best osteopathic schools being soewhere about where the poorest allo schools are," I am going to have to disagree with you there big time. I did a masters at drexel med and am now at PCOM and the teaching, and quality of lecturers at PCOM BLOWWWWW Drexel away. There is literally no comparison. And I did exceedingly well at Drexel...so that isnt me just being grumpy about getting poor grades.

I just dont think there is any real way to compare the quality of education you get at a DO school vs any MD school. Maybe admission stats-wise or match list wise...and maybe that is what you were getting at all along. I just dont feel as though admission stats make the school, or really even tell much about the quality of the applicant a significant portion of the time.

I had a horrible ugrad GPA. I worked for 4 years in my (allied medical) field and got a masters as I mentioned. I did very very well, but that wasnt enough to offset that bad ugrad GPA....at somewhere around a 2.9 cGPA. I got accepted at both a "middle to lower tier" MD school and several DO schools. I feel and can tell that I am SO much more prepared for medical school than many of my classmates. I have been out in the work world, learned a lot in my field/masters....and am just used to the way graduate level education goes. I am doing well so far in med school......but if you look at me on "paper" I am a pretty ****ty applicant pure numbers wise.
 
willen101383 said:
I dont really know how you are coming to this conclusion...please elaborate.

As far as saying "with the best osteopathic schools being soewhere about where the poorest allo schools are," I am going to have to disagree with you there big time. I did a masters at drexel med and am now at PCOM and the teaching, and quality of lecturers at PCOM BLOWWWWW Drexel away. There is literally no comparison. And I did exceedingly well at Drexel...so that isnt me just being grumpy about getting poor grades.

I just dont think there is any real way to compare the quality of education you get at a DO school vs any MD school. Maybe admission stats-wise or match list wise...and maybe that is what you were getting at all along. I just dont feel as though admission stats make the school, or really even tell much about the quality of the applicant a significant portion of the time.

I had a horrible ugrad GPA. I worked for 4 years in my (allied medical) field and got a masters as I mentioned. I did very very well, but that wasnt enough to offset that bad ugrad GPA....at somewhere around a 2.9 cGPA. I got accepted at both a "middle to lower tier" MD school and several DO schools. I feel and can tell that I am SO much more prepared for medical school than many of my classmates. I have been out in the work world, learned a lot in my field/masters....and am just used to the way graduate level education goes. I am doing well so far in med school......but if you look at me on "paper" I am a pretty ****ty applicant pure numbers wise.
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Admission stats are important. I don't want someone who had a 2.5 to operate on me. It means one of a few things, they weren't focused, didn't work hard enough or weren't smart enough. A GPA and MCAT are indicative of how hard an individual works and how smart they are. MD schools have better admission stats, as AMCAS doesn't allow for such a lenient retake policy.

The MCAT scores are higher by 3 or a standard deviation on average. The lowest stats for a DO school 3.2, 24 at WVSOM are eclipsed by WUSTL's 3.8, 34 that's 10 points on the MCAT or 3 and a third standard deviations and the difference between a student who mainly gets As and one who mainly gets Bs and this is with grade replacement.

I disagree that PCOM "blows away" Drexel. The 3rd and 4th year are far better there and that's what really counts. With so few DO schools having university hospitals it will be a long way for training to truly be a match.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Admission stats are important. I don't want someone who had a 2.5 to operate on me. It means one of a few things, they weren't focused, didn't work hard enough or weren't smart enough. A GPA and MCAT are indicative of how hard an individual works and how smart they are. MD schools have better admission stats, as AMCAS doesn't allow for such a lenient retake policy.

The MCAT scores are higher by 3 or a standard deviation on average. The lowest stats for a DO school 3.2, 24 at WVSOM are eclipsed by WUSTL's 3.8, 34 that's 10 points on the MCAT or 3 and a third standard deviations and the difference between a student who mainly gets As and one who mainly gets Bs and this is with grade replacement.

I disagree that PCOM "blows away" Drexel. The 3rd and 4th year are far better there and that's what really counts. With so few DO schools having university hospitals it will be a long way for training to truly be a match.
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If you're so hell-bent on pointing out the disparities, why did you not pick a BS/MD program?
 
Bacchus said:
If you're so hell-bent on pointing out the disparities, why did you not pick a BS/MD program?
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I'm committed to advancing the cause of osteopathic medicine and I know it's going to make some people uncomfortable. That's fine. I'm happy to be a social gadfly. I believe that osteopathic medical schools need to make certain changes to become more competitive.
 
