Combining EM with Sports Medicine Practice

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EMfosho

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Does anyone know examples of EM docs who combine Sports somehow in their practice (i.e. 8 shifts of EM and 1-2 days of sports clinic per week).

Just wondering what those who have done a sports fellowship go on to do with the fellowship training....

Thanks!
 
A good rule of thumb is that if you go into EM it is going to be extremely difficult to get a job where you do anything other than pull shifts in the emergency department.

Other career options are possible but exceedingly rare. Out of the probably 10 docs I've met who have some fellowship training that might allow them to have a clinic (EM/IM, sports, tox) 0/10 do.

The point is relevant because when you are deciding on your career the question you should ask yourself is "will I be happy working in an ED for the rest of my life?" not "is my 100% ideal dream job that may or may not exist going to be satisfying to me."
 
Does anyone know examples of EM docs who combine Sports somehow in their practice (i.e. 8 shifts of EM and 1-2 days of sports clinic per week).

Just wondering what those who have done a sports fellowship go on to do with the fellowship training....

Thanks!

Several folks at my orthopedist's office do (they are non-operative sports medicine, he is ortho/sports medicine). He is always encouraging me to consider his fellowship. Seems entirely possible from what these folks (who are doing it) have said.
 
That's pretty much my plan. I chose an EM/FP residency so that I would hopefully have a little bit of an edge in applying for a SM fellowship. If I do end up doing SM, I plan on obtaining a full time EM job, and then starting my SM practice from the ground up. Usually you know your EM schedule in advance, so I could schedule my patients 1 or 2 days a week when I know I'll be off from the ED. Unless, of course, I get a job as a team physician (Which I know is extremely rare) then I will probably have to re-evaluate how much EM I could do.
 
Several folks at my orthopedist's office do (they are non-operative sports medicine, he is ortho/sports medicine). He is always encouraging me to consider his fellowship. Seems entirely possible from what these folks (who are doing it) have said.


how do they balance their schedules? i.e. how many ED shifts vs. how many days in the sports clinic? thanks for the info!
 
how do they balance their schedules? i.e. how many ED shifts vs. how many days in the sports clinic? thanks for the info!

I know they work 3 days/wk in the sports clinic. Not sure how many days in the ED, but would think you'd have to do at least 6 shifts/month to keep up your skills.
 
Just keep in mind that ~90% of sports medicine fellowships go to FM trained docs...
 
thats coz most EM physicians don't apply for the fellowship, most progs would prefer EM over FP

This is not true, sports medicine involves more than just acute injuries, it involves the long term care of atheletes, something EM is not as well versed in as FM. Most fellowships are part of FM departments, and prefer FM graduates... That being said, Duke offers a sports medicine fellowship for FM, and one for EM. However n=1 in this case, most other programs prefer FM..
 
This is not true, sports medicine involves more than just acute injuries, it involves the long term care of atheletes, something EM is not as well versed in as FM. Most fellowships are part of FM departments, and prefer FM graduates... That being said, Duke offers a sports medicine fellowship for FM, and one for EM. However n=1 in this case, most other programs prefer FM..

What rockingdoctor said is true. Most applicants to sports medicine fellowships are FM grads, so of course they are represented at a higher rate. Are there SM fellowships that only take EM grads - sure. There are also a number of programs that take both.

Two fellowship directors have told me that they prefer EM grads, even though their fellowships are in the FM dept. The long term care of patients through sports medicine is part of what the fellowship is intended to teach. One fellowship director mentioned that he liked EM grads because they were more targeted and efficient and kept clinic moving.
 
What rockingdoctor said is true. Most applicants to sports medicine fellowships are FM grads, so of course they are represented at a higher rate. Are there SM fellowships that only take EM grads - sure. There are also a number of programs that take both.

Two fellowship directors have told me that they prefer EM grads, even though their fellowships are in the FM dept. The long term care of patients through sports medicine is part of what the fellowship is intended to teach. One fellowship director mentioned that he liked EM grads because they were more targeted and efficient and kept clinic moving.

One again small number, your n=2, back when I was interviewing for FM, I spoke to ~10 fellowship directors to find out what they were lookin' for in candidates for their program and they all prefered the top FM grads. This was in NC, maybe your state was difft. The top SM program in my state matched all 3 fellowship positions to grads from their FM residency program.
 
