Comment on my Plan for College?

[jpdaman11]

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Hello Student Doctor Network users,

I am new to the network, so I apolgize in advance for any problems I create through this post. Either way, I was wondering if I could receive some assistance in my plan to achieving my goal of attending the University of Michigan's Medical School. It has been my dream since I was a child and I do have the determination to do anything possible to attend the medical school. That means I will spend countless hours studying, if that's what it takes. I understand how difficult it is to get into the University of Michigan's Medical School, so if you only comment on how difficult it will be, just know that I understand the reality of how hard it will be. Anyways, I will be attending the school for my undergraduate education, so I have researched some things to create a plan for my undergraduate studies. I, however, cannot find many mentors who can assist me in my journey. Therefore, I researched what other applicants had, and created this plan. For those of you who read my plan, please comment on it. My plan is difficult and it's easier said than done, but I will do whatever it takes to become a doctor. I want to help people, it's my dream, and I will not die without achieving my goal. I'm motivated to do whatever possible, so remember that. Any constructive criticism is more than welcome. Thank you for bearing with this post. Here's some basic information on myself.


Senior Year -
Finish with GPA above 3.9
ACT: 31
Great EC's, blah blah, what you expect from a typical high school student entering premed at a top school

Here's my plan laid out now:

This summer -
Volunteer 1,000 hours at the local hospital
Shadow as many doctors as possible
Work as a pharmacy technician
Start CARS MCAT review
Prepare for College

I would like to graduate in 3 and a half years, so I'll most likely take a semester's worth of courses each summer. After my prerequisites, I will study for the MCAT for 3-4 months straight (taking one summer off of my extra courses to study). I would like to score 36+. I would like to also keep my GPA above a 3.8. I know this is so easy to say, but I will take however long I need to in order to achieve this, even if it means not graduating in 3 and a half years.

What I already have -
Research at a University of Michigan Genetics lab, which I conducted my summer of junior year with a great connection to the lab manager
I'm a certified nursing assistant, which helps with my clinical experience for Med School.

Besides this, what I would like to do -
Learn my EMT basics for more clinical experience for medical school.
Conduct more research in a lab and in a clinical setting.
Get close to the dean of my college.
Get close to someone who has watched me in a clinical setting.
Get my LOC from my hospital volunteer coordinator, who I'm very close to.
I would like to apply to medical school in June after my junior year.

Besides this, what else can I do? Any comments on anything I shouldn't do and why? Remember, I know what I am getting myself into. Thank you so much for your time and comments.

 

[efle]

Gonna volunteer 83 hours/week all summer while also shadowing and working as pharma tech
Gonna start MCAT studying before entering college
Gonna cozy up to your university dean

:troll:

 

[midweststudent1]

This has to be a troll

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Volunteering and shadowing sounds good, but I don't see the point in starting any sort of MCAT review yet. Also, what are you planning to do to "prepare" for college?

Look into the UROP program in order to get involved in research early on and/or keep up your work in the genetics lab. Build some connections during your time in school. A 36 equivalent is certainly achievable with a good solid chunk of studying... but again, ... there's no reason to start that until you're getting closer to test-time.

1)What are you going to do with an EMT certification? Not worth it just to rack up qualifications.
2) Yeah. Research is good.
3) lol. Dean of what? LS&A? Don't think so.
4) Yeah, sure, like I said, build connections.

Anyhow, best of luck.

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

Can't tell if bad case of neuroticism or troll.

 

[jpdaman11]

Sorry, I meant completing the 1,000 hours from the hours I already have. I'm not a troll lol, I'm really trying to do this. I see how hard it is to get into medical school, so I'm anxious and want to make sure I'm doing what I can to solidify my chances. Sorry for any issues with this.

 

[jpdaman11]

So I should hold up on CARS? I figured it would be better to study since I don't have the prerequisite requirements. For the dean comment, I saw that it was amazing to have a recommendation from the dean.

 

[jpdaman11]

I thought I saw that being a CNA or an EMT would help the clinical experience needed before entering medical school. Things like bedside manner and how to socialize with patients.

 

[jpdaman11]

I'm kind of embarrassed now that everyone thinks I'm trolling. If you would like to verify that I'm not a troll, I have a CollegeConfidential account that I've used for getting into college. It just doesn't have enough resources like studentdoctor.net does. A medical school related question gets, on average, one reply.

 

[jpdaman11]

Volunteering and shadowing sounds good, but I don't see the point in starting any sort of MCAT review yet. Also, what are you planning to do to "prepare" for college?

Look into the UROP program in order to get involved in research early on and/or keep up your work in the genetics lab. Build some connections during your time in school. A 36 equivalent is certainly achievable with a good solid chunk of studying... but again, ... there's no reason to start that until you're getting closer to test-time.

1)What are you going to do with an EMT certification? Not worth it just to rack up qualifications.
2) Yeah. Research is good.
3) lol. Dean of what? LS&A? Don't think so.
4) Yeah, sure, like I said, build connections.

Anyhow, best of luck.

Thank you for the help. Do you think the genetic research would be better, or the clinical research? Do many students get opportunities for this?

 

[jpdaman11]

Can't tell if bad case of neuroticism or troll.

Not a troll lol. Sorry.

