CNN Article - Psychologists to Strike

[PikminOC]

So what? That’s not what I said. Are you misreading my statement or arguing in bad faith?

The health insurance must pay 80% of premiums towards healthcare. It is illegal for a claims department to serve as a revenue generating department. Those are two separate and established legal standards. You asked why they should have to pay. That’s your answer. They are legally obligated to pay.

So we know for sure they aren't paying 80 to healthcare? And if they aren't who will actually enforce it?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PikminOC]

I know that Kaiser is terrible, but I don't know how many clinics could manage consistent 10 day initial access AND f/u. The VA certainly can't

Edit: Oh, this is for HMOs. I admit I don't know much about HMOs.

Many private practices can't adhere to this timeline either

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Many private practices can't adhere to this timeline either

The law looks to be for insurers/health plans, not licensed providers or practices. And MDs are on a different timeline.

It is also offering an appointment, not scheduling one. And only if clinically indicated. It does not look to be a blanket policy.

 

[PsyDr]

So we know for sure they aren't paying 80 to healthcare? And if they aren't who will actually enforce it?

1) We don’t know. Statements that they cannot afford to pay for claims indicates some problems.
2) If they are not complying with the law, then the CA Insurance Department in conjunction with the Dept of Treasury, acting under the authority of the Dodd Frank act, will enforce. Liabilities include the dissolution of their ability to work as an insurance company, and criminal sanctions. IIRC, the civil liabilities for the claims dept acting as a revenue generating department was around ~$800k/per occurrence. Because state farm was negligent enough to publish a memo that told claims departments to "bring back a billion".

If you just want to argue, I'm game. You don't have to do it in bad faith.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Maybe they are but Kaiser is politically very powerful.

Seems to be.

Now I'm going down a rabbit hole online. Should be interesting few weeks ahead.

It looks like a number of state and local government officials are making their positions known:

"This strike is a long time coming," said state Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, among a growing number of state legislative leaders backing the workers. "There have been major issues at Kaiser in terms of providing people with timely access or any access to mental health and addiction treatment and the workers have been advocating for years to have more staffing and compliance with the law and that hasn’t happened."

"Oakland City Councilmember Dan Kalb, who joined Oakland staffers on the picket line on Tuesday, said mental health care has been undervalued for far too long."

Kaiser Mental Health Workers Strike for Third Day in Fight for Increased Staffing and Wages | KQED

Thousands of Kaiser psychologists, therapists and social workers picketed for a third day outside Kaiser facilities in Northern California, after negotiations with management broke down over the weekend.

www.kqed.org

 

[PikminOC]

1) We don’t know. Statements that they cannot afford to pay for claims indicates some problems.
2) If they are not complying with the law, then the CA Insurance Department in conjunction with the Dept of Treasury, acting under the authority of the Dodd Frank act, will enforce. Liabilities include the dissolution of their ability to work as an insurance company, and criminal sanctions. IIRC, the civil liabilities for the claims dept acting as a revenue generating department was around ~$800k/per occurrence. Because state farm was negligent enough to publish a memo that told claims departments to "bring back a billion".

If you just want to argue, I'm game. You don't have to do it in bad faith.

I meant how do we know that Kaiser isn't paying out 80 percent? Same thing happened in 2015. They won't get in trouble. They are fat cats

 

[WisNeuro]

I meant how do we know that Kaiser isn't paying out 80 percent? Same thing happened in 2015. They won't get in trouble. They are fat cats

We don't, presumably that would come up in tax filings and other regulatory documents. Remember that there is a huge incentive for employees to act as whistleblowers when tax fraud is involved as they get a sizable portion of recovered funds.

 

[PikminOC]

Looks like they're still on strike.

 

[PikminOC]

We don't, presumably that would come up in tax filings and other regulatory documents. Remember that there is a huge incentive for employees to act as whistleblowers when tax fraud is involved as they get a sizable portion of recovered funds.