I don't know about Future CT doctor's case, but not everybody can get into an MD school. Bad grades, MCAT, and luck play important roles. 🙄

Bacchus said:
If you're so hell-bent on pointing out the disparities, why did you not pick a BS/MD program?
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I don't really care what GPA someone got in their psych/sociology/engineering/biology major 15 years ago. As a patient, I care more about their board and licensing exam scores.

I'd rather be operated on by someone who had a 2.5 in undergrad, but scored 99th percentile on the USMLEs than someone who had a 3.9 uGPA w/ 85th percentile. You know how your parents tell you that the popular kids in high school might not be that successful in 10 years? That is how I feel about uGPAs sometimes.
 
What about somebody that got a 3.9uGPA AND scored a 99 percentile on the board exams?

taylormade2006 said:
I don't really care what GPA someone got in their psych/sociology/engineering/biology major 15 years ago. As a patient, I care more about their board and licensing exam scores.

I'd rather be operated on by someone who had a 2.5 in undergrad, but scored 99th percentile on the USMLEs than someone who had a 3.9 uGPA w/ 85th percentile. You know how your parents tell you that the popular kids in high school might not be that successful in 10 years? That is how I feel about uGPAs sometimes.
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taylormade2006 said:
I don't really care what GPA someone got in their psych/sociology/engineering/biology major 15 years ago. As a patient, I care more about their board and licensing exam scores.

I'd rather be operated on by someone who had a 2.5 in undergrad, but scored 99th percentile on the USMLEs than someone who had a 3.9 uGPA w/ 85th percentile. You know how your parents tell you that the popular kids in high school might not be that successful in 10 years? That is how I feel about uGPAs sometimes.
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Exactly. I got my med school acceptances 4 years after i graduated college. A lot changed in those 4 years.
 
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chinocochino said:
What about somebody that got a 3.9uGPA AND scored a 99 percentile on the board exams?
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Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge the work and dedication that goes into earning a cumulative 3.9 GPA, however, I don't think that GPA should carry the weight that it does in this process. I do, however, concede that since the vast majority of applicants are coming straight out of undergrad that it is one of the few ways to consistently compare applicants (along with the MCAT).

I just wish that admissions committees were more interested in life/work/graduate level experiences, because they contribute a lot to the personality and maturity of applicants, and I feel like these traits are far too often overlooked, despite being essential to the development of competent and charismatic physicians. (This message is not meant to suggest that academic competency is non-essential.)
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Admission stats are important. I don't want someone who had a 2.5 to operate on me. It means one of a few things, they weren't focused, didn't work hard enough or weren't smart enough. A GPA and MCAT are indicative of how hard an individual works and how smart they are. MD schools have better admission stats, as AMCAS doesn't allow for such a lenient retake policy.

The MCAT scores are higher by 3 or a standard deviation on average. The lowest stats for a DO school 3.2, 24 at WVSOM are eclipsed by WUSTL's 3.8, 34 that's 10 points on the MCAT or 3 and a third standard deviations and the difference between a student who mainly gets As and one who mainly gets Bs and this is with grade replacement.

I disagree that PCOM "blows away" Drexel. The 3rd and 4th year are far better there and that's what really counts. With so few DO schools having university hospitals it will be a long way for training to truly be a match.
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And your experience with Drexel would be what? I hold a graduate degree from that institution. Hahnemann is a "far better" hospital than the other major hospitals PCOMers rotate at? I highly disagree. Hahnemann is a ****hole. I didnt even bother applying to drexel...thats how poorly I regarded their program....even tho I had the stats to get in. As far as university hospitals go. Many DO schools lack hospitals/rotation sites. That is important I agree. I wouldnt be going to certain DO schools. Different schools are painted with different brushes. PCOM for one had a university hospital for many years and ended up knocking it down. Was that a bad idea? Who knows. I have been told by administration that it made the college financially far stronger. Medical schools tend to be far better at teaching students...and worse at running hospitals. But it seems like nothing anyone says can change your opinions. Anyways back to my lowly PCOM studying. Good luck with your pre med courses this fall...and good luck whenever you end up applying.



OH and FYI. I had around a 2.5 ugrad GPA. It holds absolutely no bearing on my life now. And perhaps you should think about the fact that certain people may have circumstances that may interfere with their ability to do well undergrad. In my case my mother had breast cancer and all the sequalae go on during my undergrad years. How else would you explain a 2.5 to 3.75 grad GPA in far more difficult courses? Guess I wont be able to operate on you....oh well.
 