One again small number, your n=2, back when I was interviewing for FM, I spoke to ~10 fellowship directors to find out what they were lookin' for in candidates for their program and they all prefered the top FM grads. This was in NC, maybe your state was difft. The top SM program in my state matched all 3 fellowship positions to grads from their FM residency program.

2 of the fellowships in my home state don't even accept FM grads. The fellowship directors I spoke to were elsewhere, though (south and midwest).

I certainly won't argue with you that there are more SM people coming from FM. It makes sense - the lifestyle and earning potential of FM are both less than that of EM. EM folks who want to do SM are likely to take a paycut or make about the same, but spend a year or two doing an SM fellowship. Having to spend an extra year or two in training which doesn't improve earning potential is probably one of the big deterrents.

In addition, the fact that a sports medicine program fills with its own FM grads probably isn't an indication of their preference for FM grads, but rather their preference for their own. Either that or it's in a less desirable location.
 
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Earnings potential is greater with basic EM vs basic FM, but better lifestyle, I 100% disagree. Though there's no objective measure of lifestyle, with both the early burnout and divorce rates of EM being MUCH higher than that of FM, I would beg to differ with your opinion.

SM gives the EM doc a chance to branch out to something other than manning shifts in the ED (the chill outpatient lifestyle).
 
Earnings potential is greater with basic EM vs basic FM, but better lifestyle, I 100% disagree. Though there's no objective measure of lifestyle, with both the early burnout and divorce rates of EM being MUCH higher than that of FM, I would beg to differ with your opinion.

SM gives the EM doc a chance to branch out to something other than manning shifts in the ED (the chill outpatient lifestyle).

I'm not aware of any literature comparing the divorce rates of physicians in FM vs. EM. The only study I'm aware of is from JHU, and involves looking at their graduates from 1948-1964 (which were largely male, and these years predate the existence of EM as a specialty).

As for the burnout, that's been covered ad nauseum in this forum. The folks who burned out in the ED were teh ones who burned out in other specialties, then burned out in the ED (surprise, surprise). Once EM had its own residency training, its burnout rate dropped to be comparable to other specialties.

While you may think EM docs envy the "cush outpatient lifestyle" I'd argue that anyone in EM who wanted that lifestyle had a number of options to make it happen. We chose EM. The idea of giving up the ED entirely for a "cush outpatient practice" is about as appealing as sticking hot pokers in my eyeballs.

For pseduknot:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press/1997/MARCH/199703.HTM
http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/janmar97/mar1797/briefs.html (includes the citation if you want to find the NEJM article)
Obviously doesn't apply to EM, seeing as there weren't many EM folks graduating between 1948 and 1964.
 
For pseduknot:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press/1997/MARCH/199703.HTM
http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/janmar97/mar1797/briefs.html (includes the citation if you want to find the NEJM article)
Obviously doesn't apply to EM, seeing as there weren't many EM folks graduating between 1948 and 1964.

Yes, that's the one article that I was talking about. Some points about it:

1. It doesn't address EM.
2. The cohort was old, as mentioned above.
3. They actually found that physicians have a lower divorce rate than the general population, contrary to popular belief. It's an unfair comparison though, since physicians are more highly educated and marry later than the general population, and these are protective factors.
4. Surgeons don't have the highest divorce rate. Psychiatrists do.

Medical Specialty and the Incidence of Divorce
NEJM 336:800-803 (1997)
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/336/11/800
 
I spoke with a disability insurance agent and according to him we are in the "High Risk" group of specialties when it comes to claiming disability. In part due to psychiatric issues and conditions: major depression, suicide, drugs and alcohol abuse etc.

In the high risk group are also the Surgeons, Ob's, Gas...and thats all I can remember.

Avg 36 hours/week for an ED doc in the zoo that is any busy ED vs 40 maybe 46 hours in an office setting writing scripts for Zpacs..... you make the call. Boredom is a different issue.
 
Avg 36 hours/week for an ED doc in the zoo that is any busy ED vs 40 maybe 46 hours in an office setting writing scripts for Zpacs..... you make the call. Boredom is a different issue.

You don't have a clue.
 
You don't have a clue.

Agree, pretty offensive statement regarding our friends in the out-patient clinics.

