COMLEX, USMLE, or both?

[SkiMonkey]

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I had a quick question about the stats that DO schools give regarding their board pass rates. Are these percentages only the pass rates for the COMLEX, or do they factor in those students who took the USMLE boards as well? If not, doe anyone know where I could find the USMLE pass rates for DMU, CCOM, and KCOM? Thanks, and I'm sorry if this has been asked already.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Osteopathic schools will only disclose pass rates for the COMLEX, if even that. They will not disclose USMLE pass rates because the USMLE is not a required exam for licensure, nor do most encourage their students to take it.

That said, I took USMLE step I and II and passed both, quite comfortably.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

USMLE is going to be optional at a DO school. Most schools will probably only be listing their COMLEX scores.

The only pass rate you need to worry about is your own.

 

[jzeidenb]

the USMLE scores tend to curve similarly with the COMLEX, if a school has a high comlex, im sure thes tudents who took the usmle as well scored high

 

[JadinSleeper]

Most DO schools will not list a USMLE pass rate. In fact, I'd be surprised if any did.

This is mainly because not all students will take it (and it could be argued that the group of USMLE-takers would self-select to be a stronger cohort of students than the class at large). Also, DO schools do not teach to the USMLE. They teach to the COMLEX - hence the hours and hours spent (wasted?) in the OMM lab.

I know plenty of people in my class who did great on the COMLEX, only to fail or barely pass the USMLE. I would only take the USMLE if you know you can rock it. If you fail or just barely pass, what have you shown to MD programs? That you are barely adequate?

 

[SkiMonkey]

Thanks for the quick answers guys. I had just heard that many DO students still take the USMLE alongside the COMLEX and wanted to know if the pass rates were similar or significantly different in any way.

 

[gasapple]

Osteopathic schools will only disclose pass rates for the COMLEX, if even that. They will not disclose USMLE pass rates because the USMLE is not a required exam for licensure, nor do most encourage their students to take it.

That said, I took USMLE step I and II and passed both, quite comfortably.

BTW - Congrats on your Step I & II accomplishment! So, just to reiterate, you chose to take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX due to the fact that you are/were applying to a specific allopathic residency - or was it dual-accredited and required the USMLE? I'm curious because I'd always figured I'd prepare and take the USMLE regardless of my residency options. Should I only consider the USMLE it if it's a requirement for a particular residency?

 

[AHillock]

A orthopedic resident spoke to our class and he did the USMLE/COMLEX. He said it as a waste of time/money and wish he only took the COMLEX. Now that COMLEX is better known many programs are accepting it and know how to compare it to the USMLE. He also said that if the program you want to go to wont take the COMLEX, you probably wouldn't want to go there anyways (they probably wont be to receptive of a DO). So unless you want to go into some uber competitive, just take the COMLEX. Also if it is super competitive, you might have a better shot of doing a DO residency in that specialty. Remember that MDs will have first dibs on the ACGME programs (especially in the really competitive fields). Just look at ACGME residencies like derm, neurosurgery, ortho, radiation oncology...etc. Most of them are for the most part MD only, with maybe a DO squeezing in here or there. I plan on supporting our profession and going to a DO/dual program if possible. Remember our programs that go unfilled will loose their government funding and their spots eventually. Wait for the next 4-5 yrs with a large increase in MD and DO schools/graduates. Spots in the MD world will start becoming scarce for us unless we start opening up more programs. And that won't happen unless we present the need/demand for them. Just some thoughts I had while eating lunch. Now back to studying.

PS. After reading my post I realized that I might be coming across as trying to scare people. I'm not. I just wanted to share some advise that might be helpful to some of you. If not, just disregard it.

 

[Beau Geste]

I plan to take both.

 

[scpod]

... Now that COMLEX is better known many programs are accepting it and know how to compare it to the USMLE. ...So unless you want to go into some uber competitive, just take the COMLEX....

The problem is that even though a lot of programs accept COMLEX, they have no idea how to compare the two. Case in point: The IM residency at University of Florida requires a 600 COMLEX just to interview. Yes, an IM program wants a 600 JUST TO INTERVIEW! The COMLEX average is a 500. So...you have to be way above average just for their IM program. If you really want to do an allopathic program, you really need to contact them individually about their standards BEFORE you decide not to take the USMLE.

 

[PatriotsForever]

TCOM encourages their students to take the USMLE and I am sure that all, or nearly all their students passed it!

 

[go lakers]

COMP students do very well on the COMLEX (3rd highest pass rate?) but pretty poorly on USMLE. obviously, the curriculum and how it is developed has plenty to do with this.

