Co-PI, and not the full enchilada...

[SaltySqueegee]

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Well,

It seems that reality is much different than dreams/aspirations. The concept of being a full-time clinician, and running my own lab seems somewhat ludicrous if I also want to spend time with my family, and personally raise my own children (in some capacity).

I've completed my first two years of medicine, have all of my lab rotations out of the way for my PhD, and am 6 months into my PhD lab work.

The question is, is it more reasonable to be a Co-PI on a grant, work with/under another PI in their lab, than to try to control my the direction of my own research? Some how, I know this question/answer is pretty obvious, but I'm wondering if other people have the aspiration to only be a Co-PI and physician, and not the full blown PI and Clinician.

Your thoughts are welcome. Oh, and a few other things, I am not good at politics, which is what it seems to take to be funded these days, and my grant writing is pretty average, which is also not good enough in today's competitive atmosphere (I'm finding).

I do have the dreams, bull-headed perseverence and theoretical conceptual framework to contribute to a project though...

I don't know, I'm just trying to figure this all out still. I like both research and clinical work.

Hmmm...

Thoughts?

 

[dave613]

Well,

It seems that reality is much different than dreams/aspirations. The concept of being a full-time clinician, and running my own lab seems somewhat ludicrous if I also want to spend time with my family, and personally raise my own children (in some capacity).

I've completed my first two years of medicine, have all of my lab rotations out of the way for my PhD, and am 6 months into my PhD lab work.

The question is, is it more reasonable to be a Co-PI on a grant, work with/under another PI in their lab, than to try to control my the direction of my own research? Some how, I know this question/answer is pretty obvious, but I'm wondering if other people have the aspiration to only be a Co-PI and physician, and not the full blown PI and Clinician.

Your thoughts are welcome. Oh, and a few other things, I am not good at politics, which is what it seems to take to be funded these days, and my grant writing is pretty average, which is also not good enough in today's competitive atmosphere (I'm finding).

I do have the dreams, bull-headed perseverence and theoretical conceptual framework to contribute to a project though...

I don't know, I'm just trying to figure this all out still. I like both research and clinical work.

Hmmm...

Thoughts?

That is very interesting SaltySqueegee. Although I am not as far into the process as you are, I have the same aspirations about wanting to raise a family, and yeah it seems that like that+being full PI+ clinician, is almost an impossibility.

My thoughts on what is more practical: it's very hard to be a succesfull physician and scientist, so with family intentions, you should choose either to be a full PI or a physician. I think initially, one should be a co-PI, while working in the clinic, just to determine which he or she will make a stronger impact on. Then, once that is determined you pick one field and do your best👍


any other thoughts...?

 

[MasonPrehealth]

It seems that reality is much different than dreams/aspirations. The concept of being a full-time clinician, and running my own lab seems somewhat ludicrous if I also want to spend time with my family, and personally raise my own children (in some capacity).

I've completed my first two years of medicine, have all of my lab rotations out of the way for my PhD, and am 6 months into my PhD lab work.

The question is, is it more reasonable to be a Co-PI on a grant, work with/under another PI in their lab, than to try to control my the direction of my own research? Some how, I know this question/answer is pretty obvious, but I'm wondering if other people have the aspiration to only be a Co-PI and physician, and not the full blown PI and Clinician.

Heck, being a full-time clinician and running your own lab is extremely difficult even with good institutional and family support.

NIH has recently developed new regulations over multiple PI's on grants which will certainly be applicable for you when you go independent. To directly answer your question, it is possible to do what you are saying: be a co-PI and work under another PI's direction. That is what the postdoc research track (research professor track or clinical professor track, not academic tenure-track) is all about. However, your position is going to be much more dependent on your ability to fund yourself, and you have practically zilch support on job security. You will also be "forever" branded as being incapable of independent faculty-like research. Maybe that will change in 5 years, but I guess I'm more skeptical.

Your thoughts are welcome. Oh, and a few other things, I am not good at politics, which is what it seems to take to be funded these days, and my grant writing is pretty average, which is also not good enough in today's competitive atmosphere (I'm finding).

You are also a third-year med student. I don't expect your grant-writing skills to be as good as a department chair or a Lasker winner, just as I wouldn't expect your clinical skills to be perfect. To that extent, keep working at it and improve. Go to as many programs that are geared towards junior faculty to hear what the process for grant-funding is.

You also need to be aware: being a PI at an academic medical center is not the only option for MD/PhD's. You have heard of NIH, which has the world's largest clinical center, of course? I would suggest at some point taking an opportunity to perhaps do a little research at NIH if your MSTP program can arrange for it.

On the family question, it's difficult enough for MD's or straight-up PhD's to be able to balance work and family responsibilities. The system is recognizing this and slowly making changes (morning rounds starting at 8am instead of 7am so some residents can bring their kids to school or daycare). But recognize that everyone has to make difficult decisions and sacrifices. It is rather unrealistic to think you can "have it all", but I don't think having it all is necessarily the prescription for personal fulfillment and happiness. If having a family and a successful career is important to you, surround yourself with people in compassionate and supportive working environments who you think have made that successful transition who can encourage you appropriately. Be mindful of the company you keep because these role models are what you will hopefully aspire to be and will become to the next generation confronting the same questions you have. The network of colleagues, family, and friends is what will help you deal with the challenges of work-family balance, and the stronger that network is so (I believe) will be your confidence to "have it [most]".

