Community service for MD/PhD admissions

[premed2671]

Hey everyone!

So right now I am deciding between applying to PhD programs this fall or MD/PhD programs next summer. I just graduated from college, have substantial research experience (first-author pub, Goldwater Scholar, other awards), and currently work full-time in a lab right now for my gap year.

While looking at potential labs for my PhD, I realized that almost all of the PIs I’m interested in working with are MD/PhDs and conduct amazing work based on their clinical work and experiences (even if they only do clinic 2 times/month). That honestly sounds like a dream job, but I am going to be shadowing some doctors this summer to learn more about it. I might also volunteer a couple times per month at a free clinic to see how I feel around patients.

Given that I have research, leadership, some shadowing, and sufficient clinical volunteering… will I struggle to get accepted to a MD/PhD program without a ton of community service (nonclinical)?

I want to make sure I know my chances before I completely head down this path

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Other info:

I do have extracurriculars outside of research and I really gave my heart to these activities:

1. teaching assistant (top TA award)
2. leadership for my school’s Women in STEM club (I helped revamp the whole program after people came back in-person)
3. orchestrated and planned an entire school-sponsored forum to raise awareness for mental health

I have random service activities (volunteer peer tutor, ESL tutor for adults) from college but nothing long-term so not a lot of hours there (maybe 50 hrs?). I don’t think I’m not a service-oriented person but I’ve just been busy haha

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[Doctor-S]

Hey everyone!

So right now I am deciding between applying to PhD programs this fall or MD/PhD programs next summer. I just graduated from college, have substantial research experience (first-author pub, Goldwater Scholar, other awards), and currently work full-time in a lab right now for my gap year.

While looking at potential labs for my PhD, I realized that almost all of the PIs I’m interested in working with are MD/PhDs and conduct amazing work based on their clinical work and experiences (even if they only do clinic 2 times/month). That honestly sounds like a dream job, but I am going to be shadowing some doctors this summer to learn more about it. I might also volunteer a couple times per month at a free clinic to see how I feel around patients.

Given that I have research, leadership, some shadowing, and sufficient clinical volunteering… will I struggle to get accepted to a MD/PhD program without a ton of community service (nonclinical)?

In addition to substantive research experience, is your academic record (e.g., GPA) and MCAT acceptable for MD-PhD programs?

MD-PhD programs are focused on producing physician-scientists who are passionate about medicine and science. Although institution-dependent, non-clinical community service is not a significant factor for admission to MD-PhD programs. MD-PhD graduates often become medical practitioners and faculty members at AMCs.

 

[premed2671]

In addition to substantive research experience, is your academic record (e.g., GPA) and MCAT acceptable for MD-PhD programs?

MD-PhD programs are focused on producing physician-scientists who are passionate about medicine and science. Although institution-dependent, non-clinical community service is not a significant factor for admission to MD-PhD programs. MD-PhD graduates often become medical practitioners and faculty members at AMCs.

Thanks for the response! That’s exactly what I needed to know.

I have a >3.95 GPA. I’m waiting to get more clinical experience to make sure I really want the MD before thinking about the MCAT.

 

[mosquitogfp]

I definitely agree with @Doctor-S , your MCAT/GPA is more likely to truly make or break your application. The fact that you worked as a TA shows that you have leadership/service experience, even though it wasn't "volunteer". Also, you planning that event sounds like it maybe was volunteer-based. For your random service activities, just lump it all together and label it as "service activities around the ____ community", and give an adequate description of the different specific things you did. Just tell your unique story and things will fall into place.

One thing I learned from last cycle is that MD/PhD ADCOMs and interviewers truly loveeee talking about research (only topic for 80% of my interviews). It sounds like you have great research experience as long as you can back it up!

 

[oopsiedoopsie]

In addition to substantive research experience, is your academic record (e.g., GPA) and MCAT acceptable for MD-PhD programs?

