Comlex vs. USMLE

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mjws

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I am a soon to be 4th yr osteopathic medical student. I am thinking about Emergency Medicine as a career. My Comlex Board Scores are in the 80th percentile and my USMLE Step 1 are in the 50th (212). I am planning to participate in the ACGME match. Is it better to submit just my comlex scores or is it better to submit both? Is it detrimental to have the percentile difference in my scores? any advice would be greatly appreciated?
Thank you!
 
I did not take the USMLE, just the COMLEX. I scored 93%ile on it, and got plenty of interviews (20 or so out of 40+).

I know a DO student at Touro, who scored 99% on COMLEX and did "similarly" as well on the USMLE. She got practically all her applications back with interviews. But we both matched at our #1 (she matched outside the match), so we're both happy.

80% or so is good, probably good enough. It all depends on where your dream residency is. If you don't care and just want to match anywhere, you're fine with just COMLEX.
Q
 
I was in a similar situation. 89% on COMLEX, 215 on USMLE. I went to an ACEP conference and asked about 15 PDs whether I should take step 2, and whether I should even submit my USMLE. All but one said don't worry about step 2, to submit USMLE, and that 215 was fine. It just so happens that, at the time, that one program was the one that I was most interested in (3 year California program). I ended up taking step 2 and did alot better: 241. HOWEVER, I still did not even get an interview at that, or any other 3 yr. California program.

It seems to me, then, that the programs that don't accept the COMLEX may have a bias against DOs anyway.

Having said that, there were several interviewers that said that it was a good idea that I took the USMLE so that they could compare "apples with apples". You may want to consider taking step 2 anyway, especially if you are more interested in competitive programs. (See my other post for preparing for step 2; EM is great preparation).

I totally agree with Quinn, though: with 80% on the COMLEX, you should match SOMEWHERE.

good luck
 
I applied to ACGME programs with only COMLEX steps I and II and did fine. My only note to add here is that during my interviews with PDs I would mention that I am an osteopathic applicant, and did they have any questions about interperting the COMLEX score. The ERAS transmittal of your COMLEX score does not include your percentile, and this is a somewhat subtle way to discuss a decent score and to provide them with information they can use to compare you to ACGME applicants. Bring your score reports to interviews, and if you feel it is appropriate you can offer copies. My 2 centavos.
 
Originally posted by Chris_Topher
I applied to ACGME programs with only COMLEX steps I and II and did fine. My only note to add here is that during my interviews with PDs I would mention that I am an osteopathic applicant, and did they have any questions about interperting the COMLEX score. The ERAS transmittal of your COMLEX score does not include your percentile, and this is a somewhat subtle way to discuss a decent score and to provide them with information they can use to compare you to ACGME applicants. Bring your score reports to interviews, and if you feel it is appropriate you can offer copies. My 2 centavos.

Wow. Great advice! Wish I had known that before I interviewed... I would definately do that (especially if I scored above 80%ile on the COMLEX). Damn.

I did not take Step 2 in time for interviews (took the January test), but had i scored well on that I would have made sure it was known, as the scores probably didnt' get back on teh August test until after most interviews were given out.

Chris, where did you match again? If you dont' want to post it, PM me. Just curious.
Q
 
Southeasterner also - Medical College of Georgia - psyched (I am sure we will all have to remind ourselves of that during our intern year). Seems like a great program - almost a secret, with aeromedical responsibility, tactical and event medicine, U/S, international experience.

MJWS - Check an EM thread called How Low Did you Go? (60-90 days ago) to see how osteo and allo med students matched and with what credentials/board scores/grades/daddies. It is a long one and gives a good picture. If you fall well behind in one area, it might help to have the USMLE on your side, and if you are a strong, well rounded osteo applicant and are not looking for a ultra-competitive program, you should do fine w/o USMLE. Most are pretty familiar with the COMLEX at this point.

