CNA to DOC

[tahitian3]

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Hello all,
I have applied to 2 nursing schools and I'm currently completing pre-nursing classes. In spite of the nursing shortage my school (the one I'm doing pre-nursing classes at and also applied to) the lack of educators has cause only about half of the applicants to be accepted (and even that is SPLIT between 3 groups, those who applied for the traditional curriculum, for the accelerated program, and those people from one of our sister schools- Which, by the way have their own nursing program🙄 ). So even with my okay grades, I'm still thinking of alternatives if I am not accepted to either of the schools I applied to.
I also want to go to med school in the future. If I am not accepted to any nursing programs I'm heading straight for the gold, instead of the 2 years I would have to wait if I was completing a nursing program!!!! Due to money issues, I believe I will have to work while completing post-bacc pre-med classes. I was thinking of becoming a CNA. In my city, most institutions have long waiting lists for their CNA program, but I've found one way out in the boon docks that can take me this summer.
So my question is, do you all think becoming a CNA will be a good way to earn cash (part-time of course) as a pre-med student?
After this semester I will have completed all of the pre-nursing classes (except for nutrition- a class that most schools want you to take AS a nursing student, not as a pre-nursing student). What if after my post-bacc program I'm not accepted? or what if I'm kicked out of med school a couple of years into the program? Will it still be feasible for me to try to get into nursing school (even though my pre-reqs may have been completed 3-4 years prior) ? Would I have to take all of the classes (Anat & Phys, chem, micro etc.) to apply to nursing school?
Please help😕 I've been driving myself crazy thinking of the possibilities that lie ahead.
All advise is appreciated.

 

[tahitian3]

oops I meant, would I have to take all of the pre-nursing courses OVER again...?
my bad

 

[tahitian3]

bump

 

[Dr JPH]

My own personal opinion...


If you eventually want to become a physician, go right for medical school. Don't take a spot in nursing school from someone who wants to truly become a nurse. There are too few nurses out there as it is. Nursing is a separate and valued profession, not a stepping stone.

 

[red-rat]

CNA Is a great way to make good money while going to school. I make 30,000 a year working as a Home Health Aide. I work full time in summer and "part time" during the school year. My GPA is still very good. My secret is working sleepovers almost every night. Basically I get paid to sleep.

Give it a try.

 

[BiggMann79]

I'm in medical school now, and although I never had intentions of being a nurse I worked as a CNA for a year before starting med school. I really kind of fell into the job. I was needing some medical experience to go on my application so I spoke with a friend of my mothers who was a nursing recruiter. She said they could hire me as a nurses aide even though I had never had a class much less a certificate. I'm still really now sure how they pulled that one, but I basically learned it on the job and (according to the nurses) got pretty good at it.

I will warn you though, depending on what type of position you get the job can be very, very difficult. I worked nights on a medical-surgical unit and usually had a patient load of around 15-20 (which was usually divided by about 2-3 RN's/LPN's). Having a charge nurse with an attitude problem doesn't help matters either🙂

I learned quite a bit during that year because I spent as much time as possible reading H&P's.

It can be a great way to learn quite a bit while in school, and the money is not that bad.

If you want to be a doctor though then just go for that. I really don't understand this mindset of "working your way up" in the health care profession. I guess it's pretty common though based on what I've read on these forums.

 

[hlchess]

I'm just curious, but are there many men that work as CNAs? Or is it mostly women (like nurses)?

I'm also pre-med and looking for some medical experience.

 

[Mr.Brightside]

I'm just curious, but are there many men that work as CNAs? Or is it mostly women (like nurses)?

I'm also pre-med and looking for some medical experience.

FWIW, I'm going to be a junior in high school, and I'm taking a class that will let me get my CNA next summer, and I'm a guy.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Hey hlchess

Guys are about 10% of nurses (RN's) in general. CNA's and LPN's are NOT nurses. It is important to differentiate the two as the scope of practice is incredibly different as is the responsibility level.