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taylormade2006 said:
Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge the work and dedication that goes into earning a cumulative 3.9 GPA, however, I don't think that GPA should carry the weight that it does in this process. I do, however, concede that since the vast majority of applicants are coming straight out of undergrad that it is one of the few ways to consistently compare applicants (along with the MCAT).

I just wish that admissions committees were more interested in life/work/graduate level experiences, because they contribute a lot to the personality and maturity of applicants, and I feel like these traits are far too often overlooked, despite being essential to the development of competent and charismatic physicians. (This message is not meant to suggest that academic competency is non-essential.)
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I honestly dont feel as if undergrad GPA even plays a role past medical school admissions....I really dont. As you stated however, it is the most reliable way to compare applicants. Certain schools really do care about your post grad experiences though....those are the schools you apply to.
 
Wow, is it just me or did starting medical school render these pithy, horrendously misinformed, n = 1, assumption based debates sooooo pointless (aside from an attitude like CTs who nitpicks to try and fix the issues)???

Two weeks ago I would have been ripping this discussion apart ... now I really, really don't care. Weird.
 
willen101383 said:
And your experience with Drexel would be what? I hold a graduate degree from that institution. Hahnemann is a "far better" hospital than the other major hospitals PCOMers rotate at? I highly disagree. Hahnemann is a ****hole. I didnt even bother applying to drexel...thats how poorly I regarded their program....even tho I had the stats to get in. As far as university hospitals go. Many DO schools lack hospitals/rotation sites. That is important I agree. I wouldnt be going to certain DO schools. Different schools are painted with different brushes. PCOM for one had a university hospital for many years and ended up knocking it down. Was that a bad idea? Who knows. I have been told by administration that it made the college financially far stronger. Medical schools tend to be far better at teaching students...and worse at running hospitals. But it seems like nothing anyone says can change your opinions. Anyways back to my lowly PCOM studying. Good luck with your pre med courses this fall...and good luck whenever you end up applying.



OH and FYI. I had around a 2.5 ugrad GPA. It holds absolutely no bearing on my life now. And perhaps you should think about the fact that certain people may have circumstances that may interfere with their ability to do well undergrad. In my case my mother had breast cancer and all the sequalae go on during my undergrad years. How else would you explain a 2.5 to 3.75 grad GPA in far more difficult courses? Guess I wont be able to operate on you....oh well.
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Great post. Thanks
 
JaggerPlate said:
Wow, is it just me or did starting medical school render these pithy, horrendously misinformed, n = 1, assumption based debates sooooo pointless (aside from an attitude like CTs who nitpicks to try and fix the issues)???

Two weeks ago I would have been ripping this discussion apart ... now I really, really don't care. Weird.
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But what innervates abductor pollucis longus? Quick!............. I need a good study break from time to time...hence the pointless SDN fights with premeds!!
 
willen101383 said:
I need a good study break from time to time
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Same. It's just funny to study for 5 hour straight and then log onto SDN and listen to what the 17 year old peanut gallery has to say about the differences between the osteopathic and allopathic training model, rankings of schools, matching, correlation between the MCAT and COMLEX, etc.
 
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Believe what you want to believe regarding stats, numbers, rankings whatever. Eventually you'll find yourself in a career position where mundane criticisms of opinions and relevant statistical analysis won't matter. Then the Hopkins and PCOMs can work together with a common career goal and certain cause. Until then, get the sand out of your panties.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Admission stats are important. I don't want someone who had a 2.5 to operate on me. It means one of a few things, they weren't focused, didn't work hard enough or weren't smart enough. A GPA and MCAT are indicative of how hard an individual works and how smart they are. MD schools have better admission stats, as AMCAS doesn't allow for such a lenient retake policy.
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I assure you that GPA means very little. A lot of people were immature in college. MCAT may mean a bit more, because it probably has more to do with potential. I know plenty of people who did exceptionally in med school with <3.0 GPAs. I can think of an ortho surgeon and a guy who matched hopkins in my class alone.