Usually in these large systems no one knows enough to whistleblow. They are each in charge of a small piece of the pie.

 

[WisNeuro]

Usually in these large systems no one knows enough to whistleblow. They are each in charge of a small piece of the pie.

Multiple people always know how the finances work at some point, those are the whistleblowers.

 

[msc545]

Multiple people always know how the finances work at some point, those are the whistleblowers.

They are still on strike. The primary issue seems to be that the Kaiser business model and state law regarding the standard of care are in conflict in that Kaiser is unwilling to take a profit hit to be in compliance.

Labor Day rally marks Kaiser mental health clinicians’ fourth week on strike

OAKLAND, Calif.—As over 2,000 Kaiser psychologists, social workers, and therapists entered the fourth week of the longest mental health strike in U.S.

peoplesworld.org

 

[PikminOC]

They are still on strike. The primary issue seems to be that the Kaiser business model and state law regarding the standard of care are in conflict in that Kaiser is unwilling to take a profit hit to be in compliance.

Labor Day rally marks Kaiser mental health clinicians’ fourth week on strike

OAKLAND, Calif.—As over 2,000 Kaiser psychologists, social workers, and therapists entered the fourth week of the longest mental health strike in U.S.

peoplesworld.org

So striking helps meet that standard of care?

 

[msc545]

So striking helps meet that standard of care?

If it gets too expensive for Kaiser or causes them to have regulatory problems as a result of their continuing refusal to meet legal standards of care, then yes, it might. Striking is an absolute last resort in labor disputes, and when it gets to this point that is a clear indication that problems have become nearly intractable.

I would expect that at some not-very-distant point the California Department of Managed Care or some other government entity will step in if this continues.

 

[PikminOC]

If it gets too expensive for Kaiser or causes them to have regulatory problems as a result of their continuing refusal to meet legal standards of care, then yes, it might. Striking is an absolute last resort in labor disputes, and when it gets to this point that is a clear indication that problems have become nearly intractable.

I would expect that at some not-very-distant point the California Department of Managed Care or some other government entity will step in if this continues.

Several years ago the therapists went on strike too. Did anything change?

 

[Sanman]

Several years ago the therapists went on strike too. Did anything change?

Are you suggesting they just give up? At the end of the day, an employee has one source of leverage or choice...work there or do not work there.

 

[msc545]

Several years ago the therapists went on strike too. Did anything change?

Past performance is not indicative of future results - things change, and the two situations are not equivalent at all.

Also, mental health people are ethically and in some cases legally required to not participate in or condone the sort of deferral and denial of care that Kaiser does because it is life-threatening. It is just a matter of time before someone gets sued for malpractice or there is a board action on their license or both. Kaiser doesn't pay enough to run this risk.

 

[foreverbull]

Several years ago the therapists went on strike too. Did anything change?

I’m not sure about then, but engineers and RNs went on strike within the past year and Kaiser just called their bluff and waited them out. They eventually gave up because Kaiser refused to budge and they had no income. Kaiser also just found workers to hire temporarily and forced workers who didn’t strike to shoulder more of the burden.

I’m thinking they’ll use the same strategy here, but ethics and law are involved so I’m hoping regulatory boards step in to investigate Kaiser more closely and penalize them more than the last time they were caught not addressing client needs in a timely manner. They need to take a big hit financially to change their very set ways. They treat therapy like a for-profit business model of quantity over quality and make it as hard as possible to get in the door for therapy.

 

[msc545]

I’m not sure about then, but engineers and RNs went on strike within the past year and Kaiser just called their bluff and waited them out. They eventually gave up because Kaiser refused to budge and they had no income. Kaiser also just found workers to hire temporarily and forced workers who didn’t strike to shoulder more of the burden.

I’m thinking they’ll use the same strategy here, but ethics and law are involved so I’m hoping regulatory boards step in to investigate Kaiser more closely and penalize them more than the last time they were caught not addressing client needs in a timely manner. They need to take a big hit financially to change their very set ways. They treat therapy like a for-profit business model of quantity over quality and make it as hard as possible to get in the door for therapy.

