Columbia vs Upenn...

[ddsjymaeng]

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I just got an interview from Upenn and wanna observe the school just for in case... But still my frist choice is columbia...

Just curious about Upenn... what kind of pros and cons would there be in
Upenn and Columbia...

Appreciate your feedbacks...

 

[DDSY]

Well, if you're going after reputation and prestige, UPenn is traditionally a more well-reputed school than Columbia, according to www.usnews.com.

 

[dentstd]

Well, if you're going after reputation and prestige, UPenn is traditionally a more well-reputed school than Columbia, according to www.usnews.com.

Penn's huge, esp in recent years. Columbia's alright.

 

[coolraz]

Well, if you're going after reputation and prestige, UPenn is traditionally a more well-reputed school than Columbia, according to www.usnews.com.

Lol. You are quoting usnews.com which has no rankings for dental schools. the only school whose rep really matters is harvard, all the rest are the same (in terms of reputation, there is huge differences in terms of professors, facilities, clinical instruction, boards preparation, research oportunities etc...)

 

[Revelde]

If you are chosing after school's reputation,,, they both have pretty big names... (Penn #7, Columbia #9 according to USNews) ..not much different.. I would say.. hard to compare, or pretty much the same level overall.
However, if you look at little details.. it will be a bit easier to make your decision.

Columbia costs less than Penn, but its in the city.. so has probably higher COL.

 

[DDSY]

Lol. You are quoting usnews.com which has no rankings for dental schools. the only school whose rep really matters is harvard, all the rest are the same (in terms of reputation, there is huge differences in terms of professors, facilities, clinical instruction, boards preparation, research oportunities etc...)

Yes, I know there is no ranking for dental school. But accounting for all rankings and also the medical school ranking (which I think count heavily in this case--considering the degree of overlap between med and dental school curriculum), there's no doubt that UPenn is a more reputed school. This is not to say that I would base my decision to attend school on this, but I do recognize that for many people, this counts heavily.

 

[ddsjymaeng]

any ideas?

 

[dentstd]

Reputation of the school only matters in certain fields. Matters a good deal in business. Matters extremely in law. Matters very little in medicine. Matters very, very little in dentistry.

Those shelling out the big G's in dental for for the reputation'll be in quite a bit of shock when they find out it matters jack. There's a bunch on SDN who have little experience with name schools. It gives people the "ooh's" and "aah's," but in the end, it doesn't matter much. What matters is how well you think, reason, and exert judgment. Go to Columbia. Go to Penn. But if you're going for the name, you may be in for a surprise.

 

[dentstd]

any ideas?

what clinical? Your top choice is CU, and they don't start clinical til 3rd year. You can expect your hands to be less skilled and controlled off the bat than everybody elses'. You're choosing name over craft.

 

[DDSY]

Reputation of the school only matters in certain fields. Matters a good deal in business. Matters extremely in law. Matters very little in medicine. Matters very, very little in dentistry.

Those shelling out the big G's in dental for for the reputation'll be in quite a bit of shock when they find out it matters jack. There's a bunch on SDN who have little experience with name schools. It gives people the "ooh's" and "aah's," but in the end, it doesn't matter much. What matters is how well you think, reason, and exert judgment. Go to Columbia. Go to Penn. But if you're going for the name, you may be in for a surprise.

Obviously, it matters to a lot of people in this forum. I would think you would be the last person to say that too😉

As an asian, I know how much it matters to many asians--though this does not necessarily apply to me. In fact, I was accepted to some undergrad ivies but decided not to attend any of them.

 

[DDSY]

Obviously, it matters to a lot of people in this forum. I would think you would be the last person to say that too😉

As an asian, I know how much it matters to many asians--though this does not necessarily apply to me. In fact, I was accepted to some undergrad ivies but decided not to attend any of them.

Although I still do think that NYU is very reputable school😉

 

[ddsjymaeng]

2nd year?

 

[Bman984]

I heard UPenn charges you for any patients that don't pay clinical bills.

 

[prez_al]

Obviously, it matters to a lot of people in this forum. I would think you would be the last person to say that too😉

As an asian, I know how much it matters to many asians--though this does not necessarily apply to me. In fact, I was accepted to some undergrad ivies but decided not to attend any of them.

I agree with you. Kinda in a dilemma right now because of it. To ddsjymaeng, I would definitely go to your Penn interview, and then decide what you think of it. Just keep in mind, it might suck having a class size of 120 vs. 75. I think you start clinic in 3rd year at Penn... similar to Columbia.