FutureCTDoc said:
I disagree that PCOM "blows away" Drexel. The 3rd and 4th year are far better there and that's what really counts. With so few DO schools having university hospitals it will be a long way for training to truly be a match.
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willen101383 said:
And your experience with Drexel would be what? I hold a graduate degree from that institution. Hahnemann is a "far better" hospital than the other major hospitals PCOMers rotate at? I highly disagree. Hahnemann is a ****hole. I didnt even bother applying to drexel...thats how poorly I regarded their program....even tho I had the stats to get in. As far as university hospitals go. Many DO schools lack hospitals/rotation sites. That is important I agree. I wouldnt be going to certain DO schools. Different schools are painted with different brushes. PCOM for one had a university hospital for many years and ended up knocking it down. Was that a bad idea? Who knows. I have been told by administration that it made the college financially far stronger. Medical schools tend to be far better at teaching students...and worse at running hospitals. But it seems like nothing anyone says can change your opinions. Anyways back to my lowly PCOM studying. Good luck with your pre med courses this fall...and good luck whenever you end up applying.
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Both are good schools but in terms of potential I think Drexel actually gives you better opportunities. Let's look at some more objective data. We'll take both match lists and compare the IM matches. Neither PCOM nor Drexel is a good match in IM so that shouldn't affect it.

PCOM:http://www.pcom.edu/student_life/student_affairs_main/match_list.html
Drexel: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9695061

Good PCOM matches: ?temple
Great PCOM matches: none
Excellent PCOM: none

Good Drexel matches: harbour UCLAx2, UCLA, tufts x 7, ?templex2
Great Drexel matches: UPMC x 4, Mayo x 2
Excellent Drexel matches: BIDMC x 4 (harvard), UPENN, Yale
 
Instatewaiter said:
I
PCOM:http://www.pcom.edu/student_life/student_affairs_main/match_list.html
Drexel: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9695061

Good PCOM matches: ?temple
Great PCOM matches: none
Excellent PCOM: none

Good Drexel matches: harbour UCLAx2, UCLA, tufts x 7, ?templex2
Great Drexel matches: UPMC x 4, Mayo x 2
Excellent Drexel matches: BIDMC x 4 (harvard), UPENN, Yale
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I want to play devil's advocate here and demonstrate how subjective match lists can really be. You classify them based on big names (granted, I know you're in a solid Allo IM program and know how to classify good vs. bad programs, etc, but just want to make a point). Let's do it by ROADS:

PCOM:

Rads: 4
Ophthalmology: 2
Anesthesiology: 6
Derm: 0 🙁
Surgical subs:
ENT/Facial Plastic: 3
PRS: 0
Ortho: 4

Drexel:

Rads: 5
Ophthalmology: 2
Anesthesiology: 6
Derm: 1
Surgical subs:
ENT/Facial Plastic: 2
PRS: 0
Ortho: 2

... pretty comparable there. Which means (drumroll) nothing!

I personally just wouldn't compare matchlists as a factor for much other than what the class was interested in.
 
JaggerPlate said:
I want to play devil's advocate here and demonstrate how subjective match lists can really be. You classify them based on big names (granted, I know you're in a solid Allo IM program and know how to classify good vs. bad programs, etc, but just want to make a point). Let's do it by ROADS:

PCOM:

Rads: 4
Ophthalmology: 2
Anesthesiology: 6
Derm: 0 🙁
Surgical subs:
ENT/Facial Plastic: 3
PRS: 0
Ortho: 4

Drexel:

Rads: 5
Ophthalmology: 2
Anesthesiology: 6
Derm: 1
Surgical subs:
ENT/Facial Plastic: 2
PRS: 0
Ortho: 2

... pretty comparable there. Which means (drumroll) nothing!

I personally just wouldn't compare matchlists as a factor for much other than what the class was interested in.
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While I will openly admit that I am nowhere close to even applying to residencies yet, I think different people have different opinions of what "better opportunities are." Drexel, just because they are a MD school, is going to have matches into Mayo,Harvard, etc.....and PCOM being a DO school is probably going to lack...or as many.

The question I always have about DO "stigma" at these programs is: Is it that they really believe DO applicants to be inferior, or are the PDs at these programs just trying to serve their own. I wonder how things would change if there was some sort of unified match.

As for my comments in this thread, regardless of opportunity at Drexel, I still stand by my decision to attend where I attend. I love the school, faculty, and the classmates I have grown close to. That is what is important to me, and I know that when match time comes, I will still have an opportunity to train in pretty much any field I want to....even if its not at MGH,BIDMC,etc.
 
willen101383 said:
While I will openly admit that I am nowhere close to even applying to residencies yet, I think different people have different opinions of what "better opportunities are." Drexel, just because they are a MD school, is going to have matches into Mayo,Harvard, etc.....and PCOM being a DO school is probably going to lack...or as many.

