community college courses

[sunnex3]

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i'm currently a sophomore pursuing a biology major at University of Pennsylvania.

I'm considering taking my 2 semesters of physics requirements outside of Penn, at my local community college, NVCC (Northern Virginia Community College) NVCC has a fairly rigorous program (for a community college) and has a contract for transfer students from NVCC to UVA, so it's not just a low quality community college.

However, I am worried about how taking a couple community college courses would look to an admissions officer. Would it seriously detract from the competitiveness of my application? I haven't taken the GREs yet, but I have excellent activities and a high GPA (3.92 cumulative so far.)

The courses for the biology major at Penn are quite rigorous, and I will be taking every other prequisitie requirement at Penn.

Thoughts and opinions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[sunnex3]

anyone at all?
i need to start registering for classes soon, so i need advice asap.

i emailed the associate dean of admissions at penn, he told me i shouldn't be worried but i want to get more opinions about it.

i've also emailed about 10-12 vet schools i'm looking into, so far i've gotten replies from michigan state, ohio state, and tufts. OSU and MSU said its fine, Tufts said that courses from 4-year institution is preferred, but community college courses are perfectly acceptable as well.

thanks!

 

[tpad40]

Just a little confused...how will you take classes at NVCC while attending Penn? Or is this a summer course?

 

[sunnex3]

oh yeah, it'll be during this coming summer, 2009, and summer 2010, not while i'm at penn.

 

[tpad40]

Oh, ok, thanks! I think this question has been talked about a lot in different threads and the general conensus is a 4-year is preferred but generally a CC is OK. You will deifnitely need to be able to answer the "why" question. If you have a good reason, and can explain, then you should be totally fine! You are def. doing the right thing contacting admissions.

BTW, I took summer courses at UVA and *loved* it if that is an opition! Best teacher I have ever had!

 

[Klhughes]

I took a few classes outside of where I got my undergrad degree. I had to take microbiology during my senior year and the only time it was offered at Stockton (my undergrad school) conflicted with other classes that I needed to graduate so I took it at the local community college. I never heard anything bad about this from the admissions people here at TN. I think as long as it is comparable to what you would get at a regular 4 yr undergrad you should be fine.

 

[sunnex3]

it's not so much that i can't take it at penn because it doesn't fit with my schedule...it's more that
a) i want more room in my schedule to explore a lot of cool courses at penn that i really want to take that aren't science related
and
b) i don't want to risk decreasing my GPA by overloading my schedule with a lot of science classes (as a bio major i'll be taking a lot of mid to upper-level bio courses)

 

[sunnex3]

also, i would take it at one of my local universities over the summer (american, catholic, gmu, gwu, georgetown, etc) but they're either too far for me to commute to daily or too expensive.

 

[Klhughes]

If Penn allows you to transfer them in as equivalents to what their physics classes would be, I wouldn't think that there would be a problem but you should double check with the schools you want to apply to just in case. I know there is another thread right now that has something like this where OKSU didn't accept someone community college pre-reqs (and I think physics is a pre-req at many schools).

 

[sunnex3]

i don't think that penn allows me to transfer in community college classes.
i've emailed about a dozen schools about whether they accept community college courses, and so far they've said that they do (of the ones that replied)

i really just don't want the community college course to detract a lot from the competitiveness of my application. the schools that i'm really considering are:
penn
tufts
uc-davis
ross
virginia tech
ohio state

 

[sumstorm]

Why not take some of the really cool courses over the summer at Penn? Or the physics over the summer at Penn? Also, I don't think adcoms would like the 'don't want to overwhelm my schedule with sciences' reasoning.

 

[david594]

i don't think that penn allows me to transfer in community college classes.
i've emailed about a dozen schools about whether they accept community college courses, and so far they've said that they do (of the ones that replied)

i really just don't want the community college course to detract a lot from the competitiveness of my application. the schools that i'm really considering are:
penn
tufts
uc-davis
ross
virginia tech
ohio state

My opinion is that you probably won't have much of an issue with taking them at a community college. They are lower level courses and are generally pretty comparable between a CC and a university. So gen bio and gen chem definitely, physics(eh)
.
I would definitely avoid taking any of the "harder" or upper level courses at a CC though. So orgo, biochem, microbio, cell and molec, genetics, etc.

My thought process is that all of the upper level and harder classes build on the knowledge of the lower courses. So if you take the lower course at a CC, and then excel in the upper courses at a university you are demonstrating that you had learned enough from those courses.

Physics I would only be iffy on because with orgo, its among the hardest of the course series you have to take, and there are no requirements for upper level physics courses to demonstrate that you learned the necessary things from it.

For most of the universities you named off as being local, arnt they all private institutes? Are there no state schools within commuting distance? Honestly, a 45 minute - 1 hour drive isn't really a horrible commute during a summer session.

 

[sunnex3]

well, i can't afford to pay for summer courses at penn or any other private university...it's far too expensive.

does taking community college courses really look that bad on my application, even if i've taken all my requirements (besides 2 physics courses) at Penn?