MD-PhD programs are focused on producing physician-scientists who are passionate about medicine and science. Although institution-dependent, non-clinical community service is not a significant factor for admission to MD-PhD programs. MD-PhD graduates often become medical practitioners and faculty members at AMCs.

in terms of community service that includes something like science, eg. STEM outreach, would that still not be super significant? also with activities that are considered leadership experiences either in medicine or science, how are those viewed by the admissions committee?
basically I'm trying to figure out what makes an ideal MSTP candidate - other than someone who has the research/clinical experiences/grades - especially for top tier programs

 

[Doctor-S]

in terms of community service that includes something like science, eg. STEM outreach, would that still not be super significant? also with activities that are considered leadership experiences either in medicine or science, how are those viewed by the admissions committee?
basically I'm trying to figure out what makes an ideal MSTP candidate - other than someone who has the research/clinical experiences/grades - especially for top tier programs

Your GPA of >3.95 is competitive; your (future) MCAT will be important for MD-PhD programs.

The ECs you have described in your original post are favorable. However, your ECs are not going to be the focal point of your application to MD-PhD programs. Presumably, you're participating in ECs because you enjoy those activities; if you were applying solely to MD programs, you would list the same ECs. By the way, the definition of "super significant" is subjective. One MD-PhD adcom might consider a particular EC to be very significant, but another adcom might not consider it to be significant at all. Just saying.

MD-PhD programs focus on significant research experience because MD-PhD programs are training/producing physician-scientists. You will be expected to discuss your research experience in your MD-PhD application, and in interviews. Did you also have some sort of a leadership role in your research experience? If yes, that's good. Did you obtain teaching experience (because MD-PhDs also participate in academic teaching roles)? If yes, that's good, too.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Hi everyone,

To ask the MD/PhD adcoms here, I will say that for many MD/DO/health adcoms, the EC's are looked at where tutoring/teaching is not really "community service." It is preferred that individuals have community service where one can make a direct impact on an individual in need: food pantry/delivery, shelter work, job placement services, or immersive years (Peace Corps, Americorps, etc.). I warn applicants that tutoring in STEM courses is really overrepresented among medical school applicants, so for MD/DO/prehealth adcoms, its value is not as high. Also, tutoring/teaching shows me one's scientific competency along with research and science communication/advocacy [AAAS Vision and Change].

I point this out because the processes to get someone to an MD/PhD review differ greatly among schools (from what I know) in that some processes will review for MD first before passing the application forward, so the EC's do matter to get beyond this gate. It may be less emphasized once it hits the MD/PhD screeners but unless certain schools have policies about how to handle the MD/PhD applicants, I think they have to get through the initial MD screen first.

This is the source of the confusion about EC's for MSTP (or similar) applicants. Can anyone clarify based on your own processes about how EC's are treated if you happen to know? If this has already been brought up, I apologize.

 

[Doctor-S]

Hi everyone,

To ask the MD/PhD adcoms here, I will say that for many MD/DO/health adcoms, the EC's are looked at where tutoring/teaching is not really "community service." It is preferred that individuals have community service where one can make a direct impact on an individual in need: food pantry/delivery, shelter work, job placement services, or immersive years (Peace Corps, Americorps, etc.). I warn applicants that tutoring in STEM courses is really overrepresented among medical school applicants, so for MD/DO/prehealth adcoms, its value is not as high. Also, tutoring/teaching shows me one's scientific competency along with research and science communication/advocacy [AAAS Vision and Change].

I point this out because the processes to get someone to an MD/PhD review differ greatly among schools (from what I know) in that some processes will review for MD first before passing the application forward, so the EC's do matter to get beyond this gate. It may be less emphasized once it hits the MD/PhD screeners but unless certain schools have policies about how to handle the MD/PhD applicants, I think they have to get through the initial MD screen first.

This is the source of the confusion about EC's for MSTP (or similar) applicants. Can anyone clarify based on your own processes about how EC's are treated if you happen to know? If this has already been brought up, I apologize.

When multiple MSTP applicants are very similar to each other because they all have shown strong evidence of: (1) demonstrable research experience, and (2) competitive MCAT, and (3) competitive GPA, I often consider them to be equally-qualified applicants, based initially on those three factors.

When that occurs, I like to carefully sift through the field of "equally-qualified" MD-PhD applicants, and narrow the larger pool down to a smaller pool of the "very best" qualified MD-PhD applicants.

To do this, I often look for evidence of other things, such as meaningful ECs, strong leadership experience, maturity and character, strong soft skills, etc., on an individual case-by-case basis. However, no matter what, the applicant must have substantive research experience because MSTP is focused on training physician-scientists who are passionate about medicine and science.