The question I always have about DO "stigma" at these programs is: Is it that they really believe DO applicants to be inferior, or are the PDs at these programs just trying to serve their own. I wonder how things would change if there was some sort of unified match.

As for my comments in this thread, regardless of opportunity at Drexel, I still stand by my decision to attend where I attend. I love the school, faculty, and the classmates I have grown close to. That is what is important to me, and I know that when match time comes, I will still have an opportunity to train in pretty much any field I want to....even if its not at MGH,BIDMC,etc.
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For PDs in New England there are very few DOs, there is one osteopathic school, UNECOM. Allo schools are UVM, Dartmouth, UMass, Harvard, Tufts, BU, Brown, UConn and Yale. There are 3 Ivies and all of these schools are regarded as top flight. In CT there are 6 or 7000 physicians, only 100 are DOs. There is only one osteopathic ophthalmologist in CT. For PDs at these program, there are few candidates of equal caliber. DOs tend to do less well than their allopathic counterparts on the USMLE. Even if they performed as well, it's a numbers game, especially at the level at which these programs are recruiting. I do believe at certain programs, it is an anti-osteopathic bias, whereas at others there are no good osteopathic candidates.
 
The only thing that matters in these debates are real numbers, and the newest ACGME match report had DO's doing better, even in competitive fields (although, only marginally), and this doesn't even include the DO match (though that might not count for much). So, DOs are doing better in the match (up to a 71% ACGME match rate this year), despite the increased number of applicants (foreign applicants are the ones who are suffering), but once again, most matches were in Primary Care.

As a DO, you have to expect that you probably have to do Primary Care(at this point, I think like 45% of DOs don't go into Primary Care). Don't carry a negative attitude about it. In Internal Medicine, you'll be a doctor, and making anywhere from 150K-200K, and only after 3 years of residency. You'll be in high demand, especially in the next 10-15 years or so (and most likely after that, as well). So, be happy, and just enjoy being a doc.

Man, these debates get really silly, especially the anecdotal evidence.
 
SoulinNeed said:
The only thing that matters in these debates are real numbers, and the newest ACGME match report had DO's doing better, even in competitive fields (although, only marginally), and this doesn't even include the DO match (though that might not count for much). So, DOs are doing better in the match (up to a 71% ACGME match rate this year), despite the increased number of applicants (foreign applicants are the ones who are suffering), but once again, most matches were in Primary Care.

As a DO, you have to expect that you probably have to do Primary Care(at this point, I think like 45% of DOs don't go into Primary Care). Don't carry a negative attitude about it. In Internal Medicine, you'll be a doctor, and making anywhere from 150K-200K, and only after 3 years of residency. You'll be in high demand, especially in the next 10-15 years or so (and most likely after that, as well). So, be happy, and just enjoy being a doc.

Man, these debates get really silly, especially the anecdotal evidence.
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You will probably have to do primary care? Oh **** I better drop out now. What about the other 50-60 percent that DONT do primary care??
 
willen101383 said:
You will probably have to do primary care? Oh **** I better drop out now. What about the other 50-60 percent that DONT do primary care??
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You're being sarcastic, right? Cause my whole point is that Primary care isn't so bad, and the last numbers I looked at had like 60% of DOs doing Primary Care.
 
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SoulinNeed said:
The only thing that matters in these debates are real numbers, and the newest ACGME match report had DO's doing better, even in competitive fields (although, only marginally), and this doesn't even include the DO match (though that might not count for much). So, DOs are doing better in the match (up to a 71% ACGME match rate this year), despite the increased number of applicants (foreign applicants are the ones who are suffering), but once again, most matches were in Primary Care.

As a DO, you have to expect that you probably have to do Primary Care(at this point, I think like 45% of DOs don't go into Primary Care). Don't carry a negative attitude about it. In Internal Medicine, you'll be a doctor, and making anywhere from 150K-200K, and only after 3 years of residency. You'll be in high demand, especially in the next 10-15 years or so (and most likely after that, as well). So, be happy, and just enjoy being a doc.

Man, these debates get really silly, especially the anecdotal evidence.
Click to expand...

LOL. God ... I've had enough SDN for a while. Listen to absolutely nothing in this post.
 
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