 

[jpdaman11]

Gonna volunteer 83 hours/week all summer while also shadowing and working as pharma tech
Gonna start MCAT studying before entering college
Gonna cozy up to your university dean

:troll:

I didn't specify that detail, but I did in the new comments. Sorry lol, I'm not a troll though, I know what that is, but I'm just trying to get some help with this.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Thank you for the help. Do you think the genetic research would be better, or the clinical research? Do many students get opportunities for this?

Honestly, I'm not sure what CARS is. Regardless, don't start structured studying for the MCAT before you even start college. 🙂 Just try to handle the transition well and do the best you can in your coursework.

You will probably never meet the dean of your school, hence me thinking that was a silly comment. You'd be just as likely to get a letter from the University president. Strive for realistic faculty relationships where they are able to talk about you in a multifaceted way. Content is more important than the title of a recommender.

Yes, CNA or EMT or scribing are all good exposure, as is volunteering and shadowing. However, you certainly don't need to (nor should you waste the time to) do all of the above.

Clinical research is pretty uncommon. If you can continue the genetics project and get something concrete (posters, a manuscript) out of it, by all means continue that. If you get the feeling that your opportunities are pretty limited in that lab, look into starting a new project through UROP and branching out.

 

[efle]

I have a CollegeConfidential account.

Suddenly it all makes sense.

Try the search function, there have been many threads regarding the informal "checklist" for being a strong applicant.

A word of advice though: Do NOT get your hopes and dreams pinned on a single med school, because there is a large factor of randomness involved per university and even the very best applicants cannot expect an acceptance from a certain school.

 

[jpdaman11]

Honestly, I'm not sure what CARS is. Regardless, don't start structured studying for the MCAT before you even start college. 🙂 Just try to handle the transition well and do the best you can in your coursework.

You will probably never meet the dean of your school, hence me thinking that was a silly comment. You'd be just as likely to get a letter from the University president. Strive for realistic faculty relationships where they are able to talk about you in a multifaceted way. Content is more important than the title of a recommender.

Yes, CNA or EMT or scribing are all good exposure, as is volunteering and shadowing. However, you certainly don't need to (nor should you waste the time to) do all of the above.

Clinical research is pretty uncommon. If you can continue the genetics project and get something concrete (posters, a manuscript) out of it, by all means continue that. If you get the feeling that your opportunities are pretty limited in that lab, look into starting a new project through UROP and branching out.

Huge sigh of relief lol. CARS is the Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills section on the MCAT. I guess I can take it easy with that and wait it out. I just don't want to score low because of time. Besides that, I'm guessing I'll just stick with my CNA and Pharmacy Tech for exposure. Thanks to you, I don't need to go through EMT basics lol. So my LOC's should be with professors or faculty members who I'm close to, or have personal relationships with. I'll look into UROP and see what my genetics manager says before I start my research there. Thanks for all of the great advice! Hopefully, you won't mind if I keep in touch for advice?

 

[jpdaman11]

Suddenly it all makes sense.

Try the search function, there have been many threads regarding the informal "checklist" for being a strong applicant.

A word of advice though: Do NOT get your hopes and dreams pinned on a single med school, because there is a large factor of randomness involved per university and even the very best applicants cannot expect an acceptance from a certain school.

I'll definitely try that now, thanks. I also know about the whole acceptance thing, it's really random, kind of like what I'm facing with the Ivy League's at the moment. I know to apply to more than Michigan. Thanks for the help. Btw, does CC have some bad reputation on this site? Lol

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Huge sigh of relief lol. CARS is the Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills section on the MCAT. I guess I can take it easy with that and wait it out. I just don't want to score low because of time. Besides that, I'm guessing I'll just stick with my CNA and Pharmacy Tech for exposure. Thanks to you, I don't need to go through EMT basics lol. So my LOC's should be with professors or faculty members who I'm close to, or have personal relationships with. I'll look into UROP and see what my genetics manager says before I start my research there. Thanks for all of the great advice! Hopefully, you won't mind if I keep in touch for advice?

Mmm, so it's the replacement for the VR section. Gotcha! The best way to prepare for that right now is to get in a habit of reading short, complex articles like you might find in the New Yorker or Economist. Really, just find something that's thought-provoking yet interesting for you to read and keep it up. Scientific literature is also a good way to develop critical analysis skills, so getting started reading occasional review articles in areas of your interest also wouldn't hurt. Slowly becoming a more analytical reader during your college years is really the only way to get good at that section -- it's probably the toughest section for people to "bump up" in a few months since there's no definite content.

Yep, again, no reason to do tech + CNA + EMT. It's just too many things that are too similar. If you have that much free time, start a hobby or do something that makes you stand out. Clinical volunteering, non-clinical volunteering, and shadowing are all good to have in moderation... but a "passion" outside of medicine and/or academics is also important.

Certainly see what the lab manager thinks about UROP. Chances are that their lab is already registered as a UROP lab, so you may be able to get paid or get credits to continue working there. I'd say the majority of PIs willing to take undergrads do so through UROP (they get some perks).

Certainly feel free to let me know if you have other questions, and also take time to poke around on this site since there's lots more good information... just don't take it too seriously. 😛

 

[efle]

I also know about the whole acceptance thing, it's really random, kind of like what I'm facing with the Ivy League's at the moment.

