Columbia P&S vs. Cornell

[mgforce]

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I'm currently debating between Columbia P&S and Weill Cornell. I went to both revisits but am kind of at a stand still in my decision. On the one hand, I like the curriculum at Cornell and the fact that Cornell students are in class for less time, but I am also taking into consideration that Columbia is ranked higher and that the students seemed pretty cool and motivated (at least at first glance).

Any thoughts/suggestions? Anyone going through the same thing? Thanks.

 

[The Remix]

I'm currently debating between Columbia P&S and Weill Cornell. I went to both revisits but am kind of at a stand still in my decision. On the one hand, I like the curriculum at Cornell and the fact that Cornell students are in class for less time, but I am also taking into consideration that Columbia is ranked higher and that the students seemed pretty cool and motivated (at least at first glance).

Any thoughts/suggestions? Anyone going through the same thing? Thanks.

Please don't consider the rankings. Rankings don't mean much in the first place, especially b/w Weill and Columbia. They're pretty close and they're affiliated with the same hospital system. I can't imagine that Cornell students aren't just as cool and motivated as Columbia students. I kinda like a little more structure in my life so I opted for Columbia. From my interview experiences, students learning with PBL weren't happy as opposed to what curriculum directors were saying. I'm sure someone disagrees with me on that one though. Good luck anyway and CONGRATULATIONS on having such great options!

 

[Avenue Q]

if you are at a complete deadlock, go with location - and cornell has that one way won.

 

[SarahGM]

I'm currently debating between Columbia P&S and Weill Cornell. I went to both revisits but am kind of at a stand still in my decision. On the one hand, I like the curriculum at Cornell and the fact that Cornell students are in class for less time, but I am also taking into consideration that Columbia is ranked higher and that the students seemed pretty cool and motivated (at least at first glance).

Any thoughts/suggestions? Anyone going through the same thing? Thanks.

I'm not convinced that Cornell is in class for less time. Let me spell ours out for you...

Mornings, either 9-12 or 10-12, usually. Fridays are 9-1.
Afternoons free, except for Tues and Thurs from August-March.... anatomy goes from 1 till 4 or 5. Now that we are done with anatomy, afternoons on Tues and Thurs are 2-5.

Don't believe the hype!

Also, don't pick your school based on how many hours of class there are.... especially if you don't need to ATTEND class. (For instance, many places have note-taking services. Others learn more from reading and find attending class inefficient.) Find out your learning style and go from there!

 

[jankanator]

I also attended both second looks and I came out in favor of Columbia. For me, I like the fact that Columbia has the undergrad within reach, as well as all the other grad programs. Public health was a toss up because Cornell claimed earlier that there was an "arrangement" with Columbia, but as they told us at the second look, that's been canned. I'm really interested in an MD/MPH so the Columbia situation is much more conducive to that. I also got the feeling that Columbia was much more fun--both were equally friendly I would say. I realize these weekends are a bit of show, but my impression was that Columbia students are much more involved (and there were more really attractive people, not that that is any kind of make-or-break criterion). I felt like Columbia was much more of a community and had a little of an undergrad "essence" as far as class cohesiveness. Cornell left me thinking more people had established lives outside of medical school and spent more time doing that. This is great for some, but I'm only 22 and not married or anything. Although Cornell is in a nicer area, I thought Columbia itself was nicer. The dorm was nicer, the common areas, the interview areas, too. The residence hall at Cornell where everything happened just seemed really rundown and depressing to me. Columbia's Bard Hall is definitely old, but feels more distinguished with its age. The whole hospital situation doesn't really factor in my decision at all. I don't buy the bull**** that you get subpar clinical experiences at Cornell because of it's location. PBL vs traditional also didn't really pull me in either direction. Those are just my quick thoughts, but I may be able to respond to more specific issues if you ask.

 

[doc05]

Columbia is the better choice because they've got a traditional curriculum. PBL curricula absolutely suck. Lots of wasted time, inefficient, etc. Basically a "selling point" for schools, but not the best way to learn. In traditional, you've got lectures, but you can always skip out of class and spend your time in the library if that's more efficient for you. Don't let the neighborhoods sway your decision: while Cornell is in a nicer area, it's not all that "happening", and you'll be sure to leave the neighborhood for a night on the town anyway. Columbia is a short subway ride from the upper west side, a nice area with plenty of restaurants, etc.

best of luck.

