Community Psychiatry

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Indryd

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I have been walking around for a while telling everyone that I am primarily interested in community psychiatry.

With ERAS season coming up for me, I was sitting here running through mock interviews in my head when I realized that if I told someone, "I am interested in community psychiatry," and they said, "What do you mean?" I would have no idea what exactly is meant by "community psychiatry."

I would love to hear some of your "definitions" or at least impressions of what is meant by that phrase.

I will offer my own understanding of the phrase by talking about myself, as so far I had always defined com psych with reference to my own interests.

I have 0 (zero) desire to ever be a professor or Dean.

I have zero (0) interest in doing research (this is not to say I have some aversion to evidence-based medicine).

I come from a rough background/background of poverty/surrounded by addicts, and my goal is to treat people of such a background.

I spent my college years managing free clinics, and I would love to devote time as a professional to starting new ones/supporting existing ones.

Is that a good answer to "What do you mean by community psychiatry?"?

How would you define community psychiatry?

Thanks!

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Without knowing too much about community psychiatry myself, I just want to mention that a lot of "community psychiatrists" are in fact academics/"professors". This is because a lot of time indigent populations depends on medicaid/medicare and don't pay enough--their services are provided by a combination of government subsidy/GME (i.e. residents)/academic practice. You do have to do a little teaching of medical students and residents, but hopefully wouldn't be too onerous.

Many "community psychiatrists" also do research, but of a very different sort than what you can imagine--under the umbrella of "mental health services research." This field is traditionally more allied with public policy/political science/law.

So if you want to work with an indigent/addicts population I don't think it excludes academia/research as a pathway--in fact you might end up having to carve out some kind of academic practice in this field, since it's kind of unprofitable to do full time "private" "community psychiatry". Another something to think about is working for the State/Federal offices of mental health.

Meanwhile, another way to do this is to do all "private" 80% cash/insurance practice, 20% "community/public" practice. You can in theory subsidize your indigent patients with payments from private insurance.

Just things to think about.


I have been walking around for a while telling everyone that I am primarily interested in community psychiatry.

With ERAS season coming up for me, I was sitting here running through mock interviews in my head when I realized that if I told someone, "I am interested in community psychiatry," and they said, "What do you mean?" I would have no idea what exactly is meant by "community psychiatry."

I would love to hear some of your "definitions" or at least impressions of what is meant by that phrase.

I will offer my own understanding of the phrase by talking about myself, as so far I had always defined com psych with reference to my own interests.

I have 0 (zero) desire to ever be a professor or Dean.

I have zero (0) interest in doing research (this is not to say I have some aversion to evidence-based medicine).

I come from a rough background/background of poverty/surrounded by addicts, and my goal is to treat people of such a background.

I spent my college years managing free clinics, and I would love to devote time as a professional to starting new ones/supporting existing ones.

Is that a good answer to "What do you mean by community psychiatry?"?

How would you define community psychiatry?

Thanks!
 
....Is that a good answer to "What do you mean by community psychiatry?"?..
I think I can help. When I was in the adult residency, I spent most Wednesday afternoons and evenings at a free psychiatric clinic. If you had any kind of insurance, rich family support or Government health care support, you couldn't even get in.

After fellowship, once I got over the foolishness of working for a private psychiatric hospital, I have worked for a CHC, a federally-funded community health center, where 30-35% of my patients have no insurance and are seen on a sliding scale. About 1/3rd are children and adolescents, though I hope to bring that ratio up. We have a pharmacy under that sliding scale as well, where the low slide gives you meds at $2 + cost. Formulary is a bit limited, but we have enough that I can work with a 2 or 3-step approach to most problems. Most of the rest of my patients are Medicaid/Medicare. It is all out-patients, except that I do a few evaluations in Nursing Homes when referred from our primary care physicians, and, since we have an attached family practice residency, I have an FP resident in my office once or twice a week, and I do consult on their patients at the local hospital about twice each month

We do have a completely free "homeless" clinic in town as well, staffed with a CNA, and we cooperate. They don't evaluate, but do hand out meds based on existing prescriptions. Eventually, once I get a PA or CNA into our clinic, I will spend 1/2 day at the free clinic as well, and then they will be able to use our pharmacy.


I will call what I do "Community Psychiatry." Given, we have a small town, not much gangs and rough-and-tumble neighborhoods, but we certainly have Meth in abundance.

The Community Health Center system is spread throughout the US, though most of them do not have a psychiatrist.

We do also have a state Community Mental Health Center locally, but they do more counseling. Other places, these have psychiatrists as well.

So the systems are in place and there are lots of possibilities for Community Psychiatry throughout the US.
 
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"Community Psychiatry" has had (and continues to have) many meanings, depending on whom you talk to, including:
- care for the uninsured/underinsured, in all its forms
- outpatient psychiatry
- government (usually city or county) run clinics
- clinics with multiple levels of care and case managers to help the most needy navigate the system successfully

What follows is a very long-winded answer to the question. Feel free to "Abandon Ship!" now.