This is what we call a humble-brag, common on CC but frowned upon here 😉. But, it was the same for me with Ivies&Co., I'd get full ride offers from one and then waitlist/reject from the next - really bizarre. A couple major pieces of advice in choosing your school in the next month or so:

1) take into account the differences in grading inflation/deflation between top schools (For example Hopkins and Princeton are deflaters while Brown and Harvard are massive inflaters). Your GPA(s) will be the most important thing (see figure Page 2) for getting interviews.

2) make sure one of your big factors is quality of campus living, as in find out from students how livable the froshie dorms are (not just the newest built ones they show you on tour), try the cafeteria food you'll be living on for years, explore some random classroom buildings and bathrooms (not kidding) to see how nice and well-maintained the place is. You can be really surprised - places I expected to be nice had cramped, paint missing off the walls, super old dorms without climate control and nasty food (looking at you Brown) which compared to some of the best dorms and food in the country (Wustl) really changed up my list of favorites.

3) if you can, sit in on some prereqs, not just the more exciting sounding small courses. Getting through the hell that is chem/bio/ochem is made a lot better or worse by the quality of the lecturers.

Btw, does CC have some bad reputation on this site? Lol

It has a bad reputation everywhere, and if you use CC on here people will think you mean Community College

just don't take it too seriously. 😛

^ Yep, cynical ruckus-starters like myself abound, don't let us get to you

 

[jpdaman11]

This is what we call a humble-brag, common on CC but frowned upon here 😉. But, it was the same for me with Ivies&Co., I'd get full ride offers from one and then waitlist/reject from the next - really bizarre. A couple major pieces of advice in choosing your school in the next month or so:

1) take into account the differences in grading inflation/deflation between top schools (For example Hopkins and Princeton are deflaters while Brown and Harvard are massive inflaters). Your GPA(s) will be the most important thing (see figure Page 2) for getting interviews.

2) make sure one of your big factors is quality of campus living, as in find out from students how livable the froshie dorms are (not just the newest built ones they show you on tour), try the cafeteria food you'll be living on for years, explore some random classroom buildings and bathrooms (not kidding) to see how nice and well-maintained the place is. You can be really surprised - places I expected to be nice had cramped, paint missing off the walls, super old dorms without climate control and nasty food (looking at you Brown) which compared to some of the best dorms and food in the country (Wustl) really changed up my list of favorites.

3) if you can, sit in on some prereqs, not just the more exciting sounding small courses. Getting through the hell that is chem/bio/ochem is made a lot better or worse by the quality of the lecturers.



It has a bad reputation everywhere, and if you use CC on here people will think you mean Community College



^ Yep, cynical ruckus-starters like myself abound, don't let us get to you

Wow, thanks for the info. I honestly wish I could call myself a humble-brag, but I only applied to Harvard and Brown, and I doubt I'm getting accepted to either if I do, I'll be sure to go visit and sit in for my prerequisites and explore everything to make sure the dorms aren't awful. I'm just not a first generation kid who battled low income and succeed, or a prodigy child who had an internship with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I probably won't get in, but we'll see. Anyways, GPA inflators and deflators? I have a lot to learn.

 

[jpdaman11]

🤣I'll stop using CC

 

[efle]

Wow, thanks for the info. I honestly wish I could call myself a humble-brag, but I only applied to Harvard and Brown, and I doubt I'm getting accepted to either if I do, I'll be sure to go visit and sit in for my prerequisites and explore everything to make sure the dorms aren't awful. I'm just not a first generation kid who battled low income and succeed, or a prodigy child who had an internship with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I probably won't get in, but we'll see. Anyways, GPA inflators and deflators? I have a lot to learn.

Yep, once you get all your acceptances and do your visits you should post asking for comments on your options, might get great insider info

 

[hmockingbird]

So I should hold up on CARS? I figured it would be better to study since I don't have the prerequisite requirements. For the dean comment, I saw that it was amazing to have a recommendation from the dean.

You don't have the pre-reqs because you will be taking them in college. There is no reason to study now.

My advice? Read up about required classes (the pre-reqs) and make sure you get those in, and also the "soft" requirements like shadowing. Then chill out and do something fun. Major in a non-science if you want, or take some random electives outside your major. Study abroad. Join clubs or intramurals. Go Greek. Volunteer with something YOU are passionate about not just something you think will look good on your med school app. If you need an "excuse" to do all of this (besides the fact that you are still a junior in HS and you will be miserable if you start killing yourself with gunning for med school now before you are even there), med schools like well-rounded applicants.

 

[jpdaman11]

You don't have the pre-reqs because you will be taking them in college. There is no reason to study now.

My advice? Read up about required classes (the pre-reqs) and make sure you get those in, and also the "soft" requirements like shadowing. Then chill out and do something fun. Major in a non-science if you want, or take some random electives outside your major. Study abroad. Join clubs or intramurals. Go Greek. Volunteer with something YOU are passionate about not just something you think will look good on your med school app. If you need an "excuse" to do all of this (besides the fact that you are still a junior in HS and you will be miserable if you start killing yourself with gunning for med school now before you are even there), med schools like well-rounded applicants.