I think that until there is regulatory action Kaiser will in fact try to wait them out. Kaiser has so much money that it is easy for them to do that. However, right now, Kaiser is going insane trying to hire therapists with ads all over the internet.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I think that until there is regulatory action Kaiser will in fact try to wait them out. Kaiser has so much money that it is easy for them to do that. However, right now, Kaiser is going insane trying to hire therapists with ads all over the internet.

It has taken all my willpower not to reply to Kaiser recruiters with the striking therapists' tiktoks

 

[PikminOC]

I’m not sure about then, but engineers and RNs went on strike within the past year and Kaiser just called their bluff and waited them out. They eventually gave up because Kaiser refused to budge and they had no income. Kaiser also just found workers to hire temporarily and forced workers who didn’t strike to shoulder more of the burden.

I’m thinking they’ll use the same strategy here, but ethics and law are involved so I’m hoping regulatory boards step in to investigate Kaiser more closely and penalize them more than the last time they were caught not addressing client needs in a timely manner. They need to take a big hit financially to change their very set ways. They treat therapy like a for-profit business model of quantity over quality and make it as hard as possible to get in the door for therapy.

They won't be hit with enough money to make a difference. I'm sure they give tons of lobbyist money and have political power.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Looks like Hawaii Kaiser clinicians have joined California in the open ended strike:

Striking Kaiser mental health clinicians joined by colleagues in Hawaii

OAKLAND, Calif.— Over 2,000 striking mental health clinicians hit the picket lines in front of Kaiser Permanente facilities in northern California and the Central Valley on the morning of Aug.

peoplesworld.org

Therapists in California and Hawaii Are Striking for Mental Health Care

The strike is the latest example of social justice unionism in the era of corporate health care.

www.thenation.com

I would expect that at some not-very-distant point the California Department of Managed Care or some other government entity will step in if this continues.

They launched an investigation according to what this says:

"On Aug. 24, the DMHC announced that it had launched a targeted enforcement action against Kaiser, based on patient complaints that the HMO is violating those requirements during the strike’s first weeks."

Striking Kaiser mental health clinicians joined by colleagues in Hawaii

OAKLAND, Calif.— Over 2,000 striking mental health clinicians hit the picket lines in front of Kaiser Permanente facilities in northern California and the Central Valley on the morning of Aug.

peoplesworld.org

Calif. agency probes Kaiser's mental health care amid strike

As Kaiser therapists approach the fourth week of an indefinite strike, an interesting twist has developed in the battle against California’s largest HMO.

www.sfgate.com

 

[PikminOC]

Looks like Hawaii Kaiser clinicians have joined California in the open ended strike:

Striking Kaiser mental health clinicians joined by colleagues in Hawaii

OAKLAND, Calif.— Over 2,000 striking mental health clinicians hit the picket lines in front of Kaiser Permanente facilities in northern California and the Central Valley on the morning of Aug.

peoplesworld.org

Therapists in California and Hawaii Are Striking for Mental Health Care

The strike is the latest example of social justice unionism in the era of corporate health care.

www.thenation.com

They launched an investigation according to what this says:

"On Aug. 24, the DMHC announced that it had launched a targeted enforcement action against Kaiser, based on patient complaints that the HMO is violating those requirements during the strike’s first weeks."

Striking Kaiser mental health clinicians joined by colleagues in Hawaii

OAKLAND, Calif.— Over 2,000 striking mental health clinicians hit the picket lines in front of Kaiser Permanente facilities in northern California and the Central Valley on the morning of Aug.

peoplesworld.org

Calif. agency probes Kaiser's mental health care amid strike

As Kaiser therapists approach the fourth week of an indefinite strike, an interesting twist has developed in the battle against California’s largest HMO.

www.sfgate.com

We will see what actually happens.

 

[msc545]

They won't be hit with enough money to make a difference. I'm sure they give tons of lobbyist money and have political power.