 

[gclax30]

I decided early on that I would take both because I really had no idea which programs I would be applying to, MD or DO, and wanted to keep my options open. I'm glad I took both USMLE steps because as I just found out a few months ago there are absolutely *ZERO* AOA pathology programs in the country (yup, not a single darn one and yet they still want us to do the pointless rotating internship!). Though most programs will consider a DO applicant and their COMLEX results I feel much better knowing I'm on the same playing field as the rest of the MD applicant pool.

The major concern of course is that most DO schools do not teach for the USMLE, and trust me they are two completely different animals. So if you decide to take it, make time early on to study all those subjects that the COMLEX writers don't feel are very important to your medical education like behavioral medicine, epidemiology, biochemistry, cell biology... you know those trivial little subjects. 😉

 

[PistolPete]

Wait, biochemistry and cell biology are NOT included in the COMLEX? What?! Isn't this the bread and butter of a fundamental scientific education, at least in the first year? I could understand behavioral medicine and epidemiology not being included, but biochem or cell bio? What's included in place of these then?

 

[sparhawksd]

The DO I shadowed took and passed both while at Western/COMP. He said, looking back on the experience that it was unnecessary to take both.

I suppose if you want to take both, go ahead, but you will have to pay separate fees.

 

[VALSALVA]

I took the COMLEX only and got plenty of interviews last year. I matched to my first choice in Allopathic Emergency Medicine - a pretty competitive field last year.

I can see why it might be advantageous for some DO students to take both exams - especially if other parts of their application aren't sparkling. Having good USMLE scores might make up for average pre-clinical grades or what not. For that reason, I would hesitate to make a blanket statement about whether DO students should or should not take the USMLE. It's a case by case issue.

 

[Beau Geste]

Is there a chart or list somewhere of allo programs that accept the COMLEX? Or do you just have to call when it gets to be that time to the programs you're interested in to find out?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

the USMLE scores tend to curve similarly with the COMLEX, if a school has a high comlex, im sure thes tudents who took the usmle as well scored high

What information or source are you basing this on?

I didn't do nearly as well on the USMLE (Step I at least) as I did on part one of the COMLEX. The two classmates that I took it with that day both failed while they passed COMLEX comfortably.

Others may do about the same, but I seriously doubt the curves are simialar.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

A orthopedic resident spoke to our class and he did the USMLE/COMLEX. He said it as a waste of time/money and wish he only took the COMLEX. Now that COMLEX is better known many programs are accepting it and know how to compare it to the USMLE. He also said that if the program you want to go to wont take the COMLEX, you probably wouldn't want to go there anyways (they probably wont be to receptive of a DO).

Obviously this guy is not in an ACGME program.

It is important to get as much information as you can but you need to make up your mind about what you perceive to be reality and what is best for you. My program REALLY likes to see USMLE from DO applicants. And no, they don't treat us any differently from anyone else. That same old party line is pure BS.

I took USMLE I/II and many program directors said it was the best decision I could have made.

This subject has been discussed ad nauseum as it is. Plenty of old threds if you do a search.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Wait, biochemistry and cell biology are NOT included in the COMLEX? What?! Isn't this the bread and butter of a fundamental scientific education, at least in the first year? I could understand behavioral medicine and epidemiology not being included, but biochem or cell bio? What's included in place of these then?

OMM🙄

Neither of these topics at all were on my exam.

 

[PistolPete]

So why is biochem even taught to osteopathic medical students if there is none of it on the COMLEX? I would think that they should include at least a little on the boards, but hey, maybe it's not that important.

And why do you think that your friends failed the USMLE Step 1 while comfortably passing COMLEX? Do osteopathic medical schools really have such different curricula from other allopathic schools? I was under the impression that other than OMM, there isn't much difference between courses taught Years 1 and 2.

OMM🙄

Neither of these topics at all were on my exam.

 

[JadinSleeper]

So why is biochem even taught to osteopathic medical students if there is none of it on the COMLEX? I would think that they should include at least a little on the boards, but hey, maybe it's not that important.

And why do you think that your friends failed the USMLE Step 1 while comfortably passing COMLEX? Do osteopathic medical schools really have such different curricula from other allopathic schools? I was under the impression that other than OMM, there isn't much difference between courses taught Years 1 and 2.

It's kind of a cliche among DO students to say that there "is no biochem on the COMLEX". It's just that traditionally, biochem has been a low-yield subject to study for on COMLEX 1 as compared to other subjects like microbiology (a perennial favorite) or pharmacology. Some would say the COMLEX has a more clinical focus, while the USMLE has a more academic focus. The NBOME would be well within it's rights to have 50 biochem questions on the COMLEX 1, but historically, that has not been the field they tend to focus on. Thus, many DO students will concentrate on the higher-yield subjects in the limited amount of time they have to spend preparing for Step 1.
Now, it could be argued that the curriculum of pre-clinical osteopathic medical schools have a less intense biochem and biostats course than the average allopathic school. I can't speak authoritatively about that, since I'm not on any curriculum committees, and I've only taken biochem at one DO school. But I've certainly heard that claim made many, many times.