 

[david594]

does taking community college courses really look that bad on my application, even if i've taken all my requirements (besides 2 physics courses) at Penn?

Nah, especially not if you ace them along with all the other courses you are taking(which you seem to be doing pretty well with so far).

 

[sunnex3]

My opinion is that you probably won't have much of an issue with taking them at a community college. They are lower level courses and are generally pretty comparable between a CC and a university. So gen bio and gen chem definitely, physics(eh)
.
I would definitely avoid taking any of the "harder" or upper level courses at a CC though. So orgo, biochem, microbio, cell and molec, genetics, etc.

My thought process is that all of the upper level and harder classes build on the knowledge of the lower courses. So if you take the lower course at a CC, and then excel in the upper courses at a university you are demonstrating that you had learned enough from those courses.

Physics I would only be iffy on because with orgo, its among the hardest of the course series you have to take, and there are no requirements for upper level physics courses to demonstrate that you learned the necessary things from it.

For most of the universities you named off as being local, arnt they all private institutes? Are there no state schools within commuting distance? Honestly, a 45 minute - 1 hour drive isn't really a horrible commute during a summer session.

i am taking every other requirement (orgo, bio, chem, biochem, etc) at penn as part of my major. it's just that physics is NOT required for my major so i thought i might as well take it somewhere else.

there is one state university in my area (GMU), but it's quite a commute and i don't have a car to use in the summer so i would have to take the bus/metro to get there, which would easily be 1 hr 30 min commute...plus i'm planning on working at a vet hospital as a tech, and also at the ER/specialty departments at one of the referral centers in my area.

 

[sumstorm]

Physics I would only be iffy on because with orgo, its among the hardest of the course series you have to take, and there are no requirements for upper level physics courses to demonstrate that you learned the necessary things from it.

I was thinking the same thing, but you phrased it really well. I think, if I was going to take any of them at a CC, it would be the intro level bio.

 

[sunnex3]

hmm..
i've been talking/emailing with the associate dean of admissions at the Penn Vet School for several months now, so i asked him about taking 2 physics courses at my community college and here is what he told me:
"If your GPA is a 3.5 or above or close you don't have to
worry about an isolated course at a community college. I presume you are
taking Physics in the summer and that is typical and a good reason not
to take it at your home school and availability to a 4 yr school may not
be good. In other words, don't worry about it! Physics is not a key course."

that's from malcolm keiter, associate dean of admissions at penn.

it's really hard for me to resist the low cost of attending community college, which is a huge plus for me.

 

[david594]

it's really hard for me to resist the low cost of attending community college, which is a huge plus for me.

If I were in your shoes I would take it. Save big money and you have a great GPA, so you don't have anything you need to prove.

 

[sunnex3]

yeah i don't know...

i'm just reallllllly scared that this will detract a lot from my application, especially since i'm only a sophomore and don't know what my gpa will be, especially after taking orgo (blahhh)

i just don't want to regret this decision later - so it's maybe it's just better that i take it at my local state university, George Mason (which is a little far, but maybe it's worth it in the end)

 

[Shanomong]

hmm..
i've been talking/emailing with the associate dean of admissions at the Penn Vet School for several months now, so i asked him about taking 2 physics courses at my community college and here is what he told me:
"If your GPA is a 3.5 or above or close you don't have to
worry about an isolated course at a community college. I presume you are
taking Physics in the summer and that is typical and a good reason not
to take it at your home school and availability to a 4 yr school may not
be good. In other words, don't worry about it! Physics is not a key course."

that's from malcolm keiter, associate dean of admissions at penn.

it's really hard for me to resist the low cost of attending community college, which is a huge plus for me.

You're fiiiinnnneeeeee, you have NOTHING to worry about!! And this is coming from someone who was rejected from Penn Vet the first time around in large part because of my community college courses.

The difference between me and you: you're going to Penn. And you'd only be taking 2 courses outside of the school. The reason they disapproved of my CC courses was because I spent 2 full years at a CC. I took both bios, and calc there. Then I took the rest of the pre-reqs at a city school which they still did not consider competitive. In order to get in this time around, and prove that I could succeed in upper-level bios at a higher tier institution, all I had to do was to take micro and biochem at Drexel. You're taking ALL of your other classes at Penn, and you're rocking them! You're ABSOLUTELY fine!! And a lot of students take their summer classes at a CC to save money. If they want a reason (they wont), the reason is that you wanted to take them during the summer, and it was cheaper at a CC. That's it.

Plus, Mac Keiter is the dean of admissions for the vet school. What he says goes. He was actually one of my interviewers at Penn... his second in command Rosanne Herpen is the person I did my follow up interview with after last years rejection. He is with the interviewers in the admissions committee deciding what goes and who gets in. He's a pretty big deal. If he OK'd it, it's absolutely 210% OK! 🙂