cold, allergy, flu, etc product selection

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gaba101

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Back in my first few days as a pharmacy intern, I'd roam the OTC aisles with my notebook and jot down the active ingredients in products like Dimetapp or Tylenol cold and sinus, just to name a few, so that I can quickly tell pts what to take when they tell me what symptoms they have. I have long stopped doing that because these cold products are always changing and so rapidly reformulated. What I do nowadays as an intern is after the pt tells me what his/her symptoms are, I walk them over to the OTC aisle and help choose one by quickly scanning the back for the actice ingredients. I knwo that when I become a pharmacist and am super busy in the pharmacy, I cannot always rely on this method and will need to be able to recommend without going out there. even though i KNOW what key ingredients treat what, i can't expect to tell a pt to look for that active ingredient on every single cold product.

my question is this--are there any cold/allergy/flu, etc etc etc products that are RELIABLE (i.e. rarely are reformulated) that I should know and can depend on as a pharmacist recommendation? or is there a website that is up to date on these rapidly reformulated cold products?
 
I'm not wild about the combination products. Here is what I generally stick to:

Allergies, Runny nose - Benadryl (diphenhydramine) if drowsiness isn't an issue
Non-drowsy allergy - Claritin (loratidine)
Congestion (stopped up) - PSE or phenylephrine (Sudafed)
Cough - dextromethorphan (Del-Sym)
Pain (sinus or sore throat) - just take a Tylenol or ibuprofen (with a Sudafed added for sinus pain). Most patients likely have these analgesics at home already.

I find if I recommend a single-ingredient prep the patient will go look for it and sometimes come back with a combo product for me to look at. I'll look at it and tell them whether or not it fits their symptoms.
 
Don't worry! Now there's another OTC medicine to choose from- Zyrtec/Zyrtec D. Along with it going OTC, you get to answer all of those lovely questions: What's the difference between Claritin and Zyrtec? Is Zyrtec good? I thought that was prescription, when did it become available over the counter? Why is it so expensive? If my copay was just $10, why does a box of #20 now cost me $15?...

Oh the joy of retail pharmacy!
 
To be fair, the majority of Cough & Cold is crap.

There are a few gems:

Benadryl / Non drowsy Claritin
Advil Liqui-Gels -> If sinus congestion/pressure : Advil Cold & Sinus
Tylenol

Cough products are _USELESS_ and are repeatedly proven to suck, e.g dextromethorphan or guaifensin for "productive coughs". Stick to the cheap products that work: Lozenge / Honey / Water to help with dry cough & for productive just a lot of water really, that's what I keep hearing from the majority of people.

The only benefit apparently from robitussin and the like is just that it's a viscous liquid that coats the throat, preventing irritation.
 
Dextromethorphan (and Codeine) should not be used for a productive cough as you don't want to stop a productive cough.

Codeine (which available OTC from the pharmacist in my state) and DXM are considered effective for cough suppression in adults, but similar results have not been observed in children. The sedative effect from these preps may also help patients with cough rest and sleep better.

Psuedoephedrine is more effective than phenylephrine. PE has been shown to have increased efficacy at doses higher than listed on the package label but the higher doses have not been evaluated for safety.
 
I'm not wild about the combination products. Here is what I generally stick to:

Allergies, Runny nose - Benadryl (diphenhydramine) if drowsiness isn't an issue
Non-drowsy allergy - Claritin (loratidine)
Congestion (stopped up) - PSE or phenylephrine (Sudafed)
Cough - dextromethorphan (Del-Sym)
Pain (sinus or sore throat) - just take a Tylenol or ibuprofen (with a Sudafed added for sinus pain). Most patients likely have these analgesics at home already.

I find if I recommend a single-ingredient prep the patient will go look for it and sometimes come back with a combo product for me to look at. I'll look at it and tell them whether or not it fits their symptoms.


This sums up my opinions pretty much, except I don't tell people to use PE even if that means I have jump through all the damn hoops to sell them PSE
 
All4MyDaughter, does your store actually carry the appropriately sized bottles of Codeine for OTC dispensation? Codeine is available OTC in Indiana but most stores, including Walgreens, will not carry it due to liability issues.
 
This sums up my opinions pretty much, except I don't tell people to use PE even if that means I have jump through all the damn hoops to sell them PSE


Seriously. PE sucks. The only time I'd recommend it is if someone has no ID on them or is underage. For short term relief Afrin is good too. Forgot that one.
 
All4MyDaughter, does your store actually carry the appropriately sized bottles of Codeine for OTC dispensation? Codeine is available OTC in Indiana but most stores, including Walgreens, will not carry it due to liability issues.