But isn't CARS just the updated verbal skills section? I'm positive it's just reading the articles and analyzing them. That's why I want to start practicing them now. If not, let me know, I definitely won't. Besides that, I do plan to join clubs and hopefully take classes outside my major (unless I need certain classes for my major). I want to be well-rounded, so I will volunteer for medical and non-medical things. I am passionate about what I volunteer for, because - as cliche as it sounds - I do like helping people and seeing how my assistance affected them. That's why I like to volunteer at hospitals and places like soup kitchens. I have volunteered at hospitals in India, but I was informed that it wouldn't bring much weight to my application, since adcomms can't verify it. But yeah, I'll definitely volunteer and shadow. Now about going Greek, what's that like? And I'm a senior, so that's why I'm creating this plan. Thank you for your advice too, this forum is amazing lol

 

[DesertPT]

Suddenly it all makes sense.

😆

@jpdaman11: The SDN pre-med forum is the place to be once you've started college. Bail on college confidential now and forever. With that said, SDN has an advanced search feature and essentially every pre-med question you could think of has been asked a dozen times or more. This is one of the highest traffic forums of any kind on the internet, there is an enormous amount of information available, and so SDN is the go to pre-med source. But you haven't even started college yet. 3+ years of college before you even apply to med school is a long time. The majority of people who enter college as pre-meds don't even end up going to med school. So just take it one step at a time and learn along the way. You'll just burn yourself out or become even more neurotic than you already are by trying to be the king of everything.

You're probably 17... for crying out loud when I was 17 I was doing donuts and burnouts in the back of the Costco parking lot with my buddies on Friday nights, not getting my panties in a twist over my grad school apps that were years away...and I think I turned out alright. 😉 Spend a little time enjoying being a teenager (just don't do anything criminal obviously). Real life as an adult is seriously a very different experience than being a teenager and being a young college student, so have plenty of fun and do plenty of goofing off before the opportunity to do so with regularity is gone forever.

If I had spent my entire freshman year of college spending thousands of hours on pre-med mumbo jumbo I would have missed out on a lot of my all-time favorite memories (and though I didn't know it at the time, probably wouldn't have met my future wife either 😀). You just need to start taking your first year of college classes and make A's. Other than that things aren't really the huge-ass rush you're making it sound like they are. Going from being a high school student to being a medical student is 4.0 years flat is actually becoming less and less common as time goes on. But whether you do it in the "standard" amount of time or not, professional schools are looking for people who demonstrate a high level of intelligent and maturity, not automatron pre-meds who have checked hundred's of boxes as fast as possible.

Well that ended up being my $0.02 and then some. Geez, I sound like an old fart...

 

[jpdaman11]

😆

@jpdaman11: The SDN pre-med forum is the place to be once you've started college. Bail on college confidential now and forever. With that said, SDN has an advanced search feature and essentially every pre-med question you could think of has been asked a dozen times or more. This is one of the highest traffic forums of any kind on the internet, there is an enormous amount of information available, and so SDN is the go to pre-med source. But you haven't even started college yet. 3+ years of college before you even apply to med school is a long time. The majority of people who enter college as pre-meds don't even end up going to med school. So just take it one step at a time and learn along the way. You'll just burn yourself out or become even more neurotic than you already are by trying to be the king of everything.

You're probably 17... for crying out loud when I was 17 I was doing donuts and burnouts in the back of the Costco parking lot with my buddies on Friday nights, not getting my panties in a twist over my grad school apps that were years away...and I think I turned out alright. 😉 Spend a little time enjoying being a teenager (just don't do anything criminal obviously). Real life as an adult is seriously a very different experience than being a teenager and being a young college student, so have plenty of fun and do plenty of goofing off before the opportunity to do so with regularity is gone forever.

If I had spent my entire freshman year of college spending thousands of hours on pre-med mumbo jumbo I would have missed out on a lot of my all-time favorite memories (and though I didn't know it at the time, probably wouldn't have met my future wife either 😀). You just need to start taking your first year of college classes and make A's. Other than that things aren't really the huge-ass rush you're making it sound like they are. Going from being a high school student to being a medical student is 4.0 years flat is actually becoming less and less common as time goes on. But whether you do it in the "standard" amount of time or not, professional schools are looking for people who demonstrate a high level of intelligent and maturity, not automatron pre-meds who have checked hundred's of boxes as fast as possible.

Well that ended up being my $0.02 and then some. Geez, I sound like an old fart...

 

[jpdaman11]

😆

@jpdaman11: The SDN pre-med forum is the place to be once you've started college. Bail on college confidential now and forever. With that said, SDN has an advanced search feature and essentially every pre-med question you could think of has been asked a dozen times or more. This is one of the highest traffic forums of any kind on the internet, there is an enormous amount of information available, and so SDN is the go to pre-med source. But you haven't even started college yet. 3+ years of college before you even apply to med school is a long time. The majority of people who enter college as pre-meds don't even end up going to med school. So just take it one step at a time and learn along the way. You'll just burn yourself out or become even more neurotic than you already are by trying to be the king of everything.

