COMLEX Not Accepted

[thundercat77]

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Hello....I am a 4th year osteopathic medical student and I've applied to a program in IM. The director's assisant told me point-blank that I will most likely not get an interview because I had not taken or released my USMLE scores.

Is this acceptable or even legal?

Anyone have any information regarding similar situations?

Thanks.

 

[Doc Oc]

U of Utah requires USMLE and will not interview you without them. I'm sure there are others.

I used to know more, because a few years ago before I got sick, I was applying to IM residencies, and ran into that problem. I have since taken both USMLEs, but changed my mind on specialities (now applying FM).

I wish I remembered where the other places were. I do remember applying to about 20 places and only receiving interview invites to half. I was a bit surprised at that. My grades/COMLEX/letters/extracurrics are pretty good, and I didn't apply to many competitive programs - UMish and UWash were really the only two reaches.

Who knows, maybe it was me, but it could have been the non-USMLE, because that's what it was at about 4-5 of the places.

 

[sophiejane]

It's legal, and it's completely within a program's rights to refuse COMLEX.

I still don't understand why people who plan on applying to ACGME programs don't just take the dang USMLE, but that's neither here nor there. I took both exams on both steps and lived to tell. Not that big of a deal.

At this point, I would write that program off and focus on the ones that don't make a policy of not accepting the COMLEX. It's too late in the season to start fighting battles like this, and you are not likely to win.

 

[thundercat77]

I agree, it's too little and too late to fight it. However, I didn't think it was legal for programs to not accept the COMLEX.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[mig26x]

I think Michigan only accepts USMLE and not the comlex

And yes, its legal.

 

[smgilles]

I agree, it's too little and too late to fight it. However, I didn't think it was legal for programs to not accept the COMLEX.

Thanks for the responses.

There are also programs that "accept" the COMLEX and then proceed to accept your application fee and put your application in the trash. At least they told you up front.

 

[badgas]

I agree, it's too little and too late to fight it. However, I didn't think it was legal for programs to not accept the COMLEX.

Thanks for the responses.

Illegal? You are applying to an allopathic residency. If you want to play in their sandbox then you have to play by their rules! It is LEGAL for them to not only refuse the comlex but also refuse all DO's.

 

[mig26x]

Illegal? You are applying to an allopathic residency. If you want to play in their sandbox then you have to play by their rules! It is LEGAL for them to not only refuse the comlex but also refuse all DO's.

That's what I thougth too. If you are applying to an allopathic residency then I dont see anything wrong for them to only ask for the USMLE.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There are also programs that "accept" the COMLEX and then proceed to accept your application fee and put your application in the trash. At least they told you up front.

Just to be clear, programs do not get any of the money you pay to ERAS for application. In fact, I believe we have to pay a small fee to be involved in ERAS also.

I expect there may be a few programs out there that do not use ERAS and charge an app fee -- obviously the above does not apply for those.

 

[ekydrd]

It's legal, and it's completely within a program's rights to refuse COMLEX.

I still don't understand why people who plan on applying to ACGME programs don't just take the dang USMLE, but that's neither here nor there. I took both exams on both steps and lived to tell. Not that big of a deal.

At this point, I would write that program off and focus on the ones that don't make a policy of not accepting the COMLEX. It's too late in the season to start fighting battles like this, and you are not likely to win.

Being allopathic myself I thought the same thing... until I realized that DO med students wanting to apply for allo residencies would be paying for both the COMLEX and the USMLE... about twice as much as I had to pay... and it's expensive. It can be a big deal for those with financial issues.

 

[smgilles]

Being allopathic myself I thought the same thing... until I realized that DO med students wanting to apply for allo residencies would be paying for both the COMLEX and the USMLE... about twice as much as I had to pay... and it's expensive. It can be a big deal for those with financial issues.

But should a person let $900 be the determining factor on where/what they can pursue as a residency? It was money well spent if you ask me. Every interview I have been on they thank me for taking both steps of USMLE because they aren't sure how/what COMLEX scores even mean.

 

[mig26x]

can graduates of allopathic schools go to DO residencies? And would they take the USMLE if that was the case?

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

It's legal, and it's completely within a program's rights to refuse COMLEX.

I still don't understand why people who plan on applying to ACGME programs don't just take the dang USMLE, but that's neither here nor there. I took both exams on both steps and lived to tell. Not that big of a deal.

At this point, I would write that program off and focus on the ones that don't make a policy of not accepting the COMLEX. It's too late in the season to start fighting battles like this, and you are not likely to win.