Sadly, you might be correct about that. I think in California the only real solution is regulatory action.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Interesting that this is happening too:

15,000 nurses in MN. The largest strike of private sector nurses in history.

Day 1 ends for 15,000 nurses on strike: "We're in a crisis where we need staff"

The Minnesota Nurses Association ended day of its three-day strike and members will return to the picket line Tuesday at 7 a.m.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[PikminOC]

Interesting that this is happening too:

15,000 nurses in MN. The largest strike of private sector nurses in history.

Day 1 ends for 15,000 nurses on strike: "We're in a crisis where we need staff"

The Minnesota Nurses Association ended day of its three-day strike and members will return to the picket line Tuesday at 7 a.m.

www.cbsnews.com

The striking nurses are asking for up to a 30% pay hike spread over three years. The hospitals are countering with 12% over three years. 😳

 

[AcronymAllergy]

The striking nurses are asking for up to a 30% pay hike spread over three years. The hospitals are countering with 12% over three years. 😳

Yep, just heard that on the news this morning. Those numbers are...a little far apart.

Is their pay low enough relative to other nurses to warrant a 30% increase as reasonable? I'm sure plenty of psychologists in hospital systems would love to have 30% pay increases and the hiring of more providers, too...

 

[WisNeuro]

Yep, just heard that on the news this morning. Those numbers are...a little far apart.

Is their pay low enough relative to other nurses to warrant a 30% increase as reasonable? I'm sure plenty of psychologists in hospital systems would love to have 30% pay increases and the hiring of more providers, too...

According to their own orgs, the pay is higher than most in the nation. 30% is definitely untenable, so it's hard to have too much sympathy there. So far, the nursing union is refusing mediation.

 

[PsyDr]

Yep, just heard that on the news this morning. Those numbers are...a little far apart.

Is their pay low enough relative to other nurses to warrant a 30% increase as reasonable? I'm sure plenty of psychologists in hospital systems would love to have 30% pay increases and the hiring of more providers, too...

Because JCAHO accreditation is dependent upon nursing numbers, there is no issue of "reasonable". If all nurses stick together, then Kaiser can either pay whatever the market determines OR close their hospitals. Not enough nurses on a floor? That floor has to be closed, or they have to hire expensive temp nurses. So long as nurses' fees and other overhead are less than what is paid for the facility fee, the hospital makes money. Even if they profited $0.00 for the facility fee, they still could make money on the physician fee, lab fees, procedure fees, etc.

 

[PikminOC]

Because JCAHO accreditation is dependent upon nursing numbers, there is no issue of "reasonable". If all nurses stick together, then Kaiser can either pay whatever the market determines OR close their hospitals. Not enough nurses on a floor? That floor has to be closed, or they have to hire expensive temp nurses. So long as nurses' fees and other overhead are less than what is paid for the facility fee, the hospital makes money. Even if they profited $0.00 for the facility fee, they still could make money on the physician fee, lab fees, procedure fees, etc.

The nurse strike is not at Kaiser.

 

[PsyDr]

The nurse strike is not at Kaiser.

Good catch. My point remains.

 

[ClinicalABA]

...30% is definitely untenable...

Just off the cuff, I don't think you can say it is "definitely" too much. Managment has be disproportionately paying themselve over labor in many industries for years, and would like us to think that anything above the range of a 0% to COL adjustment pay raise is "untenable." Maybe 30 is, maybe it isn't, but not seeing the numbers I think it's a better starting point to side with labor vs. management (but I do lean a bit to the left of the left, and if you're paying attention to the "what's your dissertation about" thread, you might surmise that I have a bit of a soft spot for the difficutl work done by nurses). When non-patient care costs in health care range from 15-25%, it's at least tenable to think that these nurses may be on to something with that request.