You're probably 17... for crying out loud when I was 17 I was doing donuts and burnouts in the back of the Costco parking lot with my buddies on Friday nights, not getting my panties in a twist over my grad school apps that were years away...and I think I turned out alright. 😉 Spend a little time enjoying being a teenager (just don't do anything criminal obviously). Real life as an adult is seriously a very different experience than being a teenager and being a young college student, so have plenty of fun and do plenty of goofing off before the opportunity to do so with regularity is gone forever.

If I had spent my entire freshman year of college spending thousands of hours on pre-med mumbo jumbo I would have missed out on a lot of my all-time favorite memories (and though I didn't know it at the time, probably wouldn't have met my future wife either 😀). You just need to start taking your first year of college classes and make A's. Other than that things aren't really the huge-ass rush you're making it sound like they are. Going from being a high school student to being a medical student is 4.0 years flat is actually becoming less and less common as time goes on. But whether you do it in the "standard" amount of time or not, professional schools are looking for people who demonstrate a high level of intelligent and maturity, not automatron pre-meds who have checked hundred's of boxes as fast as possible.

Well that ended up being my $0.02 and then some. Geez, I sound like an old fart...

Yeah, CC isn't much help anymore lol. I just turned 18. The only reason I'm stressing is because it has become so difficult to become a doctor. I really want to be one and I am passionate about it, unlike most kids who want it for the money. I do like helping people. I'm just concerned about making it there. I really hope I can. I want to chill out lol but I really want to make it into U of M's or John's Hopkin's Medical School. I see so many bright minds troubled with making it there and many who don't make it, and I just can't let myself become one of those kids. I have heard of burning myself out, so I have calmed down a bit, I'm just trying to make sure I have down what's recommended and have enough time to do what I love. Everyone says college should be the best years I have, so I am looking forward to that. I just want to make sure that I put what's important before going out, meeting up with my friends, finding women and whatnot. I am a bit intimidated by how hard it seems to maintain a GPA above 3.8, and how more difficult it seems to maintain a 3.9 science GPA. Do you have any tips on that? Also, do you have any tips on how to show leadership? I was hoping to start a Club of Future Doctors for freshman premeds, who could ask doctors if they would take a small trip with us in the summer to places like Africa or India to treat people with diseases. I know it sounds difficult, but those innocent people in those countries need some assistance, especially since they can't receive it from their own country's. Is it a good idea? Let me know your thoughts. Besides that, wow, you found your wife in college?! I figured I would meet mine in medical school 🤣hopefully I meet mine as early as you, it sounds amazing to have someone like that support you through college and graduate school. But besides all of the stress, I do plan to enjoy my time. I just want to make sure I achieve my goals that I've had since 2nd grades.

 

[DesertPT]

I see so many bright minds troubled with making it there and many who don't make it, and I just can't let myself become one of those kids.

This is why most people apply to ~20 or more medical schools. You should not base your plans around getting into one school. Each school receives hundreds of applications every year from people who are perfectly qualified.

 

[jpdaman11]

This is why most people apply to ~20 or more medical schools. You should not base your plans around getting into one school. Each school receives hundreds of applications every year from people who are perfectly qualified.

I'll definitely apply to a ton of medical schools to at least make it in some of them. It's just my dream to go to a top tier school. I really want to make it.

 

[alphamine]

I do not recommend volunteering at the hospital in bulk. It's not about the hours, it's about the long-term commitment and the lessons learned.

P.S. if you review for the MCAT now, you won't get anything out of it. The MCAT is full of courses you'll be taking in college...COURSES, not review groups. You will not understand much of it.

I suggest that you take a deep breath and take it a little bit more easy.

 

[Dreamstoo]

One thing about CARS:

I would recommend reading one of these everyday:

An op ed from New York Times
Something from the New Yorker
If you are into sports- Grantland (the stories are about as long as the New Yorker)

DO not prep for the MCAT as a freshman lol. I know someone who tried doing this and gave up after a week or two. It is reasonable to start at the end of your sophomore year though.

 

[Dreamstoo]

I'll definitely apply to a ton of medical schools to at least make it in some of them. It's just my dream to go to a top tier school. I really want to make it.

At this point, just think about doing well in your classes. Do not put that added pressure on yourself. Just try your best.

What I would do though is keep track of your GPA. What I did personally was after each year, I calculated my cGPA and sGPA and tried to see where I can be competitive and which schools weren't realistic. I plan to apply this cycle and I feel it helped a lot. With the research I have done over the years, my top choice is perfectly reasonable for me to apply to based on where I stand academically.

 

[jpdaman11]

I do not recommend volunteering at the hospital in bulk. It's not about the hours, it's about the long-term commitment and the lessons learned.

P.S. if you review for the MCAT now, you won't get anything out of it. The MCAT is full of courses you'll be taking in college...COURSES, not review groups. You will not understand much of it.

I suggest that you take a deep breath and take it a little bit more easy.

I've learned a lot from the hospital that I'm currently volunteering at. I've volunteered in every department and train volunteers now. I'm on call for whenever it is busy and when they need me. I have a great relationship with the coordinator. However, I've head from many grads that racking up hours really helps. I won't be studying for the MCAT besides the little preparation for CARS.

 

[jpdaman11]

At this point, just think about doing well in your classes. Do not put that added pressure on yourself. Just try your best.