 

[greets fr. nyc]

currently about to start my 4th year at Cornell,
here's a post in an allopathic forum thread that i replied to in june concerning why i chose cornell. i'm not sure this is what you're quite looking for but perhaps this post imparts a fuller picture on what cornell is about, and on what similar things you might want to look for in any school regardless of where you end up going.

also, as a caveat, remember cornell is 1/3 PBL (which really I liked and got to know my class very well that way; tho it's not for everyone); 1/3 small group (i.e. structured path labs / case studies / micro labs / problem sets) ; and 1/3 lecture.
if PBL is a sticking point (which i strongly disagree that it should be) it's not only PBL, not only lecture but a pretty balanced combo.

hope it helps.

best,

...from:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=131090
<Some Advice: Cornell Weill or Columbia P&S

Hey, I am deciding between both schools and I was wondering if current students or anyone would care to share their thoughts or adivce about each school or both.
Thanks, MedMan3>


<06-27-2004, 07:23 AM
greets fr. nyc


congrats MedMan3,
both schools are excellent choices.

i'm currently a 3rd year at cornell, and have to say that i am still enjoying my time here immensely. before med school i was a teacher in nyc for a few years so i've been interested in issues of education, and cornell does a pretty good job at most things, with the caveat that one has to be really motivated and a self-directed learner, to do well here.
and all in all, reflecting on my time at med school, it's been a pretty humane experience.

though everyone is different, here are some reasons i chose to come to cornell:

1) in terms of clinical settings
The New York Hospital - Top notch. The "New York" in "New York-Presbyterian Hospital." state of the art facilities in almost every respect.
Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center- consistently 1 or 2 in the country
Hospital for Special Surgery - tops in the country for orthopedics
The Rockefeller University - 20 nobel laureates - pretty good for this "small" institution. also, really beautiful campus/library/dining area, esp. in spring and fall!

all these amazing institutions are literally joined at the hip, being right across the street from each other. one ID badge gets you access to all these places.
an example:
1a) attendings at memorial hold positions in the medical college. so when we were learning about the thorax in 1st year, surgeons from memorial would come to discuss the anatomy and lymphatics of the breast and how the basic science histology/anatomy was essential for understanding cancer development and spread. this type of teaching situation is commonplace (i did my neuro physical exam portion at memorial as well).

1b) when we went through hand and arm anatomy, guys from Hospital of Special Surgery (HSS) stopped their practices for the 2-3 hours of classtime and came down and taught us in small groups. rheumatology was the same scenariao. during intro anesthesiology (last week), i spent the first morning at HSS in the OR with an attending during a bilateral knee replacement procedure.

1c) all the attending physicians during my time here have been really approachable. interested in bioterrorism, you can develop a project with infectious disease people/public health (as a couple of classmates did)
if you want to see a cardiothoracic operation, just call ahead and they'd be happy to have you. the same went for my experiences in geriatrics (a great, great department with supportive, talented people)

1d) columbia and cornell have a diverse array of clinical teaching settings. in cornell's case, you have the flagship hospitals mentioned above, as well as your core 3rd year rotations at hospitals in the bronx, brookyn, and queens. a very different population throughout these 4 bouroughs. for example. lincoln hospital, located in the south bronx, is the 2nd busiest trauma center in new york city (after King's county hosp.) and if you do surgery there you will see lots of knife/gunshot/car accidents, etc. the point being if you choose, you can do all your rotations at NYH or ALL OF THEM AT AWAY SITES (except for medicine, which is required at NYH).... you can of course, mix and match sites: so for example this year i'm doing peds, ob/gyn, medicine at NYH and lincoln, and surgery in queens, and psych in westchester.

2) this being said, no matter where you go, you have to decide where your quality of life as a med student will fit your lifestyle the best. in my case, a big factor was that during the first two years: almost all days end at 12:30-1:00. that gives you plenty of time to pursue outside activities such as research or hobbies or excercise/sports and still have time to do the necesssary studying. i worked part time one to two nights a week at a cooking school (i like to cook) during anatomy/physiology, hung out / partied plenty and still had time to do well.

3) as for where cornell is: the location of cornell is really NICE (both relatively speaking from a geographical standpoint- close to everything - and from a physical standpoint- the upper east side itself- relatively staid, but nice to live in once in your life.)
very close to resplendent central park (a huge plus), some of the finest restuarants in new york, museums galore (met, guggenheim, fick collection, whitney, etc), a quick bus ride across the park to lincoln center (performing arts), imax movie theaters, Fairway market(!) and it's 25 minutes away from chinatown (yum) and the up and coming lower east side, dance clubs, experimental plays, etc. etc.

4) as for my colleagues here. coming off a 4 yr hiatus from academics, i was happily impressed that our class really worked well together, both from returning students, and students coming straight from undergrad. the mantra really is med students have to work together, or med school will be totally crappy. that being said, i truly feel quite comfortable calling my colleagues today, 5 years, 10 yrs, 20 yrs, down the road when i need that cardiology or psych consult. cornell students are generally a varied and likeable, laid back-bunch, in my experience. the years ahead of us also have provided lots of advice and guidance on how to succeed.