 

[WisNeuro]

Just off the cuff, I don't think you can say it is "definitely" too much. Managment has be disproportionately paying themselve over labor in many industries for years, and would like us to think that anything above the range of a 0% to COL adjustment pay raise is "untenable." Maybe 30 is, maybe it isn't, but not seeing the numbers I think it's a better starting point to side with labor vs. management (but I do lean a bit to the left of the left).

Oh, I am no fan of management. The E-suite is vastly overpaid at most of these places. So, I'd be fine if they took a paycut. But let's look at the president of the biggest system in MN where the strike is, James Hereford. He makes about 3.5 mil/year. You could drastically cut his pay to be onbe of the lowest for a HC system pres in the state to 1 mil/year, but that would be a drop in the bucket against what is being requested by the union. That 30% wage increase for a group that is already ranked highly in compensation (relative to other states) in a time period where most of these systems saw pretty big losses in the last few years seems a non-starter in negotiations. Particularly when other positions at many of these systems are relatively underpaid. Unfortunately, healthcare money is a zero sum game at the moment. So, it's coming from somewhere.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

For many RNs, I suspect a 30% wage increase would get them near or above 100k/year. So basically near or above the average early-career psychologist.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Oh, I am no fan of management. The E-suite is vastly overpaid at most of these places. So, I'd be fine if they took a paycut. But let's look at the president of the biggest system in MN where the strike is, James Hereford. He makes about 3.5 mil/year. You could drastically cut his pay to be onbe of the lowest for a HC system pres in the state to 1 mil/year, but that would be a drop in the bucket against what is being requested by the union. That 30% wage increase for a group that is already ranked highly in compensation (relative to other states) in a time period where most of these systems saw pretty big losses in the last few years seems a non-starter in negotiations. Particularly when other positions at many of these systems are relatively underpaid. Unfortunately, healthcare money is a zero sum game at the moment. So, it's coming from somewhere.

Obviously your post was not "just off the cuff", and this would seem to be a relatively lean system as far as CEO pay (but, heck, cut it to 1 million). I would disagree that it is a "non-starter in negotiations" though- a starter is exactly what it is.

 

[Sanman]

For many RNs, I suspect a 30% wage increase would get them near or above 100k/year. So basically near or above the average early-career psychologist.

At the moment, many systems are paying the same or more for RNs than they are for psychologists, including the VA. I looked into pay for some of the RNs I know and they are making similar money to me. One of the RN program managers is making more than our dept chief and managing a lot less people.

 

[WisNeuro]

Obviously your post was not "just off the cuff", and this would seem to be a relatively lean system as far as CEO pay (but, heck, cut it to 1 million). I would disagree that it is a "non-starter in negotiations" though- a starter is exactly what it is.

The hospital system offered 12% as a starter, and it was the union that refused to mediation stating that the sides were "too far apart" to have anything meaningful come out of that. Doesn't sound like they intended for it to be much of a starter. Good on the union for getting that money, but this is one of the highest paying professions when compared to the schooling/training required in the healthcare setting. There are a lot of other disciplines in the hospitals needing pay raises before the nurses, they just don't have unions nearly as powerful.

Bottom line, it's no secret that I think healthcare is broken in this country. I just don't buy the BS that the nurses union is shoveling about patient safety. It's about them getting paid very good money. Always has been. They're just good at playing the political games and nurses actually contribute to their unions here.

 

[msc545]

Perhaps Psychologists need a union.

 

[msc545]

Sadly, you might be correct about that. I think in California the only real solution is regulatory action.

"The next day, the state legislature passed Senate Bill 858, by state Senator Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, and sponsored by the statewide health care consumer advocacy coalition Health Access. If signed by Governor Gavin Newsom, SB 858 will ratchet up the fines health providers must pay for violating mental health parity laws from the present $2,500 to $25,000 per incident."

 

[WisNeuro]

Perhaps Psychologists need a union.