What I would do though is keep track of your GPA. What I did personally was after each year, I calculated my cGPA and sGPA and tried to see where I can be competitive and which schools weren't realistic. I plan to apply this cycle and I feel it helped a lot. With the research I have done over the years, my top choice is perfectly reasonable for me to apply to based on where I stand academically.

I'll definitely keep track of my GPA. I'll be stuck to it like an EKG on a hairy man's arm 😉 thanks for the CARS advice. I'm definitely staying up-to-date on those articles to read. I'm trying to take my MCAT at the end of my sophomore year summer. Do you have any advice for this?

 

[ComputerGuy365]

Take a damn breath. I'm in the same boat as you, high schooler, obsessed with future blah blah blah. Don't even bother with CARS. You should just enjoy your damn life while you can. Nice job with the volunteering by the way.

 

[efle]

@jpdaman11 where did you end up matriculating?

As others say, don't actually study for the MCAT this early. It won't help you that much. But you should try reading some New Yorker and NEJM just because it's good interesting stuff and fits the premed stereotypes.

 

[Dreamstoo]

@jpdaman11 where did you end up matriculating?

As others say, don't actually study for the MCAT this early. It won't help you that much. But you should try reading some New Yorker and NEJM just because it's good interesting stuff and fits the premed stereotypes.

I tried this personally but I honestly was lost after reading a few journals.

Stick with New Yorker and New York Time op eds (these are good for trying to catch onto an author's tone).

NEJM if you have enough time on your hands. I do agree this could help but not as much as reading New Yorker IMO. I know of an individual that started off with a 10+ VR at the beginning of prep on the old test from the gecko because he was an avid reader

 

[efle]

I tried this personally but I honestly was lost after reading a few journals.

Stick with New Yorker and New York Time op eds (these are good for trying to catch onto an author's tone).

NEJM if you have enough time on your hands. I do agree this could help but not as much as reading New Yorker IMO.

Well you really just read the abstracts and then maybe the full results + discussion for stuff that interests you. It's a good way to find new science terms + methods to learn about too.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Well you really just read the abstracts and then maybe the full results + discussion for stuff that interests you. It's a good way to find new science terms + methods to learn about too.

College gets too busy. I really would be surprised if someone was able to do this on a daily basis for years.

 

[efle]

College gets too busy. I really would be surprised if someone was able to do this on a daily basis for years.

During public transit, during lunch, on laptop during especially dull/easy classes

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

This has to be a troll

He is not a troll. There are people just like him all over the Ann Arbor campus.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

OP, even though your posts remind me of many intolerable Michigan undergrads, I will give you some sincere heartfelt advice. The first thing you need to do is lighten up. The next thing you need to do is realize that 25% of the undergrads on the Ann Arbor campus have a higher ACT score than yours. You will meet people on that campus who take calculus courses for easy A's.

You need to slow down and take four years. You should not take the MCAT prior to the end of your third year. If you major in Biology you should only take two science classes per semester. Don't take honors classes. Flunk the advance placement exams. Take algebra based physics.

I presume that you are a Michigan resident. Only 50% of the class at Michigan's medical school are Michigan residents. If you are lucky and spend your time efficiently, you might get a 3.5 or 3.6 and get into the MD school at Wayne or Michigan State. If you have to "lower yourself" and take a spot at Central, Oakland or Western you will find plenty of UM undergrads there. You ought to know that more Michigan undergrads go to MSU's DO school than UM's med school.

 

[efle]

OP, even though your posts remind me of many intolerable Michigan undergrads, I will give you some sincere heartfelt advice. The first thing you need to do is lighten up. The next thing you need to do is realize that 25% of the undergrads on the Ann Arbor campus have a higher ACT score than yours. You will meet people on that campus who take calculus courses for easy A's.

You need to slow down and take four years. You should not take the MCAT prior to the end of your third year. If you major in Biology you should only take two science classes per semester. Don't take honors classes. Flunk the advance placement exams. Take algebra based physics.

I presume that you are a Michigan resident. Only 50% of the class at Michigan's medical school are Michigan residents. If you are lucky and spend your time efficiently, you might get a 3.5 or 3.6 and get into the MD school at Wayne or Michigan State. If you have to "lower yourself" and take a spot at Central, Oakland or Western you will find plenty of UM undergrads there. You ought to know that more Michigan undergrads go to MSU's DO school than UM's med school.

A few things to point out.

According to the MSAR, 26% of the med students also attended UMich for undergrad. That is massive relative to the in-school favoritism for most other elite places. Source for saying the MSU DO has a higher proportion than UMich?

I suspect adcoms notice gaming the system. If Honors is much harder, the med school will be aware, and will want to see it.

Also, test scores don't predict well for individual performance, just groups. Being at the 75th percentile does not mean he'll be lucky to get a 3.5. My score is average for my school and I set curves in the prereqs

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Here's the link to the AACOM data set showing the number of DO students from U of M:
https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2014_Mat.pdf?sfvrsn=12

There were 84 DO school bound U of M grads in 2014. You and I both know that most of those matriculants are bound for MSU's DO school. Since there are only about 140 entering students at Michigan's med school, 26% of that total would be about 37. That's 84 vs. 37. Is that good enough for you?