 

[Goddess]

Hey, I am in your situation, got accepted to both upenn and columbia and kinda having hard time choosing one. As of now I'm going with columbia. I have talked with couple of students of each school and it seems columbia's are happier. Even though they start their clinics on their third year but they all said they learn everything, and cant imagine how much they learn over the summer of third year.
they said upenn is very cut through, but Columbia since it has p/f system, is much less stressful. And they have the second highest board scores after Harvard, and the reason is having classes with medstudents, since you learn more.
It might be true that the name doesnt matter to patients at all, but think if it pleases you, me personally I always wanted to go to a top school, or as you say ivy league, So I'm willing to decline my maryland acceptance(half tuition) to go to Columbia or even upenn.
I’m going to visit Columbia again next week and I will update you 😉

 

[ddsjymaeng]

u sure about the board score?
that is amazing...
I will just visit and see...it is only an interview...I was thinking about declining it or not... since CU is my 1st right now...
thanks

 

[icepinkish]

Hey, I am in your situation, got accepted to both upenn and columbia and kinda having hard time choosing one. As of now I'm going with columbia. I have talked with couple of students of each school and it seems columbia's are happier. Even though they start their clinics on their third year but they all said they learn everything, and cant imagine how much they learn over the summer of third year.
they said upenn is very cut through, but Columbia since it has p/f system, is much less stressful. And they have the second highest board scores after Harvard, and the reason is having classes with medstudents, since you learn more.
It might be true that the name doesnt matter to patients at all, but think if it pleases you, me personally I always wanted to go to a top school, or as you say ivy league, So I'm willing to decline my maryland acceptance(half tuition) to go to Columbia or even upenn.
I'm going to visit Columbia again next week and I will update you 😉

Columbia has Honor/P/NP so it's not really all that laid back. I think it's a great school for anyone who wants to specialize, but for people who want to be general dentists may want to think again. Columbia's 97% specialty rate is actually 50% real specialty plus 47% AEGD/GPR. Such a high rate of genral dentistry residency, I believe, somewhat shows its inadequate clinical training.
When I interviewed there, Dr. McManus even said that the columbia faculty believes general dentistry residency is necessary, because otherwise it is "inadequate." Basically he was saying that strong didatics is essential for one to be a good dentist, 4 years just isn't enough for people to learn both that and all the clinical skills.

Having said that, I am still a bigger fan of Columbia than Penn since students and faculty there were SO lovable. I also liked NY more than Philly.

 

[MrZ123]

Columbia has Honor/P/NP so it's not really all that laid back. I think it's a great school for anyone who wants to specialize, but for people who want to be general dentists may want to think again. Columbia's 97% specialty rate is actually 50% real specialty plus 47% AEGD/GPR. Such a high rate of genral dentistry residency, I believe, somewhat shows its inadequate clinical training.
When I interviewed there, Dr. McManus even said that the columbia faculty believes general dentistry residency is necessary, because otherwise it is "inadequate." Basically he was saying that strong didatics is essential for one to be a good dentist, 4 years just isn't enough for people to learn both that and all the clinical skills.

Having said that, I am still a bigger fan of Columbia than Penn since students and faculty there were SO lovable. I also liked NY more than Philly.

The high residency rate may also be because Columbia is in NY, which requires the GPR to practice in state. Penn, on the other hand, is in Pennsylvania which has no such GPR requirement.

 

[thehipster]

...

 

[dentstd]

Columbia has the 2nd highest board passage rate. Could be because they have classes with med students. Could be because they have the 2nd highest DAT average in the country. Regardless, CU's an excellent school. Penn has a bigger overall presense, thou. If you wanna have high-powered friends out the wazoo, Penn's the place to be.

It's Harvard, Princeton, Yale/Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth/Brown.

 

[r0entgen]

Hey, I am in your situation, got accepted to both upenn and columbia and kinda having hard time choosing one. As of now I'm going with columbia. I have talked with couple of students of each school and it seems columbia's are happier. Even though they start their clinics on their third year but they all said they learn everything, and cant imagine how much they learn over the summer of third year.
they said upenn is very cut through, but Columbia since it has p/f system, is much less stressful. And they have the second highest board scores after Harvard, and the reason is having classes with medstudents, since you learn more.
It might be true that the name doesnt matter to patients at all, but think if it pleases you, me personally I always wanted to go to a top school, or as you say ivy league, So I'm willing to decline my maryland acceptance(half tuition) to go to Columbia or even upenn.
I’m going to visit Columbia again next week and I will update you 😉

um. i don't really know who you've been talking to, but i've heard the complete opposite. i have a friend currently at columbia and he tells me it's hella competitive and cutthroat there. i'm attending penn right now, and i don't think it's cutthroat here at all. all the students want to do well, but it's all for their own sake really. classmates still e-mail out notes to the entire class, help each other out, and such.

i don't think grades are much of an issue. most of our averages on exams range from mid 80s to low 90s. so no need for curving, which means your grade doesn't depend on your classmates' performance.

anyway, columbia is hp/p/np, which really translates to A/B/F. it's just missing one step of the scale. i don't see why that's less stressful. people are still going to gun for the A regardless. the only way p/f is going to be less stressful is if it's purely PASS, or FAIL. and that's the end of it. that way, the there's no way to distinguish the higher scoring bunch of people.