I've never seen it dispensed. Interestingly, Kentucky law does not require a special sized bottle. According to my law professor that's just a misconception. He said you can just pour the appropriate amount in a bottle, label and dispense. But many of the pharmacists here THINK you need a special bottle and almost none of the chains will do it. Some of the independents will sell OTC codeine but I hear it can be a can of worms - unsavory clientèle and all. Now I want to go try and get some tomorrow and see what happens...need to perfect my "fake cough." :laugh:
 
I've never seen it dispensed. Interestingly, Kentucky law does not require a special sized bottle. According to my law professor that's just a misconception. He said you can just pour the appropriate amount in a bottle, label and dispense. But many of the pharmacists here THINK you need a special bottle and almost none of the chains will do it. Some of the independents will sell OTC codeine but I hear it can be a can of worms - unsavory clientèle and all. Now I want to go try and get some tomorrow and see what happens...need to perfect my "fake cough." :laugh:

Well you are right and you are wrong. In order to sell anything OTC, it must have appropriate, as determined by the FDA, labeling. While you could theoretically use RX packaging to dispense C-V drugs that are non federal legend and pour them into a 4 oz bottle, you would be violating many FDA regulations regarding the sale and labeling of OTC products.
 
Dextromethorphan (and Codeine) should not be used for a productive cough as you don't want to stop a productive cough.

Codeine (which available OTC from the pharmacist in my state) and DXM are considered effective for cough suppression in adults, but similar results have not been observed in children. The sedative effect from these preps may also help patients with cough rest and sleep better.

Psuedoephedrine is more effective than phenylephrine. PE has been shown to have increased efficacy at doses higher than listed on the package label but the higher doses have not been evaluated for safety.

From personal experience, and from many others who've had a true viral, dry cough syndrome the DM is very ineffective. Pediatricians want it pulled and to have _no_ cough products available for children, and I have no idea what study you're citing but if they compared it to a teaspoonful of something viscous, e.g. honey I'd be very surprised if it fared better.

Here, the advil cold and sinus contains pseudoephedrine, not phenylephrine if that's what you were talking about. Not sure why you said that.
 
Here, the advil cold and sinus contains pseudoephedrine, not phenylephrine if that's what you were talking about. Not sure why you said that.


The DXM study is on PubMed. It's quoted in my OTC products book, which I don't have handy at this location.

I added the info about PE vs. PSE because I forgot to put it in my original post. I suppose it would have confused you less if I'd just edited the original. Sorry about that. 😉
 
Well you are right and you are wrong. In order to sell anything OTC, it must have appropriate, as determined by the FDA, labeling. While you could theoretically use RX packaging to dispense C-V drugs that are non federal legend and pour them into a 4 oz bottle, you would be violating many FDA regulations regarding the sale and labeling of OTC products.

My law prof says it just has to be "properly labeled for self-use" to avoid being considered misbranded. He's also with CVS, a pharmacy manager. I used to work under him at Walgreens. I'll ask him to clarify or see if I totally misunderstood.
 
My law prof says it just has to be "properly labeled for self-use" to avoid being considered misbranded. He's also with CVS, a pharmacy manager. I used to work under him at Walgreens. I'll ask him to clarify or see if I totally misunderstood.

That's correct. Properly labeled means the labeling the manufacturer would place on a 4oz unit of use bottle. Look at any OTC medication and the information would all have to be there. The old days, when I started, the put a label in the typewriter and type the name of the drug, the lot #, exp date & qty are over....
 
All4MyDaughter, so which way did you see your avatar spin? At first, I only saw it spinning counter-clockwise. Eventually, I could see it spinning clockwise too.
Supposedly on Facebook, if you see it spinning counter-clockwise, you're left-brained. If you see it spin clockwise, you're right-brained.

I thought the dancer was really cool, and actually, I still do 😀.

What happens if you can see it spin both ways? I've taken a left versus right brained test before, and I'm suppose to be 60% left and 40% right.
 
All4MyDaughter, so which way did you see your avatar spin? At first, I only saw it spinning counter-clockwise. Eventually, I could see it spinning clockwise too.
Supposedly on Facebook, if you see it spinning counter-clockwise, you're left-brained. If you see it spin clockwise, you're right-brained.

I thought the dancer was really cool, and actually, I still do 😀.

What happens if you can see it spin both ways? I've taken a left versus right brained test before, and I'm suppose to be 60% left and 40% right.