You are extremely naive about adcoms' awareness of applicants gaming the system. Why do you think that less than 15% of the matriculants at allopathic medical schools are physical science majors. I asked one nitwit admissions staffer at a top 40 med school if they normalized transcripts to account for the varying rigor of undergraduate colleges and majors. Her reply was, "How can we?"

Your score might be average at your school and you might set the curve, but you aren't at Michigan. I grew up in Michigan. My wife is a Michigan alum. Ann Arbor is chock full of brilliant but failed premeds.

If this kid wants to go to medical school, he needs to be a realist. He needs to know his limitations. He might be a honcho at his high school, but he's in for a rude awakening in Ann Arbor. If I were his dad, I would have told him his best path to med school was at Michigan State. He's going to be carrying a piano on his back while he climbs this mountain.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Probably a similar proportion of UM students at UM/MSU-COM, but different numerically (higher absolute number at MSU; 60-70 for my class).

I disagree with your characterization that many UM undergrads are "intolerable" and that AA is full of "brilliant but failed" premeds. However, the school is certainly not one prone to grade inflation and I know many classes have a pretty decent (i.e. unfortunate) distribution of grades.

But yes, competition at UM med is ridiculous with an average of 3.8/35 for admissions last year. However, even MSU had averages around 3.6/29 this past year, which is awfully high for DO.

 

[efle]

Here's the link to the AACOM data set showing the number of DO students from U of M:
https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2014_Mat.pdf?sfvrsn=12

There were 84 DO school bound U of M grads in 2014. You and I both know that most of those matriculants are bound for MSU's DO school. Since there are only about 140 entering students at Michigan's med school, 26% of that total would be about 37. That's 84 vs. 37. Is that good enough for you?

You are extremely naive about adcoms' awareness of applicants gaming the system. Why do you think that less than 15% of the matriculants at allopathic medical schools are physical science majors. I asked one nitwit admissions staffer at a top 40 med school if they normalized transcripts to account for the varying rigor of undergraduate colleges and majors. Her reply was, "How can we?"

Your score might be average at your school and you might set the curve, but you aren't at Michigan. I grew up in Michigan. My wife is a Michigan alum. Ann Arbor is chock full of brilliant but failed premeds.

If this kid wants to go to medical school, he needs to be a realist. He needs to know his limitations. He might be a honcho at his high school, but he's in for a rude awakening in Ann Arbor. If I were his dad, I would have told him his best path to med school was at Michigan State. He's going to be carrying a piano on his back while he climbs this mountain.

See johnamo below - a crazy amount (like 80%) of the DO apps do end up at MSUCOM. I wonder why so few head out to the many other DO schools

What kind of nonsense argument is it that 15% are physical science? Is that supposed to be because physical science is so hard and premeds dodge it? Why then does Social Science have an even smaller percent despite being notoriously easier than stuff like Bio, the most common by far? Come on now. You're embarrassing yourself with half-baked arguments like this. And, private med schools do account for your alma mater's selectivity, giving it "highest importance" along with GPA and MCAT.

I go to Wustl. I've seen plenty of brilliant premeds fail too, many with SATs higher than mine. My point is only that you cannot tell a single person what to expect like that; it's not a shock for me to have a >3.95 because I am a single data point. You can say it will be hard, but not that you know they'll be lucky to scrape a 3.5 because their ACT is at the top quartile boundary.

I warn people about the attrition rate of many who used to be valedictorians too. But I'd never speak in such absolute terms about an individual. Some people choose the hard path because they like a challenge, and have their sights set towards the top MDs. It's a risk, sure, but people do it, and many had ACTs below their school's 75th percentile.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Well, I do have evidence that he is correct in saying that the majority of DO-bound U of M students go to MSU. As I said, there are somewhere approaching 70 U of M students in my class -- second in number only to MSU students (as you might expect).

I will stay out of the rest of this argument. 😉

 

[efle]

Well, I do have evidence that he is correct in saying that the majority of DO-bound U of M students go to MSU. As I said, there are somewhere approaching 70 U of M students in my class -- second in number only to MSU students (as you might expect).

I will stay out of the rest of this argument. 😉

If there are 70, and a class of 1,234/4 = ~309, then I make 23%
Less than 26% but quite similar, and certainly more DO by absolutes

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

See johnamo below - a crazy amount (like 80%) of the DO apps do end up at MSUCOM. I wonder why so few head out to the many other DO schools

What kind of nonsense argument is it that 15% are physical science? Is that supposed to be because physical science is so hard and premeds dodge it? Why then does Social Science have an even smaller percent despite being notoriously easier than stuff like Bio, the most common by far? Come on now. You're embarrassing yourself with half-baked arguments like this. And, private med schools do account for your alma mater's selectivity, giving it "highest importance" along with GPA and MCAT.

I go to Wustl. I've seen plenty of brilliant premeds fail too, many with SATs higher than mine. My point is only that you cannot tell a single person what to expect like that; it's not a shock for me to have a >3.95 because I am a single data point. You can say it will be hard, but not that you know they'll be lucky to scrape a 3.5 because their ACT is at the top quartile boundary.