It'd have to be statewide to have an effect, as I don't think that most of these systems have the numbers to make a big difference. For example, in that large MN hospital system, one of the hospitals there had 3 psychologists in the entire hospital, and 4 at a sister hospital. Pales in comparison to the number of nurses, which is where their power is. Psychologists have a hard enough time even joining state and national orgs for their own advocacy. Generally speaking, we're a lazy and cheap bunch.

 

[msc545]

It'd have to be statewide to have an effect, as I don't think that most of these systems have the numbers to make a big difference. For example, in that large MN hospital system, one of the hospitals there had 3 psychologists in the entire hospital, and 4 at a sister hospital. Pales in comparison to the number of nurses, which is where their power is. Psychologists have a hard enough time even joining state and national orgs for their own advocacy. Generally speaking, we're a lazy and cheap bunch.

I think you are right.

 

[psycho1391]

Kaiser also just found workers to hire temporarily and forced workers who didn’t strike to shoulder more of the burden.

Yeah, but its easier to find travel nurses since there are staffing agencies specifically for them than it is to find a traveling mental health worker.

 

[msc545]

Also, travel nurses get paid $$$$$$$$

 

[PsyDr]

Yeah, but its easier to find travel nurses since there are staffing agencies specifically for them than it is to find a traveling mental health worker.

It doesn't matter. JCAHO accreditation, Trauma level, etc are not contingent on mental health workers.

 

[msc545]

It doesn't matter. JCAHO accreditation, Trauma level, etc are not contingent on mental health workers.

True. In theory, they could outsource their mental health services but it would probably be unacceptably costly for them to do that, and they could not control costs as they do now by underpaying providers and attenuating care to the point that many of their members simply get no care, apparently.

 

[PsychPhDone]

True. In theory, they could outsource their mental health services but it would probably be unacceptably costly for them to do that, and they could not control costs as they do now by underpaying providers and attenuating care to the point that many of their members simply get no care, apparently.

My understanding is that Kaiser does already have a setup for outsourcing but it, too, is inadequate.

 

[msc545]

My understanding is that Kaiser does already have a setup for outsourcing but it, too, is inadequate.

I have not heard of that but I am not surprised that it is inadequate. Kaiser has a practice of making money flow upward to executives and their CEO and underpaying everyone and everything else - like this:

2019 Kaiser Compensation:

• $35,479,539: Bernard Tyson, Chairman and CEO
• $6,720,335: Kathryn Lancaster, EVP and CFO
• $6,213,257: Gregory Adams, Chairman and CEO
• $5,837,783: Arthur Southam, EVP, Health Plan Operations
• $3,958,930: Richard Daniels, EVP, Chief Information Officer
• $3,676,934: Julie Miller-Phipps, Region President, Southern CA
• $3,542,706: Janet Liang, Regional President, Northern CA
• $2,989,567: Patrick Curneya, EVP, Chief Medical Officer
• $2,760,793: Charles Columbus, SVP
• $2,402,951: Mark Zealman, SVP, General Counsel and Secretary
  
  I am sure that they use outsourcing as little as possible, and when they do use it they nickel and dime it to save money for themselves. Managed healthcare is damaged healthcare.

 

[msc545]

"
OAKLAND – Mental health therapists and nurses at Kaiser Permanente in their fifth week of striking for improved working conditions have called on state regulators to prevent the health care provider from using temporary replacement workers which they claim could postpone patient care during the strike.

The National Union of Healthcare Workers filed a complaint with the state's Department of Managed Health Care on behalf of the striking employees on Friday, arguing that Kaiser planned to temporarily hire unqualified licensed vocational nurses during the strike.

Current state law requires health care providers to offer a follow-up mental health therapy session within 10 business days of an initial session unless a licensed therapist determines that a longer wait time between sessions would not harm the patient.

Kaiser's temporary workers, according to the complaint, would be tasked with determining whether patients require a follow-up therapy session within 10 days of their initial session. The NUHW argued doing so would violate state law.

"It's time for the state to do its job and enforce the law so Kaiser Permanente patients aren't wrongfully denied the mental health care they need," NUHW President Sal Rosselli said in a statement.

