Community surgery residency application...

[hemoccult]

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In conversing with residents regarding the process of applying to and interviewing at residencies, it has come to my understanding that many of the community surgery programs select those who have done away rotations at that program.

Sure, it makes perfect sense to select someone you are familiar with. Why go out on a limb with the chance of getting screwed later. Additionally, if someone put forth the effort to rotate through the community program, it makes sense to "reward" them for their work.

I was wondering, with hopes of enlightenment from those who may have additional insight, if it is even worth my time to apply to any community programs as I will not have rotated through any of them. Would it be a waste of time and cash (discounting credentials, board scores, and other factors being equal)?

Additionally, I'm sure not every community program operates in this manner; however, is it a somewhat fair generalization to assume that a decent number of them function this way.

 

[womansurg]

We always seemed to match one person of the three based on our personal experiences with him/her. Sometimes we ended up compromising the numbers a bit in that person's favor. So an applicant could get ranked highly with a lower USMLE scores - say, 215 - if we knew and loved him/her.

The other two folks were usually picked soley on paper: high scores, grades, references.

 

[hemoccult]

Thanks for the reply. Your program has been highly recommended as an excellent "wouldn't even know the difference between your program and an academic program" training program.

As you said, if you know and love someone, how can you leave them "out in the cold" over an unknown who may only look better on paper.

Any other thoughts on this matter or other experiences would be greatly appreciated.

And by the way womansurg...how is your new job going out in the west? Hope all is well and thanks for the reply.

 

[md03]

It's my understanding that the same may very well apply to some of the big name academic programs, such as MGH. I was told during my interview there that they tend to give preference to Harvard students or those who did electives there.

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by hemoccult
And by the way womansurg...how is your new job going out in the west? Hope all is well and thanks for the reply.

You're very welcome. What a nice reply to my comments!

I won't start work until the first of August, so I'll be sure to keep folks updated on my trials and tribulations as a new surgeon. The scheduling desk called and wanted to know what days I'd be in clinic - as they had patients they needed to schedule. O wow 🙂 .

 

[Sachin]

I wouldn't say that is absolutely true, but sure, rotating at a program can help.. i know of some programs where around 3-4 of the residents (of 40 or so between prelims and categorical) had rotated prior.. if you know of a program that you may be interested in, i would rotate there and work hard and it could both hurt and help your application.. but, it will also help you decide if you like the program or not..

Sachin

 

[Surgdude]

I have to echo one of Sachin's sentiments regarding rotating at a program in which you may be interested. I am sure that many programs have had the same experience. We had a student rotate with us who was AOA and scored >235 on both Step 1 and 2, but when he rotated at our program, he hamstrung himself by not appearing to want to work too hard, and by spending too much time on the internet, usually sending emails and surfing the web. You have to give them a reason to want you, to make you stick out from the other unknowns on the interview trail.

One other recommendation. When you are interviewing, I would recommend not saying "academic versus community program", as that essentially implies that community programs are not academic in any way.

By their very nature, they are centers that foster academia. No, most of them do not have staff whose main job is doing research. No, there won't be anywhere near the amout of bench research going on. However, many of the community programs work very hard to have good conferences, to teach the residents in the OR (often with a larger case volume), in the clinics (often with a larger number of patients per day), and on the floor (often with a larger patient census). Also, there is clinical research that is done at many programs.

At my program, we have staff who are actively enrolling patients into the NSABP breast trials. We have a pediatric surgeon who is pushing the current applications of robotic surgery in the pediatric surgical population and presents regularly at conferences and submits papers for publication. We have CTV, vascular, trauma, and transplant surgeons who are active in clinical research. I guess my main point is, don't offend the program director and interviewing staff by implying that community programs aren't academic--just refer to university programs as 'university programs' when they ask you where else you are looking.