However, I believe the term originated as an alternative to institutionally-based (typically large state hospitals) mental health care, where patients were often held for weeks to decades. Basically, there were often only two levels of care: private practice psychiatrists and large (enormous, often small cities really) hospitals. When the first significantly effective psychiatric medications were deployed (mostly 1950's), a large number of the institutionalized patients improved enough that it was possible to think about letting them live outside the hospitals.

With the 1960's generally increased interest in individuality and decreased interest in conformity. During this time, not-for-profit and gov't sponsored mental health centers opened up, staffed by crop of baby-boomer psychologists, social workers, and other mental health professionals. These clinics focused largely on assisting people with managing the difficulties of "normal" life (death of a loved one, divorce, couples' therapy, etc) and they were often resistant to, or directly hostile to, any "medical model" (especially medication) treatments. The term "mental health" was intended to avoid focusing on pathology and "medicalization." When they happened across someone with severely psychotic illness (esp. those with dangerous behaviors), those patient were typically referred to other entities (often the State Hospitals). These Mental Health clinics largely wanted nothing to do with people who had graduated medical school (unless they were of the ilk that denounced their medical training entirely) and psychiatrists interested in treating patients with severe or dangerous psychotic symptoms didn't seem interested in the MH clinics. At this time, Public Health depts were primarily focused on issues of sanitation and infectious diseases like TB and STD's - and did not provide much if any of what we now think of as Primary Care. The vast majority of private practice physicians (non-psychiatric) did not treat psychiatric disorders, so referred mild-moderate illness to non-psychiatrist MH practitioners (private or public), private practice psychiatrists, or State Hospitals. So gov't sponsored MH clinics were not a part of the Public Health system and the Public Health doctors, nurses, etc. were mostly perfectly happy to not have to deal with mental health whatsoever. As a result, public Mental Health grew up completely apart from the rest of the Public Health system - and we see that separation continued today in nearly every county across the nation.

In the 1970's, there was a big push to de-institutionalize State Hospital patients who were stable, both because of cost to the states and because of basic human dignity issues. The principle of only using the Least Restrictive treatments possible was pushed. In order to treat these patients in the "Community," programs for outpt psychiatric treatment, housing assistance and supervision, activities and training and supported employment were all planned and developed for the goal of assisting these patients to live in the community. Two huge things were forgotten:
A) Since there were few models for this, no one knew which programs would actually benefit patients and/or the community. All too often, the decisions about which kind of programs would be provided for which patients turned out to be based on assumptions about, "Well, this is obviously the right thing to do." There was insufficient thought about the "science" (observation, hypothesis, deciding an outcome to measure, testing, assessment, repeat) of this endeavor and so there were very few programs that kept records of the outcomes they were meant to influence. Let's face it, this was a time when more and more of American culture was based on, "If it feels good (or "right"), do it."
B) The funding for many of the programs was incomplete or non-existent, often with the promise of complete funding later. Very commonly, the treatment, housing, feeding of these patients formerly provided by the State was now left up to the counties or towns without any clear funding streams for doing that.
As a result, many of the programs changed, withered, or were simply never implemented at all. The joke in California is that Governor Ronald Reagan closed 50% of the State Hospital beds and therefore declared a 50% reduction in mental illness, so decided funding for Mental Health should be cut by 50%.

And so Community Psychiatry struggles to this day to define itself, decide what it wants to accomplish, and (in the past 10 years) squirms under ever-decreasing budgets while being saddled with more and more mandates about the details of services that will be provided and more community demands to keep the "normal" citizens safe from "crazy" people because "you never know what they might do," despite all the evidence that the vast majority of the risk of violence comes from family or friends, or from use/selling of alcohol and illicit drugs.

I believe we are slowly moving toward a true integration with the rest of medicine, as evidenced by the increasing frequency of psychiatry/MH clinics located within ambulatory medicine clinic buildings. It seems this trend is actually more rapid in rural settings. More evidence is coming in about the utility of such integration. Just a few days ago, I read the Journal Watch summary of research demonstrating the utility of Case Managers helping psychiatric patients navigate the Primary Care medical system.
As an example of the progress toward medical/community psychiatry integration, in my residency graduating class, the resident who shared the annual award for Commitment to Community Psychiatry through work/advocacy at various homeless MH clinics was the same one who won the award for outstanding resident in the Psychiatry / Primary Care Clinic where VA patients with severe and persistent mental illness had their psychiatric and general medical needs provided in the very same clinic.
 
So at the risk of violating the spirit of the thread by bringing up an issue somewhat anathema to the idea of community psychiatry . . . what are the typical pay ranges for "community psychiatry"?
 
So at the risk of violating the spirit of the thread by bringing up an issue somewhat anathema to the idea of community psychiatry . . . what are the typical pay ranges for "community psychiatry"?
Lets just say that going from private inpatient psych hospital to community clinic dropped my pay about 15-20%
 
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