Quinn - was wondering, have you done an AOA internship, or can you get a training license in FL w/o, or are you going to apply under Article 47 or whatever that special provision is? I am going without, may apply if I get off of my ass. I have put a lot of time in with the AOA, and if they leave me high and dry I could see myself doing the same to them.
 
Chris-

Am not going to do the AOA internship. Since I go to NSUCOM, the issue is near and dear to a lot of people in my class. One of my fellow classmates said that in FL here, they are making the requirements for internship even less, that it just has to have two months of IM, one of OB/GYN, and one of EM. Obviously any EM residency will fulfill this.

But its not on the AOA website.

I am still going to try for it anyways. Not sure if I can moonlight at my residency, but it might give me an option. Plus I'd like to have a license.

One of the psychiatrists at USF who is a DO told me that he "knew off the top of my head 5 people at USF who got the internship waived." I think for EM it will be even easier for me (and you), as the nearest DO EM residency is in Miami.

Q
 
I am researching programs in the SE US that accept DOs, including MCG, USF, Jacksonville and the Palmetto Program in SC. Any info that anyone could provide would be great.

thanks!!
 
Dork. Based on my interview with Palmetto, I was impressed with the professionalism, benefits, plus it is in a pretty cool mid-sized city.

1. A solid academic program. EMS was maybe so-so (based on occassionally faulty memory). Struck me as pretty competitive and desirable to people in the area. Good hospital, which I worked in for 2 years. I would have enthusiastically returned to work there.

2. The benefits that I speak of included free unlimited food at the cafeteria, and a residents lounge with some weights and aerobic equipment, and 2 fridges and cabinets stocked with food by the hospital. Good looking library.

3. I lived in Columbia for 2 years during grad school, and in hindsight it was a pretty fun college town with good restaurants and night-life plus decent mountain biking within 20min drive. Beach or mountains within a 2 hour drive. Good people all around, with a few of the requisite red-necks you see everywhere in the SE. I asked my friend last week and she said that we complained a little when we lived there, but now living in MI I can't wait to return to the SE.

4. Nothing bad to recall.
 
Originally posted by DOrk
I am researching programs in the SE US that accept DOs, including MCG, USF, Jacksonville and the Palmetto Program in SC. Any info that anyone could provide would be great.

thanks!!

I got offered an interview at MCG, but turned it down. Don't know much about the program.

I will be at USF starting next month. One of the big big positives about it that I really liked was the cornucopia of patients that you see. TGH is in a nice part and yet a bad part of town. You'll see the common indigent patients, but also the white collar, blue collar, CEOs, businessmen, suburbanites, yuppies, everything. That's the biggest attraction to me. At two residency programs where I did electives, I saw almost 100% urban, indigent patients with no insurance, and the CC were very similar.

UF is a great program as well, tons and tons of patients, very busy ED... relatively resident-run. 3 year program, well known, well respected. I ranked them #3 (i think, or #4).

Check out scutwork.com too
Q
 
Maybe I was with a bad resident, but my MCG experience in the Dept was what turned me off...

A senior with a job lined up mentioned to me that he didn't think they did enough procedures and had probably done less than 10 chest tubes in his entire life. The dept seemed to be pretty slow (maybe 45K if I recall?) and they said it was not unusual--one senior was at triage writing orders like someplaces have nurses do...urine pregs etc, obvious stuff that will speed things along. Further...he let a Chest Pain sit in the room 20 min so he could talk to me and some first year med student....


On a good note, they're always looking to develop a new niche (know what one you're interested in, because they'll ask you a hundred times at your interview!) Quite progressive in that respect and the residents seem genuinely happy (and can make a pretty penny renting out their houses for MASTERS week!)
 
To the OP or anyone else:

I am taking both the COMLEX and USMLE next month, and am trying to find out more about the differences between the two exams.

To what do you attribute the disparity in your scores? Did you think that the USMLE was much more difficult, or was the subject emphasis different?

Thanks
 
i've heard conflicting stories of pd's not understanding how to interpret comlex scores. i was planning on only taking the comlex but now i'm thinking that maybe i should take the usmle so that they have some sort of common ground. definately willing to hear anyone's advice or insight.

johnthestreak
 
hey quinn or anyone who would know!!