Men in nursing seems to be attracted to a specific genre of nursing. I graduated and went right to ER, transitioned to a level 1 trauma team, then did some ICU, Back to the ER and the last 3 years i have been a flight nurse in a helicopter. We fly to trauma on the freeway, people who are extremely far from a hospital and as a higher level of care we take patients from ground medics who cant handle them.

If your interested shadow an RN in the hospital in the ER or ICU. These tend to be the reas men are attracted to.

Oh yah, there were 5 guys in my class and 110 class members. I dated alot in nursing school and ended up marrying one. Muahha. Fringe benefits 🙂

 

[benelswick]

The up-side of bottom level healthcare is they tend to be flexible and will work with you while your going to school. If your hospital is unionized you will get better wages...but you could definitely make more doing something else. The experience will be good your first year--the hospital culture in itself takes some getting used to. After a year you learn just how stratified the system is and how your curiosity and desire to learn really just doesn't fit into you workload and just getting thru your shift--atleast that was how it was for me.

Recently I've been investigating allied health schools like ultrasound and rad tech to see if i could get a bachelor's while getting trained in a profession. But I came around again to realize how limited the crtical thinking is in these jobs, and how the education puts a ceiling on what you learn. I decided I preferred pure science training and a segway into paid research while I'm applying to med school. Anyway maybe your experience will be different I just can't stand having sever limits on what I can learn.--Ben.

 

[fab4fan]

LPNs are most assuredly nurses (LPN= Licensed Practical Nurse)

Medical assistants are not nurses, and they should not be referred to as nurses, something that happens all the time in doctors' offices everywhere.

CNAs are not nurses, either. However, CNAs (and MAs) are essential members of the healthcare team.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

LPNs are most assuredly nurses (LPN= Licensed Practical Nurse)

Medical assistants are not nurses, and they should not be referred to as nurses, something that happens all the time in doctors' offices everywhere.

CNAs are not nurses, either. However, CNAs (and MAs) are essential members of the healthcare team.

Hey Fab

Yes they are Liscenced Practical Nurses. However, they do not at all function at the level of an RN, not by 1/100th. Most do not even place IV's or give meds. Most are employeed at nursing homes. The term only came into being in the last 10 years and the job title was created to fill long term care facility needs.

All of the support roles to the RN and Physican in the hospital (including LPN) are important, however it is important to know the difference.

 

[jendc08]

...

 

[benelswick]

You know what I've been working on being purely constructive on this site, but these last couple of posts are really telling of the weaknesses of hospital culture. I mean its like y'all are so worried about the pecking order and the titles and so forth...who gives a ****.

The culture takes perfectly creative and intelligent people and reduces them heirarchily minded title holders. Its precisely the thing which helps me to realize that for now I can only really express myself in my studies and that if and when I beome a physician I want to be in a specialty that is removed to a degree from the incessant pecking order and power struggles of the hospital.

To the O.P.....in a thousand little insidious ways certain people will go out of their way to reminds you that your a lowly CNA and a third class citizen. Best advice: learn quickly your best psychological adaptation and just keep your eyes on some basic clinical processes and be nice to your patients...spend more time with them than anyone else and move on with your studies.--Ben

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

You know what I've been working on being purely constructive on this site, but these last couple of posts are really telling of the weaknesses of hospital culture. I mean its like y'all are so worried about the pecking order and the titles and so forth...who gives a ****.

The culture takes perfectly creative and intelligent people and reduces them heirarchily minded title holders. Its precisely the thing which helps me to realize that for now I can only really express myself in my studies and that if and when I beome a physician I want to be in a specialty that is removed to a degree from the incessant pecking order and power struggles of the hospital.

To the O.P.....in a thousand little insidious ways certain people will go out of their way to reminds you that your a lowly CNA and a third class citizen. Best advice: learn quickly your best psychological adaptation and just keep your eyes on some basic clinical processes and be nice to your patients...spend more time with them than anyone else and move on with your studies.--Ben

Ben

You sound disgruntled. Yes there is a pecking order in the hospital and the sooner anyone planning to enter the allied health fields recognized that the better off they will be. It has always been that way and always will. The pecking order is established, and rightfully so, on education. Those who do not understand why this exists become "cavelier" RN's, LPN's, CNA's etc. and often do more harm to patients than good.