I still don't understand why people who plan on applying to ACGME programs go to an osteopathic (DO) school?

 

[RuralMedicine]

I still don't understand why people who plan on applying to ACGME programs go to an osteopathic (DO) school?

I think the crux of the issue is that some allopathic residency programs within some specialties are stronger than osteopathic residency programs within the same specialty. The converse of this statement is also true. I think one characteristic that successful physicians (allopathic or osteopathic) have in common is that they take advantage of opportunities to improve their skills and advance their knowledge. Although I'm proud to be a DO, I felt that the top allopathic programs within my specialty offered me the best training opportunities. Therefore I applied to allopathic residency programs and matched at my first choice. I also continue to belong to the AOA and served on AOA committees as a resident.

 

[sophiejane]

Being allopathic myself I thought the same thing... until I realized that DO med students wanting to apply for allo residencies would be paying for both the COMLEX and the USMLE... about twice as much as I had to pay... and it's expensive. It can be a big deal for those with financial issues.

Right, it's double. But that is what student loan money is for. I had absolutely no qualms about writing that check. If money had been tight, I'd have applied for an emergency loan to cover it, or borrowed from family, etc.

I knew I would have to play by these rules when I accepted the offer to attend an osteopathic school. It has been completely worth it for me and I wouldn't change a thing about where or how I have trained to this point. I think I am getting the best of both worlds: a very strong osteopathic education and a very strong ACGME residency.

 

[mohelgamal]

It is legal for any residency to take comlex instead of usmle. but they don't have to. If they decide they don't want DOs no body can stop them. the truth is that the PD can refuse to meet anyone without having to explain why. I have found by chance that programs that rejected me invited some people who are less qualified. why I don't know. This system is unfair and allow Bias. in fact if the PD decided not to invite you because of your race or religion and no bosy can stop them

 

[Terpskins99]

can graduates of allopathic schools go to DO residencies? And would they take the USMLE if that was the case?

The answer to the first question is no, btw.

 

[mig26x]

The answer to the first question is no, btw.

So they have it easier? LOL.

 

[Tired]

I think it's interesting that this discussion kind of presupposes that USMLE and COMLEX are equivalent. I'm in an allopathic program so I don't know, but some of the folks I've met from the DO schools tell me that COMLEX and USMLE are actually very different.

I have been told that COMLEX is very heavy on Primary Care and Preventative Medicine topics, whereas USMLE incorporates much more surgical subspecialty and basic science questions. For the DO's who have taken both, what is your experience with this? Did you have to alter your study strategies when you took the USMLEs?

 

[Terpskins99]

I think it's interesting that this discussion kind of presupposes that USMLE and COMLEX are equivalent. I'm in an allopathic program so I don't know, but some of the folks I've met from the DO schools tell me that COMLEX and USMLE are actually very different.

I have been told that COMLEX is very heavy on Primary Care and Preventative Medicine topics, whereas USMLE incorporates much more surgical subspecialty and basic science questions. For the DO's who have taken both, what is your experience with this? Did you have to alter your study strategies when you took the USMLEs?

Haven't taken either yet, but am preparing for both for this coming spring.

As I understand it, COMLEX questions tend to have a higher frequency of clinical situation questions (not to mention are a little more straight forward) and places less emphasis on biochemistry. In terms of preparation, everything is the same except we need to prepare for questions specifically concerning osteopathic manipulative therapy/treatment.

USMLE doesn't go into surgical (or any other) subspecialty. The closest you'll get are clinical questions whose answers are based upon knowledge of gross anatomy. Both exams only (haha, as if that were easy) require understanding and clinical application of basic sciences.

 

[Hernandez]

I have been told that COMLEX is very heavy on Primary Care and Preventative Medicine topics, whereas USMLE incorporates much more surgical subspecialty and basic science questions. For the DO's who have taken both, what is your experience with this? Did you have to alter your study strategies when you took the USMLEs?

USMLE is a much better test, more so because the questions are much better worded. COMLEX does cover more bugs/drugs, bull crap OMM questions and clinical problems, while USMLE covers more biochem/stats/genetics. I have qualms about COMLEX, but I can't argue with the numbers as I made almost the exact same thing on both.

 

[im do 08]

For the DO's who have taken both, what is your experience with this? Did you have to alter your study strategies when you took the USMLEs?