Now, why do many DO students fail USMLE? There are many reasons. Some don't put enough effort into studying, thinking that their COMLEX prep is sufficient. It's not. They are two different animals. And again, a DO school's primary obligation is to prepare you for the COMLEX. Some take the USMLE 'just to see how I do' (a horrible reason).

 

[Terpskins99]

Just an FYI, but I had about 15 biochem questions on my comlex.

Its a mixed bag, folks.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Just an FYI, but I had about 15 biochem questions on my comlex.

Its a mixed bag, folks.

I took it a few years ago so it sounds like things have changed a bit.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

And why do you think that your friends failed the USMLE Step 1 while comfortably passing COMLEX? Do osteopathic medical schools really have such different curricula from other allopathic schools? I was under the impression that other than OMM, there isn't much difference between courses taught Years 1 and 2.

I can't really tell you because I don't know. I think that they were taking it "just to see how they would do" which isn't a really good reason, as mentioned by a previous poster. One was a good student, the other kind of mediocre just so far as grades and stuff went. Funny thing is that both ended up with allopathic residencies and competitive fellowships. They only reported COMLEX scores when it came time to submit ERAS.

I really only know of two other people in my class that took USMLE Step I. Both were very smart. One near the top of the class scored 240+ and the other (top of the class I think) likely scored even higher than that.

 

[Babe327]

I recently received my passing score for the COMLEX step 2 but it was pretty crappy...I had a dumb test with alot of OMM BS I had never heard of before. I think I was well-prepared for a normal test in that I used Crush and did USMLEWORLD and did pretty well...I'm wondering if I should take the USMLE step 2 just in case the programs I applied to for residency think my comlex step 2 is not so good? Any suggestions?

 

[Jpc984]

I recently received my passing score for the COMLEX step 2 but it was pretty crappy...I had a dumb test with alot of OMM BS I had never heard of before. I think I was well-prepared for a normal test in that I used Crush and did USMLEWORLD and did pretty well...I'm wondering if I should take the USMLE step 2 just in case the programs I applied to for residency think my comlex step 2 is not so good? Any suggestions?

I would suggest going to the Osteopathic thread. We are mostly premeds here.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=14

or/and the USMLE/ COMLEX thread...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=189

 

[Phallacious]

IF i can let you in on a little secret, some of us took the USMLE because we have a chip on our shoulder about not getting into an MD school and wanted to prove to ourselves that the selection committee at those schoold phucked up.

I took both Step 1 and Level 1 and did well on both and plan on taking both Level 2 and STep 2 in June.

It is more a pride thing rather than a residency thing.

of course if you are prideful in this way, make sure to study your ass off for Step 1. Don't wing it.

 

[novado]

If you want a shot at any competitive specialty or an excellent location in a less competitive specialty, you better take the USMLE. I matched into a very competitive specialty which would not have been possible without the USMLE. Others with higher COMLEX scores, but did not take the USMLE could not even get interview offers at the places I got interviews at. Many of the people you get info from on this forum are medical students. I am a current resident, who occasionally checks in and posts. Open more doors for yourself, take the USMLE.

 

[Eudjinn]

so if one is going for something like family medicine, there is no need to take the usmle since that is a less competitive residency to match into? the comlex should technically suffice for that.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Probably, but not all residency programs are equal. If there is an allo one you really like, it may be in your best interest to take USMLE.

 

[Instatewaiter]

so if one is going for something like family medicine, there is no need to take the usmle since that is a less competitive residency to match into? the comlex should technically suffice for that.

Probably, but not all residency programs are equal. If there is an allo one you really like, it may be in your best interest to take USMLE.

I agree with texas, COMLEX will probably suffice for FM. In all honesty though, very few people who go into medical school with a field in mind end up pursuing that field. Most people figure it all out after 3rd year, which I expect would be after you take step 1/level 1. It might be easier to expect to take step 1 so that if/when you change your mind 3rd or 4th year you wont have to take step 1 then.

 

[gclax30]

I recently received my passing score for the COMLEX step 2 but it was pretty crappy...I had a dumb test with alot of OMM BS I had never heard of before. I think I was well-prepared for a normal test in that I used Crush and did USMLEWORLD and did pretty well...I'm wondering if I should take the USMLE step 2 just in case the programs I applied to for residency think my comlex step 2 is not so good? Any suggestions?

I think it depends, did you take USMLE step 1? If so then I would take step 2 also. I was in a similar situation as you, my COMLEX level 2 was the sorriest excuse for a medical exam I've ever seen written and my score reflected it. Yet my USMLE two days later was great so who knows. I say if in doubt, take it.