Are you going to be able to moonlight in Florida, even though you are a DO who did not do the internship year? I will be in St. Petersburg for my clinical rotations and am also looking at USF and some other programs in the Southeast. Any info would be great!!
 
Depends which residency you go to. I'm nto sure about USF and their moonlighting policy. Its pretty program dependent. As for UF, they do allow moonlighting (even as an intern, but that's less clinical, and more rape-crisis counseling) that doesn't involve a license. Dunno about Orlando.

Q
 
Originally posted by johnthestreak
i've heard conflicting stories of pd's not understanding how to interpret comlex scores. i was planning on only taking the comlex but now i'm thinking that maybe i should take the usmle so that they have some sort of common ground. definately willing to hear anyone's advice or insight.

johnthestreak

I took only COMLEX... did very well (but didnt' know it until two months later). DIdn't feel like studying for the USMLE, nor taking it, nor paying for it. Somewhere on the www.saem.org website is a thread about comlex vs. usmle. Read it.

My opinion is to not take the USMLE. Read Chris-Topher's post, it will be great advice for your application if you do not do the usmle.
Q
 
Quinn,

Nice to see you- Not surprised, however, considering your willingness to answer questions about your allopathically enriched experience. Like I said before, congrats and best of luck w/the charter class. It is really refreshing to read these threads. I realize my "two centavos" are not worth less than half of a US cent, but here goes:

I recently returned from the SAEM conference in Jacksonville. I'd consider Jax one of the more competitive programs in EM. They receive over 700 apps for about 15 slots. I spoke to the PD's at University of Florida as well as the other 14 or so MDs in attendance who managed programs throughout the southeast. Their message was resoundingly clear.

It seemed to me that e-med physicians are interested in recruiting, predictably, good e-med physicians. Most all placed less of an emphasis on board scores than the interveiw process. All were familiar with COMLEX and welcomed submission of step one scores via ERAS. They key to success, it seemed, was found in the emergency medicine student elective. The PD's would be less likely to accept a candidate who did not make a point to schedule a rotation at their facility (or with one of their brother or sister program directors). They found little empathy for students who did not knock down the door of their office and proclaim, "I'm here rotating at your ER and I'm hoping to secure a letter of recommendation!" I was so encouraged by the PDs in attendance at the recent conference that I've decided to abandon the USMLE/COMLEX debate for now. Kelly O'Keefe, who Quinn knows well, went so far as to say that he "expected" to see NSUCOM students rotate at his ER in Tampa General.

With regard to that internship (my source of recurrent GERD/heartburn/consternation), the AOA has posted the new requirements to their website. It seems that three years of ACGME training inclusive of 1 month of outpatient FP, 2 months of IM, and one month of OB would substitute for the completion of an osteopathic internship. Of course, the Fl. board of osteopathic medicine gives no guarantees. When I asked Dr. O'Keefe how his DO residents would meet any additional requirements, he smiled and said that the solution to this problem, "was called vacation." LOL! Seems that there are plenty of DO students like Quinn who embrace the allopathic programs just as they have embraced our DO graduates-- with open arms. Again, best wishes for the upcoming PGY-I internship (Whoops- I meant residency) year. Keep the informative emails coming, I like to benefit from your experiences so that I won't have to work as hard.

Yours,
pushinepi2
NSUCOM Class of 2005
http://nsucomems.tripod.com
 
Pushinepi makes a good point. Read his point again.

To say that board scores aren't important is an oversight. Of course good board scores will help you get an interview. But I know lots of people (MD and DO) who had less than stellar board scores and did mediocre 3rd and 4th year, who got into MD EM residencies.

Write a decent PS.
Get decent LORs.
Apply to a decent # of residencies (more if you're DO or average/subpar applicant)
Give a decent interview.
Match at a decent place.

Q, DO (woah, just thought of that signoff)
 
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