I warn people about the attrition rate of many who used to be valedictorians too. But I'd never speak in such absolute terms about an individual. Some people choose the hard path because they like a challenge, and have their sights set towards the top MDs. It's a risk, sure, but people do it, and many had ACTs below their school's 75th percentile.

Congratulations on getting into WUSTL. In some respects you must be intelligent. However, you know nothing about Michigan.

U of M grads go to the DO school at Michigan State because most Michigan undergraduates are state residents and MSU is the best choice for them. For Michigan residents MSU is cheaper than any other DO school other than Lake Erie COM. MSU ranks number 1 among DO schools in NIH funding. MSU DO is a breeding ground for Michigan's primary care providers and some of the U of M grads had primary care docs who were DOs from MSU. They may know an MSU DO socially. (One of my high school classmates is an MSU DO.)

If you look at the work of Clarence Kreiter from the University of Iowa med school you will see that most admissions offices do not normalize transcripts to account for undergraduate rigor. AT Wustl and the Ivy League they might, but that is contrary to the norm. I will admit (and this is due to inside knowledge) that some of the newer MD schools are playing "money ball" by taking more physical science and engineering majors with high MCAT scores and sub 3.5 GPAs.

Yes, I am arguing that majoring in the physical sciences is a poor tactic if you want to go to med school. It is exclaimed all over SDN that premeds should never take more than two math/science classes per semester. For chemistry majors, they typically take three in one semester per year and for physics majors its three every semester. For engineers it's often four math and science courses per term. This is a grade point killer and given the narrow standard deviations in GPAs among matriculants, there just isn't enough room at the bottom to let in people with GPAs of 3.3.

There are few people from the social sciences who get into med school because the typical sociology major can't or won't hack the physics and chemistry. They just don't have the goods. The OP might be a world beater. Perhaps his plan will work but the percentages are against him. He needs to know that he has chosen a path that is needlessly difficult. Good luck to him.

 

[efle]

Congratulations on getting into WUSTL. In some respects you must be intelligent. However, you know nothing about Michigan.

U of M grads go to the DO school at Michigan State because most Michigan undergraduates are state residents and MSU is the best choice for them. For Michigan residents MSU is cheaper than any other DO school other than Lake Erie COM. MSU ranks number 1 among DO schools in NIH funding. MSU DO is a breeding ground for Michigan's primary care providers and some of the U of M grads had primary care docs who were DOs from MSU. They may know an MSU DO socially. (One of my high school classmates is an MSU DO.)

If you look at the work of Clarence Kreiter from the University of Iowa med school you will see that most admissions offices do not normalize transcripts to account for undergraduate rigor. AT Wustl and the Ivy League they might, but that is contrary to the norm. I will admit (and this is due to inside knowledge) that some of the newer MD schools are playing "money ball" by taking more physical science and engineering majors with high MCAT scores and sub 3.5 GPAs.

Yes, I am arguing that majoring in the physical sciences is a poor tactic if you want to go to med school. It is exclaimed all over SDN that premeds should never take more than two math/science classes per semester. For chemistry majors, they typically take three in one semester per year and for physics majors its three every semester. For engineers it's often four math and science courses per term. This is a grade point killer and given the narrow standard deviations in GPAs among matriculants, there just isn't enough room at the bottom to let in people with GPAs of 3.3.

There are few people from the social sciences who get into med school because the typical sociology major can't or won't hack the physics and chemistry. They just don't have the goods. The OP might be a world beater. Perhaps his plan will work but the percentages are against him. He needs to know that he has chosen a path that is needlessly difficult. Good luck to him.

Always good to learn. Thanks for the insights.

I do wonder why only some schools factor in undergrad selectivity, or major difficulty. There must be something beneficial for the schools that account for these things that keeps them doing it, so why any schools would opt not to is strange.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

The reasons that adcoms do not normalize transcripts to account for differences in colleges and majors are: 1) they don't know how to do it; 2) they're lazy; 3) it's considered unfair to punish someone for going to the tenth best college in a state - the nitwit referred to above told me that students at such institutions might have grown as undergraduates while people who go to Haverford, Carleton, Harvey Mudd and Cal Tech could have regressed; 4) the fear that rich kids who go to tough schools are gaining an advantage over poor kids who go to a CC and then transfer; and 5) US News and World Report's ranking of medical schools gives six percent weight to the average GPA of the entering class without any adjustment for undergrad rigor.

Let me burst one more bubble of yours. State of residence has a significant bearing on an applicant's chances of getting into an allopathic medical school. John Rolph and others at the Rand Corporation in the 1970s found that for "good" applicants (i.e., high GPA, MCAT etc) that their chances of getting into medical school varied tremendously depending on their state of residence. If you look at table 21 on the AAMC website you will see significant differences in average GPA and MCAT scores for matriculants depending on the state they are from. I have these tables going back to 1997 and the differences persist over time.

You should also know that Step 1 scores are used for residency matching only because it narrows down the number of applicants to a manageable number. For example, there is no relationship between Step 1 score and completion/washing out of general surgery residencies. A program director in radiation oncology told me that he knew Step 1 scores were meaningless but he "had to use something".

Med school admissions and residency matching are not empirically validated, rational processes played out on a level playing field leading to a perfect meritocracy. They are shot through with irrationality, prejudice, old wives tales and politics.