 

[v&andy_yankee]

^^I disagree. If Columbia was letter grades vs. H/P/F, our lives would be much more stressful. During the exam blocks, when everyone is stressing out, I always take a deep breath and think, "Well, no matter how terrible I think I could do, at least I'll pass." And it's because of that mentality that I'm able to get 7 hours of sleep even before exams (vs. pulling all-nighters!). People do NOT slack off, we still try our best, but rather the stress is decreased.

First-years tend to be more competitive, and I think it's because they're just adjusting to each other (scoping each other out) and the school. But by the time second year rolls around and we have exams every week, ppl are more densensitized--you realize that it's impossible to aim for honors in each class 😉 You'd drive yourself nuts. Oh, and we all email notes to each other as well 🙂

 

[Mackchops]

I just don't understand people who put down Columbia for it's "lack" of clinical training. That kind of training is just speed and practice practice practice. I would rather have a solid understanding of the science and healthcare aspects behind my tx plan with a patient than just know how to copy and paste a particular procedure into a given scenario. Columbia tries to train a healthcare provider, not a tooth mechanic. I agree that 4 years isn't long enough which is why NY, Delaware, Ct (and a number of states pending) have incorporated the 1-year residency requirement. It doesn't matter where I end up going, I'll probably want to do some sort of post-doc anyway. Why not have the science background going in?

 

[Revelde]

👍

I just don't understand people who put down Columbia for it's "lack" of clinical training. That kind of training is just speed and practice practice practice. I would rather have a solid understanding of the science and healthcare aspects behind my tx plan with a patient than just know how to copy and paste a particular procedure into a given scenario. Columbia tries to train a healthcare provider, not a tooth mechanic. I agree that 4 years isn't long enough which is why NY, Delaware, Ct (and a number of states pending) have incorporated the 1-year residency requirement. It doesn't matter where I end up going, I'll probably want to do some sort of post-doc anyway. Why not have the science background going in?

I agree 200%. very well explained.

 

[greenday]

um. i don't really know who you've been talking to, but i've heard the complete opposite. i have a friend currently at columbia and he tells me it's hella competitive and cutthroat there. i'm attending penn right now, and i don't think it's cutthroat here at all. all the students want to do well, but it's all for their own sake really. classmates still e-mail out notes to the entire class, help each other out, and such.

i don't think grades are much of an issue. most of our averages on exams range from mid 80s to low 90s. so no need for curving, which means your grade doesn't depend on your classmates' performance.

anyway, columbia is hp/p/np, which really translates to A/B/F. it's just missing one step of the scale. i don't see why that's less stressful. people are still going to gun for the A regardless. the only way p/f is going to be less stressful is if it's purely PASS, or FAIL. and that's the end of it. that way, the there's no way to distinguish the higher scoring bunch of people.

Yo r0entgen, I'm assuming you are referring to me as your buddy at Columbia🙂
Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!
but Im not the best example to look at though you know. i had hard time picking up a text book, and wanted to party all weekend just like in undergrad when i started. I did complain about having to occasionally study on a Friday nite for an exam, but its chill between blocks. Generally speaking, its 3 weeks of fun, and 1 week of studying in every month, so not too bad even for a punk like me. I'm a mean person, so love to make fun of gunners, but there are some of them in every dental school in the country I'm sure.
After speaking to friends attending different schools in the country, I think I made a right choice coming to Columbia, at least for myself, but don't get me wrong r0entgen, Penn is still another favorate of mine and I couldn't stop wondering what it would be like if I did show up on the orientation day at Penn and attened Penn with you and cowsgomoo. Would have been fun too and I could have someone to copy exams from!!
Come on over to NYC and stay at my place on New Year's eve. It's gonna be fun!!

For other dents to know more about Columbia, we have a temp class website at
www.cucdm2010.com

 

[greenday]

^^I disagree. If Columbia was letter grades vs. H/P/F, our lives would be much more stressful. During the exam blocks, when everyone is stressing out, I always take a deep breath and think, "Well, no matter how terrible I think I could do, at least I'll pass." And it's because of that mentality that I'm able to get 7 hours of sleep even before exams (vs. pulling all-nighters!). People do NOT slack off, we still try our best, but rather the stress is decreased.