I myself studied mainly for the USMLE and then studied OMM on the side. I agree with Hernandez in that the USMLE is a better worded exam. Other differences for those that are really curious and that I found are as follows:

COMLEX has more straight forward questions, and you may get the same question over and over in different sections. In addition, COMLEX has question sets that all belong to the same case presentation as well as matching for a series of questions.

USMLE is a more difficult exam, with two and three step questions (such as what is the treatment if patient presents with this? or if patient has this, what are the most common adverse effects of the doc) while the COMLEX questions were at the most two step.

 

[im do 08]

I still don't understand why people who plan on applying to ACGME programs go to an osteopathic (DO) school?

I agree 100% with RuralMedicine, but there's also different case scenarios, like students trying to get into specialties where there are almost no DO equivalents (neurosurg comes to mind), or students trying to get into specialties where they will be close to home or with people that they know.

The point is, being a DO offers the possibility of pursuing a residence in either allopathic or osteopathic fields, and depending on which one will work best for the student, he or she may make whichever decision best suits them. Regardless of what training they receive, they'll still be DOs once their training is done. Hope this clarifies things.

 

[gutonc]

I agree 100% with RuralMedicine, but there's also different case scenarios, like students trying to get into specialties where there are almost no DO equivalents (neurosurg comes to mind), or students trying to get into specialties where they will be close to home or with people that they know.

Just being a smart4ss here but, thank FSM there are no DO neurosurg programs. The last thing I'd want while my skull is cracked and in a halo is somebody doing OMM on me! Imagine a smiley here...I hate that crap.

 

[dctrgreen]

Just being a smart4ss here but, thank FSM there are no DO neurosurg programs. The last thing I'd want while my skull is cracked and in a halo is somebody doing OMM on me! Imagine a smiley here...I hate that crap.

before you make idiotic comments such as the one above, you should do your homework. there are DO neurosurgery programs. PCOM has one, there is a new one in Roanoke, VA, and there are several more.

you are showing considerable ignorance posting comments like this when you don't know what you are even talking about.👎 👎

 

[tkim]

11 NS programs:

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...1E0BB9735CA3F&jsessionid=30308932505613727780

 

[Doowai]

I don't know anything about the Comlex, but did the USMLE.

This is one of the drawbacks to having a "credential society" - where the paper means more than the talent. My oldest brother is a tremendous specialty surgeon - but he could not come to this state tomorrow and do surgery because he is not certified/licensed here - lacks the piece of paper, not the skill.

Residencies should draw on those with the skill, not the paper. However the tests are supposed to be a way to assess the skill. Tough situation to be in - but I personally think part of the answer lies in the clinical years of med school. There should be some sort of talent test of specialties - if you are interested in surgery you have to be able to take all the plastic bones out of the guy in the game OPERATION or something. But somehow talent should rate higher than paper.

The USMLE's definately tested your ability to reason through 2 or 3 layers - you have someone who has cancer or an autoimmune disease and presents with hematuria...what do you do. You have to first reason they are on cyclophosphamide which resulted in the hematuria and then prescribe mesna...or things to that effect. Its certainly not fill in the blank type of test. I don't know what COMLEX is like.

 

[DO_2007]

I still don't understand why people who plan on applying to ACGME programs go to an osteopathic (DO) school?

It's so simple. My buddy finished Carib. school, I finished a DO school. He took the USMLE and got a very decent scores, I took COMLEX and did ok. We applied to the same speciality (NEURO). I matched in my #1 (top 30 ACGME programs) he ends up unmatched and had to scramble with no luck so far. GO FIGURE!!!!!!

 

[RajMahal]

comlex and USMLE are not equal. in my opinion, the USMLE focused on a lot of nit-picky basic science that nobody will ever use in clinical practice. It is solely there to make you miserable. Things like which chromosome certain genes are located on, cellular mechanisms, etc. COMLEX was a much more clinically based test. I took both steps of both tests, and found that both were challenging in their own ways. I did better on USMLE step 1 than comlex, but i did better on comlex step 2 than usmle. incidentally, i took both steps of USMLE (as a DO) because i was planning on applying to allopathic residency for a number of reasons. #1 there is no couples' match in the AOA match. #2 i felt that allopathic general surgery programs offer some opportunities that osteopathic programs do not. I matched into my first choice for general surgery, and they required both steps of usmle for applicants.

I have been told that COMLEX is very heavy on Primary Care and Preventative Medicine topics, whereas USMLE incorporates much more surgical subspecialty and basic science questions. For the DO's who have taken both, what is your experience with this? Did you have to alter your study strategies when you took the USMLEs?[/QUOTE]