 

[Circumflex]

Your perspective and probably your career goals will change as you complete your PhD training and clinical clerkships - mine did. As was stated, your grant-writing skills should not be good at this point. Keep an open mind and follow your interests. You are in a unique position to follow a variety of career paths.

My best advice would be to find some clinician-scientists and talk with them. Ask them how they balance their lives. It is definitely difficult to balance everything, but there are some who are very successful at it. You may decide not to be like these people, but gaining more perspective is always advantageous. Good luck.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

Thank you for the discussion folks. It's good to see others are thinking, or have thought about this topic. Maybe I'm just in the middle of a steep learning curve and am trying to imagine myself in the future, which may not be realistic or in the proper context.

i.e. How can I see myself running a lab, when I'm just starting out as a fledgling researcher myself? But, still, I see how my PI struggles to balance clinic/research/family, and it makes me cringe. I think that, for my PI who chose clinic and research, family has suffered as the result. Hence, at my point in the game, if I set my priorities to be a Co-PI/investigator 3days/wk, and clinician 2-3days/wk, my family won't necessarily be relegated as my PI's has.

Hmmm... maybe only time will tell. What a juggling act.

My program has us doing full-time research right now, with clerkships with an internist 4hours every 2wks. Very confusing switching from research to medicine and then back again. Time will tell... it's a bit of a game.

Thanks again for the thoughts and replys.

 

[RxnMan]

...The concept of being a full-time clinician, and running my own lab seems somewhat ludicrous if I also want to spend time with my family, and personally raise my own children (in some capacity)...The question is, is it more reasonable to be a Co-PI on a grant, work with/under another PI in their lab, than to try to control my the direction of my own research? Some how, I know this question/answer is pretty obvious, but I'm wondering if other people have the aspiration to only be a Co-PI and physician, and not the full blown PI and Clinician...

You've hit on the reason why I won't go for a MD/PhD at this point in my life. I love doing research, and the little clinical work I have done is wonderful, but, there are people in my life that are more important to me.

Right now I have enough skills to fund and push through small projects. I think at some point in the future, I could get good enough to apply for R01s and the like, but where would that get me professionally? I'd have to be a PI full-time. That means no clinical work, in which case, why am I in medical school? I also know I didn't want to do the day-to-day lab stuff, run tests, and writing grants and papers. I am content with being a co-PI because that way I can be a clinician, answer my own (small) research questions, and have some life outside it all.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

You've hit on the reason why I won't go for a MD/PhD at this point in my life. I love doing research, and the little clinical work I have done is wonderful, but, there are people in my life that are more important to me.

Right now I have enough skills to fund and push through small projects. I think at some point in the future, I could get good enough to apply for R01s and the like, but where would that get me professionally? I'd have to be a PI full-time. That means no clinical work, in which case, why am I in medical school? I also know I didn't want to do the day-to-day lab stuff, run tests, and writing grants and papers. I am content with being a co-PI because that way I can be a clinician, answer my own (small) research questions, and have some life outside it all.

If you don't mind me asking, what stage are you currently in life?

Undergraduate Medical?
Residency?
Fellow?

...

Just curious.

I appreciate your response.

 

[Vader]

Well,

It seems that reality is much different than dreams/aspirations. The concept of being a full-time clinician, and running my own lab seems somewhat ludicrous if I also want to spend time with my family, and personally raise my own children (in some capacity).

I've completed my first two years of medicine, have all of my lab rotations out of the way for my PhD, and am 6 months into my PhD lab work.

The question is, is it more reasonable to be a Co-PI on a grant, work with/under another PI in their lab, than to try to control my the direction of my own research? Some how, I know this question/answer is pretty obvious, but I'm wondering if other people have the aspiration to only be a Co-PI and physician, and not the full blown PI and Clinician.

Your thoughts are welcome. Oh, and a few other things, I am not good at politics, which is what it seems to take to be funded these days, and my grant writing is pretty average, which is also not good enough in today's competitive atmosphere (I'm finding).

I do have the dreams, bull-headed perseverence and theoretical conceptual framework to contribute to a project though...

I don't know, I'm just trying to figure this all out still. I like both research and clinical work.

Hmmm...

Thoughts?

The good news is that you still have plenty of time to figure things out. Although it seems daunting today, realize that you are at only an early stage of your training--Rome wasn't built in a day. As others have mentioned, your interests will likely develop over time, as will your grant writing skills and ability to navigate the murky waters of academic politics.

I would advise you to find some good mentors who are role models and supportive of you and your goals.

I do believe that collaborative science is in vogue these days, so even if you establish yourself as an independent investigator, you will likely find yourself collaborating to some degree with others.

In addition, there are many different types of labs--not all are large factories set in academia. An interesting example of a different way of doing science is the model of HHMI's Janelia Farm, which focuses on laboratories of ~5 people with the PI doing hands-on work and taking on exciting, groundbreaking, and often high-risk projects.

Keep ya head up! 🙂

 

[RxnMan]

If you don't mind me asking, what stage are you currently in life?

Undergraduate Medical?
Residency?
Fellow?

...

Just curious.

I appreciate your response.

Sent you a PM, so check your box.