5) in terms of curriculum. i felt cornell gave me a good grounding in most aspects of basic science and in the end, most of the board study time was intense, but maneageable. the two major flaws in cornell i would say would be micro and pharm: you really need to spend time on this yourself during your 2nd year to learn this on your own in a clinically/board study relevent way. it is not taught well here the first two years. that being said, 99% of students pass the boards, and match to top programs throughout the country, tho this is more a testament to the overall soundness of students and their superior clinical training in 3rd and 4th years (which factor much more in residency selection)
on the flip side: basic science biggies such as pathology, pathophysiology, anatomy, neuroanatomy and physiology, histo, cardiology, GI, rheum, are taught well here, in my opinion. I've also had very good experiences with PBL throughout my two years.

clinically speaking, the subinternship (required month) in fourth year is very very strong. highly intense but a superior learning experience from every one i've spoken to.

6) classrooms: White boards on most every wall in PBL, flat screen 22 inch plasma screens, Mac G5 supercomputers coming this fall.
brand new glistening anatomy lab w/ 45" plasma screen tv's, and stadium seating in the radiology/case presentation room.
cornell has lots of money.

7) neat programs such as MD-MPH programs (with cornell and columbia: this is still going on: check out the columbia mailman school's website), MD-MBA (with cornell in NYC and cornell ithaca), and MD-PhD prgrams with cornell, memorial, or rockefeller (even after being accepted as a med student only).

there are other great plusses here at cornell. if you're interested, i'd be glad to reply to any questions you may have; or direct you to the right person if i don't have the answer.

in the end, no matter where you go, be happy as a med student and that can only contribute to making you a better doctor to your patients and their families.

good luck in your decision.>


* as an aside, MedMan3 ended up going to Cornell, and became the president for his class. Needless to say, he likes it here 🙂 ; anyway, I see him on a regular basis, so give him a email to get his perspective.

Once again, you can't go wrong with either school. Take initiative, learn to work as part of a team during your med school years, and you'll be a superstar, wherever!

 

[BOSSofCU]

I also attended both second looks and I came out in favor of Columbia. For me, I like the fact that Columbia has the undergrad within reach, as well as all the other grad programs. Public health was a toss up because Cornell claimed earlier that there was an "arrangement" with Columbia, but as they told us at the second look, that's been canned. I'm really interested in an MD/MPH so the Columbia situation is much more conducive to that. I also got the feeling that Columbia was much more fun--both were equally friendly I would say. I realize these weekends are a bit of show, but my impression was that Columbia students are much more involved (and there were more really attractive people, not that that is any kind of make-or-break criterion). I felt like Columbia was much more of a community and had a little of an undergrad "essence" as far as class cohesiveness. Cornell left me thinking more people had established lives outside of medical school and spent more time doing that. This is great for some, but I'm only 22 and not married or anything. Although Cornell is in a nicer area, I thought Columbia itself was nicer. The dorm was nicer, the common areas, the interview areas, too. The residence hall at Cornell where everything happened just seemed really rundown and depressing to me. Columbia's Bard Hall is definitely old, but feels more distinguished with its age. The whole hospital situation doesn't really factor in my decision at all. I don't buy the bull**** that you get subpar clinical experiences at Cornell because of it's location. PBL vs traditional also didn't really pull me in either direction. Those are just my quick thoughts, but I may be able to respond to more specific issues if you ask.

I'm a first year at Cornell and I'd say that it's absolutely not the case that most people in my class have established lives outside of the med school. That's almost a bad thing, but in essence it's because our class gets along really well, and I can honestly say that I've never been part of a group or "community" with such a strong identity and cohesiveness. Interestingly, I don't think that the second year class above us has the same sense of community, and a higher proportion of that class does have a New York social life rooted outside of the medical school. I think it's a bit of a random quality of the classes to a certain degree, and depending on who you talked to at the second look, you might get differing views on this. But the impression you came away with is completely inconsistent with my experience here.

As for the dorm, you don't get to see the 2nd through 4th year dorm usually. It's much nicer apartment style living.

As you said the idea that the clinical experience is worse is ridiculous. As a first year I spent thursdays with the chief of thoracic oncology at Sloan Kettering one semester and at Cornell's affiliated Methodist hospital in Brooklyn (very hands on) this semester. A huge percentage of every New York hospital's patient population comes from medicare and medicaid patients. The time I've spent in NYP Cornell so far was at CSS which ONLY cares for AIDS patients without insurance. Not to metion that other than medicine your rotations can be done at affiliated hospitals in any of the boroughs.

One probably can't go wrong with chosing between Columbia and Cornell and many have struggled with this choice before. PM me if anyone has other questions.

 

[edfig99]

i loved my four years at cornell and would do med school there all over again in a heart beat if i had to.

that being said, med school is med school is med school is med.....etc. the OP has to factor in all the "non med-school" factors into making his/her decision -- don't underestimate the importance of financial aid packages and quality of life (including social support) in making your decision.