Columbia vs. UCLA

[Tufts R Us]

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OK, I promise I did my research--read every Columbia/UCLA versus thread there ever was, weighed the pros and cons, talked to students from both schools and I still don't know which school to pick...

Thing's to consider:

- I'm a CA resident but price difference is only about 40-50k over 4 years and this difference will only decrease with UC tuition hikes (I read in the UCLA annual report that the professional school fee, which is about 22k/yr, will go up 15% next year) And who knows, layoffs may be next...

- I want to specialize and, referring to this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9837966, I feel that Columbia may give a slight edge because of it's name and reputation. And if you look at Emory's OMFS resident page (http://www.surgery.emory.edu/divisions/oral-maxillofacial-surgery/omfs-resident-staffs.html), nearly every resident is a Columbia grad!! Why is this?

- I like both cities, LA and NYC, equally and feel I can be happy at either one. But of course, it'll be more of a hassle to move to NYC and having to fly to see family. Students and faculty did seem a bit happier at UCLA though.

- I like the idea of Columbia's med school integration and, in light of boards going P/F, I feel like this would be a bonus by reason of possibly better preparing students for the nBME or any other new residency test.

These are some factors I've been considering that I can think of at the moment. Anyways, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[amcmahon]

I dont really think In State tuition will go up 22k. If you think about it, the full cost of education is what out-of-state students pay so the most an in state student will pay is that cost which is equal to Columbia (~$80k total)..

Also it sounds like family is pretty important to you. How far away are you from home right now?

 

[flapaTron]

2 great schools, indeed your decision will be tough. either way, you will be a competent DDS upon graduation.

1. Cost should be most important. obviously with Ca's budget problems, the tuition could take a turn for the worst as is the case with most state schools. But even then columbia will likely be more expensive.
2. As you should surmise from that thread you referenced, the important aspect that places you into speciality is NOT where you went to dental school, but rather the degree to which you busted your a** in dental school. this is not to say that Columbia doesn't offer certain things that other schools may not (in terms of research opportunities, excellent med school education, etc.), but the importance of these items are subjective to the value of the student.
3. if OMS programs end up using the NBME, this may confer an advantage to students of dental schools curriculums are privileged to be integrated into their respective medical schools. But again, this is subjective and should not preclude the individual initiative you must take in dental school, wherever you decide to go.

 

[Tufts R Us]

but what if the NBME/other standardized test thing never happens. would school reputation play a bigger role in residency admissions?

EDIT: Anyone by chance have the match rates (not specialization percentages) at each school?

 

[poki]

I was just in NYC this weekend and seriously the weather alone would make me choose ucla over Columbia...

Cost of living is higher in NYC and private d school tuitions have also been increasing in the past few years so I would expect columbias tuition to increase as well in the next 4 years

I also would not consider uclas reputation to be any worse than columbias especially on the west coast; for competitive residencies like ortho usually all students that apply match into a program every year...

Those are some of the reasons I would choose ucla over Columbia but both are great schools in great locations that will give u a great chance to specialize. I don't think u can go wrong w either one

 

[johnr43210]

I was just in NYC this weekend and seriously the weather alone would make me choose ucla over Columbia...

Cost of living is higher in NYC and private d school tuitions have also been increasing in the past few years so I would expect columbias tuition to increase as well in the next 4 years

I also would not consider uclas reputation to be any worse than columbias especially on the west coast; for competitive residencies like ortho usually all students that apply match into a program every year...

Those are some of the reasons I would choose ucla over Columbia but both are great schools in great locations that will give u a great chance to specialize. I don't think u can go wrong w either one

Both are good schools. Keep in mind, however, that columbia has 90% of students going into specialty programs. Also, while Im not trying to imply anything here, Poki here was accepted to UCLA a while ago, but still interviewed at Columbia 3 days ago. Just saying...everyone has different reasons to go to different schools. since you are interested in specializing...yeah..but if you are wanting to practice in CA, maybe UCLA is a better option.

 

[rickblas]

Both are good schools. Keep in mind, however, that columbia has 90% of students going into specialty programs. Also, while Im not trying to imply anything here, Poki here was accepted to UCLA a while ago, but still interviewed at Columbia 3 days ago. Just saying...everyone has different reasons to go to different schools. since you are interested in specializing...yeah..but if you are wanting to practice in CA, maybe UCLA is a better option.