I can see it both ways. I am 51% left and 49% right brained. 🙂
 
Old Timers Guide to Recommending OTC Products for Coughs/Colds


General Guidelines:
A cold is generally non-life threatening (except to the sufferer). My general admonition is except for analgesics/anti-pyretics is to inform the requester that should they decide to treat the cold, it would last for seven days and if they did not, it would last a week. You need to ask plenty of questions such as any medical conditions. Diabetics should be instructed to watch their blood sugars more carefully as infections tend to increase glucose levels. Patients with kidney disease should not take NSAIDS. Patients with BPH should be careful with anti-muscarinic agents.
Children under two should be treated with a vaporizer (cool mist), nasal aspirator,acetaminophen and elevate the head of the crib/bed.
I try to avoid combination products. Most of the time the symptoms do not always last the same amount of time. If you have a patient with fever, headache and nasal congestion and you recommend Advil Cold and Sinus, you are likely going to give them more NSAID then they need as the nasal congestion is likely to last longer than the fever or headache. This is especially true of Analgesic/DXM combinations as cough seems to outlast other symptoms by a wide majority.

Analgesics/Antipyretics:
This is a matter of personal preference. I prefer acetaminophen as it is less toxic than NSAIDS. Remind them of the total daily limit of 4 GM/day. Also remind to avoid EtOH. Avoid aspirin in patient's under 18. Watch NSAIDS in patients on diuretics, H2 blockers, PPI's, Warfarin and Low-dose Aspirin.

Antihistamines:
When recommending sedating antihistamines with pronounced antimuscarinic activity such as diphenhydramine and chlorpheniramine warn of sedation. In some sates you can get a DUI for antihistamine use. Also warn about dry mouth, (chew sugarless gum) and dry eyes (especially for contact lens wearers), constipation and urinary retention (especially in the elderly). Also be aware that antihistamines are problematic in patients who have any type heart rhythm irregularity. I try to recommend Claritin with the proviso it is not as effective for treating cold symptoms as the older antihistamines.

Nasal Decongestants:
I think PSE is way more effective than PE. Be careful in patients that have hypertension and heart rhythm irregularity. Also warn of insomnia. PSE can effect urinary flow in men over 50. Also be careful with products that once had PSE with a dose of two tablets and now have PE with a dose of one tablet.
Cough Suppressants/Expectorants:
This is the area of greatest controversy. There are many people who believe there is no proof of efficacy for these compounds. I think the information here is sketchy. I try to rely on personal (therefore anecdotal and suspect) experience. I think the only way DXM and guaifenisin work is in high doses so I am stuck recommending Delsym and Mucinex. I do have anecdotal proof of efficacy, but not much more. There are some recent studies that show honey is just as effective as DXM, but I'm not convinced

Generally your job is to use your clinical skills to ask the right questions so you can get the correct medications to your patients. Remembering a cold is not life threatening and you don't want to provide treatment that will do more harm than the original condition. Sometimes less is more. It's also important to know what to look for so you can refer the patient to their physician. Lethargy, blood in the sputum and fever lasting more than a few days are some of the triggers to let you know it's time to refer. It's a little easier in children. If the snot is clear and they are eating, drinking and playing you are pretty safe, if not, they definitely get the contact your physician warning.




 
What about NSAIDs for cough? I've read this a few places and it kinda of makes sense how it would work. I've stopped recommending DXM because I think it's garbage but I still feel like Guaif works and usually recommend this for children (along with an antihistamine and lots of fluids) for cough based off of what I've read through pharmacistsletter, but that's all I have to base it on.

Also, what is the diff between cold and warm mist? I get this a lot where I work.

And Afrin is still fine in HBP because it's effects are localized, right?
 
What about NSAIDs for cough? I've read this a few places and it kinda of makes sense how it would work. I've stopped recommending DXM because I think it's garbage but I still feel like Guaif works and usually recommend this for children (along with an antihistamine and lots of fluids) for cough based off of what I've read through pharmacistsletter, but that's all I have to base it on.

Also, what is the diff between cold and warm mist? I get this a lot where I work.

And Afrin is still fine in HBP because it's effects are localized, right?

I've seen Naproxen for acute cough due to the common cold. The Pharmacist's Letter uses Ann Intern Med. 1992 Jul 1;117(1):37-41 as it's source. Since you mentioned the Pharmacist's Letter, check out their chart "Pharmacologic Treatment of Cough in Adults: Evidence-Based Guidelines"...it's pretty good.

As far as a difference between cold/warm humidifier/vaporizer...no difference. Both moisten the air and can help loosen mucus. Biggest issue is if they have babies/children around that can burn themselves on the hot steam. And cleanliness issues. Unless they have a lower resp condition where a humidifier may work better...either will work for a cold.

Yep, Afrin's actions are localized...so shouldn't affect BP. Watch out for rebound congestion after 3 - 5 days though.
 
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