It isnt about power, its about knowledge. LPN's and CNA's were created to ASSIST RN's. RN's were created to ASSIST physicians. It is an important point to recognize. Those with higher education should be making decisions over those with less. It how every profession works.

 

[benelswick]

Ben

You sound disgruntled. Yes there is a pecking order in the hospital and the sooner anyone planning to enter the allied health fields recognized that the better off they will be. It has always been that way and always will. The pecking order is established, and rightfully so, on education. Those who do not understand why this exists become "cavelier" RN's, LPN's, CNA's etc. and often do more harm to patients than good.

It isnt about power, its about knowledge. LPN's and CNA's were created to ASSIST RN's. RN's were created to ASSIST physicians. It is an important point to recognize. Those with higher education should be making decisions over those with less. It how every profession works.

It's actually much less about knowledge than the control and use of knowledge and it's most certainly about power and money. I agree with you about safety and protecting the public but this is the most frequent technique used for ensuring less competition for resources by one profession against others.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

I understand what you are saying but here is what it sounds like:

"Im angry cause i didnt become an RN".

It isnt at all about control, money or power. Its all about levels of responsibility based upon knowledge and training. If your unhappy with what you make as an LPN/CNA then cowboy up and goto nursing school where you can become an RN. You can be disgruntled all you want but your arguments have no validity. I have been a tech, and emt, an EMT-P, and LPN and then an RN now planning to be a physician. I know the difference in knowledge base and its a chasm. Moreover, I clearly remember all those CNA's who used to say they "could easily do what an LPN did" and all the LPN's who say "I could easily do what an RN does". It is important to recognize that "you dont know what you DONT know", that is until you do the education you do not appreciate the difference.

 

[benelswick]

I understand what you are saying but here is what it sounds like:

"Im angry cause i didnt become an RN".

It isnt at all about control, money or power. Its all about levels of responsibility based upon knowledge and training. If your unhappy with what you make as an LPN/CNA then cowboy up and goto nursing school where you can become an RN. You can be disgruntled all you want but your arguments have no validity. I have been a tech, and emt, an EMT-P, and LPN and then an RN now planning to be a physician. I know the difference in knowledge base and its a chasm. Moreover, I clearly remember all those CNA's who used to say they "could easily do what an LPN did" and all the LPN's who say "I could easily do what an RN does". It is important to recognize that "you dont know what you DONT know", that is until you do the education you do not appreciate the difference.

Ok Mike fair enough. I understand what your saying. I just think that there's an over-professionalization trend in healthcare. Every position you try to apply for has some b.s. 1-2 year certification program at one of the fake @ss private colleges that will train you to be a medical assistant....for what? to take some vital signs and an ekg gimme a break! The fact of the matter is that one could easily do things very safely with on the job training under the supervision of skilled professionals.

I'm sorry if you disagree but nothing in a nursing curriculum is rocket science, its only by the nature of power and politics that the profession has evolved into its current niche. I'll give you an example: There was a famous lawsuit in california involving a medical assistant who re-used needles while drawing blood, a medical-legal hysteria resulted in laws that restricted the use of these invasive proceedures to licensed personel only. There was an equally famous lawsuit and a federal investigation into a cardiology group in california that was performing completely unnecessary heart surgeries on unwitting victims seemingly for a profit motive...the practice of cardiology remains the same as it did before the lawsuit. Aside from the fact that all of these rogue idiots displayed sociopathic behavior notice the process of power in juxtaposition.

I don't want to do anything that I'm not trained to do or not capable of doing safely. (And I'm certainly not upset I didn't go into nursing...that's actually pretty funny that you read that into my post) But I think its a shame that if your on break and I do a blood glucose check on your new patient with AMS and then I get called into my bosses office a week later because you went and bitched that as an EMT I'm not allowed to do invasive proceedures that what we have is a hater that leans their ego on a licencse and bullies another well-intentioned professional in the process. And this all within the law and seeming well-intentioned safe practice.