A big chunk of those specializing are still GPR/AEGD though. And the number is high because if you want to practice in NY you need a 1yr residency anyway. Nonetheless, placement for the non general residencies are still high. i think it was 40%? Anyone with the exact number?

 

[johnr43210]

A big chunk of those specializing are still GPR/AEGD though. And the number is high because if you want to practice in NY you need a 1yr residency anyway. Nonetheless, placement for the non general residencies are still high. i think it was 40%? Anyone with the exact number?

I am pretty sure it's around 60%. Upenn is aorund 40%. UCLA is much lower I think.

 

[amcmahon]

A big chunk of those specializing are still GPR/AEGD though. And the number is high because if you want to practice in NY you need a 1yr residency anyway. Nonetheless, placement for the non general residencies are still high. i think it was 40%? Anyone with the exact number?

Im looking at Columbia's hand out right now--they do boost their scores by including GPR but its still high, 56% in 2010 and 55% in 2009.

UCLA didnt include their stats in a hand out but I want to say it was like close to 45% that continued on. They definitely said only 3 of their students did not match which I think is impressive.

 

[rickblas]

Im looking at Columbia's hand out right now--they do boost their scores by including GPR but its still high, 56% in 2010 and 55% in 2009.

UCLA didnt include their stats in a hand out but I want to say it was like close to 45% that continued on. They definitely said only 3 of their students did not match which I think is impressive.

thanks folks! hopefully this helps some of these "cali school VS ivy league" people decide. (lawl i didnt apply to ucla and didnt get into columbia (yet? maybe? ya...) so har har)

 

[JBieber]

Look at UCLA's annual report for actual numbers--around 30-40% in "real" specialties if I remember correctly. Not as impressive as Columbia's numbers.

 

[toothes]

jbieber, so where do you think tufts r us should go? he seems to be in a pickle.

 

[gigawatt]

Look at UCLA's annual report for actual numbers--around 30-40% in "real" specialties if I remember correctly. Not as impressive as Columbia's numbers.

Correct 👍. Excluding GPR/AEGD's, UCLA places approximately 33% of its class into specialty programs; Columbia places 55%.

I compared the two officially available breakdowns side-by-side, though, and they're quite similar throughout, with the most noticable exception being that Columbia sent 14 onto pediatrics programs, while UCLA sent only 5. This spike only dates back to the Class of 2009 at Columbia, though. Also, keep in mind, however, that Columbia has a slightly smaller class--about 10 or so smaller than UCLA's.

Basically the statistics are far and away similar enough to the point where the school's name is not going to be a deciding factor in any way. It's going to come down to the individual...but I hope everyone already realized that 😉. Personally, it's down to Columbia vs. UCLA for me, and, as a Cali resident, I'm finding it hard not to lean towards UCLA.

 

[flapaTron]

don't let statistics influence your choice of dental school. those are just numbers that merely (and somewhat un-accurately) reflect the culture of a given school.

when you're in the heat of dental school and classes suck and are literally destroying your soul, thinking to yourself "well at least this school has great specialization statistics" is NOT going to make you feel any better about your initial decision.

i encourage you to go to the school where you see yourself being happiest based on truly important personal factors.

this is coming from someone who goes to one of the above mentioned schools.

 

[gigawatt]

don't let statistics influence your choice of dental school. those are just numbers that merely (and somewhat un-accurately) reflect the culture of a given school.

when your in the heat of dental school and classes suck are literally destroying your soul, thinking to yourself "well at least this school has great specialization statistics" is NOT going to make you feel any better about your initial decision.

i encourage you to go to the school where you see yourself being happiest based truly important personal factors.

👍 Well said, sir.

 

[Tufts R Us]

bumpp. thx for the responses guys. anyone have those match rates?

also, i know columbia is known for their strong didactics (med school classes), but how would you say UCLA compares?

 

[Tufts R Us]

I was just in NYC this weekend and seriously the weather alone would make me choose ucla over Columbia...

Cost of living is higher in NYC and private d school tuitions have also been increasing in the past few years so I would expect columbias tuition to increase as well in the next 4 years

I also would not consider uclas reputation to be any worse than columbias especially on the west coast; for competitive residencies like ortho usually all students that apply match into a program every year...

Those are some of the reasons I would choose ucla over Columbia but both are great schools in great locations that will give u a great chance to specialize. I don't think u can go wrong w either one

i don't doubt ucla's reputation in the eyes of ortho residencies but what about omfs residencies? wouldn't omfs residencies prefer columbia students because they did med school?