More than 2,000 therapists, psychologists, social workers and addiction counselors have picketed Kaiser locations in the Bay Area since Aug. 15, when the NUHW said labor talks deteriorated.

According to the union, workers accepted a pay structure offer from Kaiser management, but the health care provider declined to accept proposals requiring increased staffing and reduced appointment wait times.

Kaiser Permanente called the strike "unnecessary" in a statement and suggested the NUHW is pushing workers to picket and "make mischaracterized or unfounded allegations."

Kaiser also argued that the nurses and clinicians that are working temporarily during the strike have done so on short notice and solely in an effort to ensure that patient care is not interrupted.

"Contrary to NUHW's allegations, the nurses are not providing clinical assessments or making appointments, and they are not making any judgments with respect to the care that has already been provided," Kaiser said of the temporary workers. "Only our licensed behavioral health clinical experts review the patient's care, assess what is needed for the patient, and work to provide the care to the patient."

Union and Kaiser officials are expected to resume bargaining talks on Wednesday.

Until then, workers are expected to strike at medical centers in San Francisco, Oakland, Santa Clara, Santa Rosa, Vallejo and Walnut Creek from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. The strike will continue until the two sides reach a new bargaining agreement, according to the NUHW."

 

[PikminOC]

"
OAKLAND – Mental health therapists and nurses at Kaiser Permanente in their fifth week of striking for improved working conditions have called on state regulators to prevent the health care provider from using temporary replacement workers which they claim could postpone patient care during the strike.

The National Union of Healthcare Workers filed a complaint with the state's Department of Managed Health Care on behalf of the striking employees on Friday, arguing that Kaiser planned to temporarily hire unqualified licensed vocational nurses during the strike.

Current state law requires health care providers to offer a follow-up mental health therapy session within 10 business days of an initial session unless a licensed therapist determines that a longer wait time between sessions would not harm the patient.

Kaiser's temporary workers, according to the complaint, would be tasked with determining whether patients require a follow-up therapy session within 10 days of their initial session. The NUHW argued doing so would violate state law.

"It's time for the state to do its job and enforce the law so Kaiser Permanente patients aren't wrongfully denied the mental health care they need," NUHW President Sal Rosselli said in a statement.

More than 2,000 therapists, psychologists, social workers and addiction counselors have picketed Kaiser locations in the Bay Area since Aug. 15, when the NUHW said labor talks deteriorated.

According to the union, workers accepted a pay structure offer from Kaiser management, but the health care provider declined to accept proposals requiring increased staffing and reduced appointment wait times.

Kaiser Permanente called the strike "unnecessary" in a statement and suggested the NUHW is pushing workers to picket and "make mischaracterized or unfounded allegations."

Kaiser also argued that the nurses and clinicians that are working temporarily during the strike have done so on short notice and solely in an effort to ensure that patient care is not interrupted.

"Contrary to NUHW's allegations, the nurses are not providing clinical assessments or making appointments, and they are not making any judgments with respect to the care that has already been provided," Kaiser said of the temporary workers. "Only our licensed behavioral health clinical experts review the patient's care, assess what is needed for the patient, and work to provide the care to the patient."

Union and Kaiser officials are expected to resume bargaining talks on Wednesday.

Until then, workers are expected to strike at medical centers in San Francisco, Oakland, Santa Clara, Santa Rosa, Vallejo and Walnut Creek from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. The strike will continue until the two sides reach a new bargaining agreement, according to the NUHW."

Are the therapists getting paid during the strike? Five weeks is a long time without pay.

 

[msc545]

Are the therapists getting paid during the strike? Five weeks is a long time without pay.

Kaiser is not paying them as far as I know - or the Union may have a strike fund.

 

[foreverbull]

Kaiser, Don’t Deny - National Union of Healthcare Workers

Patients need access to timely and consistent mental health services

nuhw.org

I’m assuming no since there’s a fund to donate to on this page for striking therapists.