Education has its place but basic skills and team healthcare should be used by everyone. As it stands the modern hospital is a fractured and confusing place where in the defense of one's territory and in the covering of one's @ss alot has been lost in the name of higher professional standards. Frankly, I think the military has a better model, but then again they don't face armies of lawyers.

Perhaps I'm still emotionally digesting what I see as unatural and wasteful when it comes to making use of people's talent and capabilities, namely my own.--Ben.

P.S. Physician or bust for me.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Ahhh

As it turns out we think the same. Your running into idiots through no fault of your own!
Yes i agree with you point now. I do not think nursing is super hard and i come from Canada where it was a 4 year science degree. However, it isnt easy either (at least where i came from). I do see what your saying. Those people simply have no lives. Ignore them.

Im with you med school or bust! Good luck!

 

[CrazyPremed]

Honestly,

There always has been - and always will be - a war about who helps who and this educational curriculum is easier than that one, etc. Don't get caught up in it. CNA's are great. LPN are nurses. RN programs can be difficult. The end.

As far as becoming a CNA is concerned, I think that it can be a GREAT way to get pt contact (I just became one last week). At my undergrad, most of the prenursing students took the CNA route while premeds took the phlebotomist route (which is what I did). It all depends on the job requirements of your city, and the opportunities available. The wait lists are also out of control, primarily because some RN programs require the CNA before application. If you don't have to jump throught the hoops, I say, go for it.

CrazyPremed

 

[CrazyPremed]

Honestly,

There always has been - and always will be - a war about who helps who and this educational curriculum is easier than that one, etc. Don't get caught up in it. CNA's are great. LPN are nurses. RN programs can be difficult. The end.

As far as becoming a CNA is concerned, I think that it can be a GREAT way to get pt contact (I just became one last week). At my undergrad, most of the prenursing students took the CNA route while premeds took the phlebotomist route (which is what I did). It all depends on the job requirements of your city, and the opportunities available. The wait lists are also out of control, primarily because some RN programs require the CNA before application. If you don't have to jump through too many hoops, I say, go for it.

CrazyPremed

 

[tupac_don]

LPNs are most assuredly nurses (LPN= Licensed Practical Nurse)

Medical assistants are not nurses, and they should not be referred to as nurses, something that happens all the time in doctors' offices everywhere.

CNAs are not nurses, either. However, CNAs (and MAs) are essential members of the healthcare team.

Not really, they can't sign anyting, without another nurse being present, and they can't take VO from doctors. Its one step down from an RN degree.

 

[MD Dreams]

I'm a male who worked as a CNA in a nursing home and a hospital before med school. I havn't had time to read what others have written but being a CNA will definitely give you a lot of hands on experience. However, if you work in the setting that I did, the job is VERY physically demanding. It can also be very dirty many times (changing attends on old folks). However, you'll learn to respect the "little people" in the medical field a lot more and this will help make you a better RN, doc.

After CNA I did phlebotomy in the hospital and I loved every minute of it. You may want to consider this. The pay is pretty much the same, if not better, the job is a lot easier and more fun and if you work in the hospital you'll see a lot of stuff.

I also think that if you are interested in med school, go straight to it.

Good luck. Either way you'll gain a lot of good experience, but just be careful not to compromise your grades due to your job, especially for med school.

All the best.

 

[fab4fan]

Not really, they can't sign anyting, without another nurse being present, and they can't take VO from doctors. Its one step down from an RN degree.

Again, you're wrong. In some states, LPNs do take verbal/telephone orders, and they sign them off as well. This is particularly true in LTC facilities, where there may be only one RN for the whole facility.

There are some things that LPNs can't do, but that does not mean that they are not nurses. Their licenses say "Licensed Practical Nurse" or "Licensed Vocational Nurse."

For the record, I rarely take verbal orders from docs. If a doc is standing right next to me giving me a verbal order, I hand him/her the chart. Unless it's in the middle of an emergency, verbal orders should not be given. So many mistakes have been made because of miscommunication when verbal orders are given. (Besides, my job is not to be a stenographer for a doctor.)