 

[poki]

I personally don't feel you will have any less of a chance specializing in OMFS if you go to UCLA than Columbia because UCLA is also well known for their didactics...

Apparently 9 from UCLA matched into OMFS last year
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=696795

If you were able to gain acceptances to both of these highly competitive schools, I have no doubt you can match into OMFS no matter which school you attend...good luck in your decision...

 

[johnr43210]

i don't doubt ucla's reputation in the eyes of ortho residencies but what about omfs residencies? wouldn't omfs residencies prefer columbia students because they did med school?

if cost isnt much of an issue for you, and if you are interested in omfs,

i would go to columbia.

 

[toothes]

where's charm at when you need him/her? yeah, i'm calling you out.

 

[Tufts R Us]

if cost isnt much of an issue for you, and if you are interested in omfs,

i would go to columbia.

please elaboratee..

 

[amcmahon]

I doubt going to UCLA is going to hurt your chances into getting matched with an omfs program. Both are highly competitive schools with spectacular faculty and reputations.

 

[Charmm]

Ricky bobby

 

[Charmm]

country.

 

[binsbts]

I think at this point there is enough info for predents to decide which school to go when they are having doubts.

What makes this whole discussion interesting is the fact that boards are P/F for the class of 2014 on. For class of 2014, in few years we will see for real which schools are the best in the country.

if it were me and i wanted to specialize, i would choose columbia but that's just me.....it really depends on one's career goals and future plans.

 

[Tufts R Us]

I think at this point there is enough info for predents to decide which school to go when they are having doubts.
Getting into OMFS or any other residency will depend on a ton of factors and I dont know what really guarantees ones acceptance into ortho or omfs or peds, which in my opinion soon will become second if not the first hottest residency.


I know one thing though, I do not want to compete with columbia students. The scariest thing is trying to compete with columbians for residency spots; honest to god I am saying the truth. Why? you will only know why if you attend columbia.



What makes this whole discussion interesting is the fact that boards are P/F for the class of 2014 on.
For class of 2014, in few years we will see for real which schools are the best in the country.

i know!! that's why it's somewhat tougher to pick now because i can't always work off of points brought up in past threads.


So... that's 2 now telling me i should go to columbia if i intend on specializing.. this is tough

 

[Pennywisdom]

i know!! that's why it's somewhat tougher to pick now because i can't always work off of points brought up in past threads.


So... that's 2 now telling me i should go to columbia if i intend on specializing.. this is tough

My guess is that all schools will adopt a class-rank system. 😀

 

[Charmm]

flapa tron is mega tron

 

[flapaTron]

both are great schools op. remember, schools do not 'make' specialists, individual initiative makes a specialist. going to columbia does to "give" you a spot in residency more than going UCLA would. either way, the specialization statistics are almost identical.

i encourage you to keep an open mind in dental school. you may ultimately fall in love with general practice (besides, they have the widest scope and are the foundation to dentistry).

 

[Maygyver]

I was just in NYC this weekend and seriously the weather alone would make me choose ucla over Columbia...

Cost of living is higher in NYC and private d school tuitions have also been increasing in the past few years so I would expect columbias tuition to increase as well in the next 4 years

I also would not consider uclas reputation to be any worse than columbias especially on the west coast; for competitive residencies like ortho usually all students that apply match into a program every year...

Those are some of the reasons I would choose ucla over Columbia but both are great schools in great locations that will give u a great chance to specialize. I don't think u can go wrong w either one

Housing in NYC seemed to be cheaper than Westwood. I wouldn't really decide based on cost of living because they are both pretty much the same, and that stuff is already calculated in the cost of the school and living expenses.

 

[KillaCam]

Hey what did you end up picking, Tufts R Us?

I am in the same dilemma as you are/were.....it's certainly great to be in this amazing position but it's a tough choice!!

 

[kitejunky27]

everyone goes on about people who specialize being able to specialize no matter where they go. This is certainly true to a degree but i am just going to flat out say that going to columbia helps.

something like 13 out of 15 people matched ortho this year. Thats ridiculous. Also having HALF the class, and not necessarily the top half, match a program is ridiculous. I have a hard time believing that students at state schools are of that much lower caliber then here since the whole d school thing is so competitive anyway so you cant just count on going to your state school and tearing it up. Some of the smartest candidates are going to go to state schools because they are cheapest as everyones always yelling about.

personally i like shooting for the top half of my class (not even required) instead of the top 10%. definitely takes away ALOT of the competitiveness.