First-years tend to be more competitive, and I think it's because they're just adjusting to each other (scoping each other out) and the school. But by the time second year rolls around and we have exams every week, ppl are more densensitized--you realize that it's impossible to aim for honors in each class 😉 You'd drive yourself nuts. Oh, and we all email notes to each other as well 🙂

Vandy_yankee is absolutely right!! Not to mention, on Columbia dental website, every class has a class website, and on each one, there's an academic section for the classmates to share notes and old exams. It has been proven great for crammers like me🙂

 

[EmanUT]

Yo r0entgen, I'm assuming you are referring to me as your buddy at Columbia🙂
Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!
but Im not the best example to look at though you know. i had hard time picking up a text book, and wanted to party all weekend just like in undergrad when i started. I did complain about having to occasionally study on a Friday nite for an exam, but its chill between blocks. Generally speaking, its 3 weeks of fun, and 1 week of studying in every month, so not too bad even for a punk like me. I'm a mean person, so love to make fun of gunners, but there are some of them in every dental school in the country I'm sure.
After speaking to friends attending different schools in the country, I think I made a right choice coming to Columbia, at least for myself, but don't get me wrong r0entgen, Penn is still another favorate of mine and I couldn't stop wondering what it would be like if I did show up on the orientation day at Penn and attened Penn with you and cowsgomoo. Would have been fun too and I could have someone to copy exams from!!
Come on over to NYC and stay at my place on New Year's eve. It's gonna be fun!!

For other dents to know more about Columbia, we have a temp class website at
www.cucdm2010.com

Can you explain these blocks for us? How does the curriculum work?

 

[INFNITE]

Can you explain these blocks for us? How does the curriculum work?

for the first year, the schedule is designed so that all the exams take place at roughly the same week or two and then you'll have a month of pretty much nothing. For example, we had 3 exams in October, the entire November free, and then we had a ton of exams in December. we have our Fall 06 schedule posted on cucdm2010.com so you can check it out

 

[dds_sdc]

Obviously, it matters to a lot of people in this forum. I would think you would be the last person to say that too😉

As an asian, I know how much it matters to many asians--though this does not necessarily apply to me. In fact, I was accepted to some undergrad ivies but decided not to attend any of them.

thats funny. im asian too. and YES.. IT MATTERS TO ASIANS. asian parents COMPARE. lol

 

[prez_al]

thats funny. im asian too. and YES.. IT MATTERS TO ASIANS. asian parents COMPARE. lol

Yes they do. And I'm getting hell for even considering turning down an Ivy. My son goes to Columbia sounds better than My son goes to Michigan...

 

[shuna]

Yes they do. And I'm getting hell for even considering turning down an Ivy. My son goes to Columbia sounds better than My son goes to Michigan...

Haha... My father dosn't want me to go to dental school, he thinks its too much work...He just told me the other day that I can still change my mind about D- school - great support lol

 

[dds_sdc]

lets just say.. the moment i said "i want to be a dentist" my relatives from california .. as well as my relatives in Asia all knew within the next 24 hrs. lol
and the next question was.. "so what does YOUR daughter wanna do?" lol oh the madness.

 

[prez_al]

lets just say.. the moment i said "i want to be a dentist" my relatives from california .. as well as my relatives in Asia all knew within the next 24 hrs. lol
and the next question was.. "so what does YOUR daughter wanna do?" lol oh the madness.

Yes, I have to be compared with a girl who's in Oxford medical right now, so I HAVE to pick Columbia, right?

In terms of family, I'm in a pretty good situation as I am the oldest and perhaps I should set the bar "super high" so then there will be tons of "asian pride"

 

[dds_sdc]

Yes, I have to be compared with a girl who's in Oxford medical right now, so I HAVE to pick Columbia, right?

In terms of family, I'm in a pretty good situation as I am the oldest and perhaps I should set the bar "super high" so then there will be tons of "asian pride"

lol see.. my situation.. im the 2nd oldest. my older brother dropped out of college. and my two younger siblings.. well lets just say.. they seem to be following the footsteps of my older brother.

im considered "the hope" for the family. lol

 

[prez_al]

lol see.. my situation.. im the 2nd oldest. my older brother dropped out of college. and my two younger siblings.. well lets just say.. they seem to be following the footsteps of my older brother.

im considered "the hope" for the family. lol

I would hate to be in your situation... crazy asian competitiveness.

 

[Flyingdentist]

Haha... My father dosn't want me to go to dental school, he thinks its too much work...He just told me the other day that I can still change my mind about D- school - great support lol

I can empathize a bit with you but in a different way. My mom is not supporting my current top choice because I may have to take out a bunch of loans versus my second and third choice where I'm being significantly funded (ie, 0 debt when I finish). I have a shot at a scholarship to my top choice but I have to apply to it after I register for the school and my mom basically told me last night I wasn't getting it and that I should listen to her.

 

[proline]

Haven't really heard much from current Penn students...