Imagine sitting down with a 68 year old diabetic, hypertensive, who is rather non-compliant, and isn't the sharpest tack in the shed. You have 15 minutes to convince them why it is important to take care of diabetes, and hypertension, and to come up with a simple, affordable plan that will keep them from dying in the next 5 years (or their family will probably sue you for their death).

When we see a sick patient, it is easy for us- stabilize and treat. Those in-patient and out-patient docs realize that patients can't be in the hospital forever and that there is a time to cut bait and let the patient go home. I think this out-patient business is a true art that we should never down-play.

Many serious disorders can present with disturbingly minimal symptoms initially (all pathology is a spectrum of disease, and starts somewhere). So, catching things early, yet not ordering too many out-patient lab tests, is an art that ER docs will never have. ER docs rule out emergencies. Out-patient docs are (should be) better at getting to the most likely explanation and actually improving the chances of making patients better. We tend to shotgun tests, and boot them, "Follow-up with PCP ASAP."

If you think out-patient medicine is non-stressful, you've probably never been in a truly hectic office for a significant period of time. If you have been in an extremely busy clinic, you haven't been the person responsible for moving meat, dealing with needy, vague complaints, and the all to frequent "I have 20 vague complaints that are completely unrelated (intermittent transient paresthesias in left hand, occasional blurry vision, fatigue, indigestion, abdominal pain, dyspnea, etc.) Think of all those complaints from an out-patient doc's perspective. The differential diagnosis is unending, the yeild on testing is exceedingly low, and your gut instinct is the patient is fine, but you miss something and the patient will own you. You have minimal access to testing in the office, and you are faced with the decision of how much to do. In the ER, we have basically unlimited resources, which we wantonly waste in an effort to rule out all emergencies.

Handing out z-pacs is a common practice in an out-patient clinic, because they don't have access to CBC, chest x-rays, influenza tests, etc., that we would tend to do in a patient with cough and a fever. They can waste massive amounts of money like we do in the ER, in an effort to ensure that we don't give unneccessary antibiotics, or they can just document left lower lobe crackles, normal sats, and send them home with a z-pac for community acquired clinically diagnosed pneumonia.

Even chest x-rays aren't perfect. I've seen several pneumonias this year that both myself and radiology read as normal, but a PE CT caught, and after admission, bloomed into florid lobar pneumonia.
 
The field of SM is relatively young, and a career in it appears to be what you make of it.
If you sought out the opportunities you could probably do a few half days/wk practicing SM and the other days doing EM if you work that out with both groups. I imagine the academic setting would lend well to that especially as more EM docs enter the field. I think in a lot of ways we are well suited to the field as we see c-spine injuries, dehydration, heat illness, concussions, fractures, msk pain all the time, but we have to learn the art of long term care- return to play after concussions, fracture care, diagnosis and rehab of "acute left arm pain".

Other options are event medicine(marathons, cycling, etc etc etc), professional teams(of course you need to land the job), being a university team doc(where you take care of the sniffles/stds/belly pain of athletes and their games), covering high school games, doing non-operative ortho work(no you are not a PA, you are managing your patients and refer them to your partners only if they need surgery), working in your own SM clinic, running wellness programs at large corporations and the list could go on. Event medicine would be easy because you can definitely work shifts in the midst of organizing/staffing the event(we are better trained for this than FM given our acute skills). The real challenge as alluded to above is to learn to deal with follow up and busy office practice. That being said, at least its focused ongoing follow up with probably a finite end. Orthopods are beginning to warm up to the idea of SM handling non-op stuff and salaries are variable, but have the potential to be decent- again you have to find the right opportunities.
EM residents with an interest in SM and who have gotten some experience during or before residency(such as covering a HS football team, doing a SM rotation, covering local races) would have absolutely no trouble matching. It takes a lot of legwork to get into EM(good grades, board scores, etc), and if you gain SM experience it makes you a very strong applicant. The question you will be asked over and over is why( you could be taking a paycut) and what will you do with it? Of course those answers are different for all- love of the field, lifestyle improvements, etc.

I hope this answers some questions. My best advice is that if you have interest in any EM subspecialty, get involved to see what its about, even if its just a little each year- it will go far if you decide to pursue the field come 3rd year. We all chose EM because we love the medicine, but many of us also think about the stress of shift work on our bodies and lives, not to mention the other weights EM and our patients place on our shoulders- if you can find an outlet that may balance it, then I think one year extra is worth it.
 
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