Last edited:
commute in residency... really long one... need input
- Thread starter cards99
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Messages
- 4,303
- Reaction score
- 22,296
Only the two of you can figure out what is best for you. Obviously there are no good options as you either need to live apart (and double your living expenses) or deal with a long commute. However, a commute will be extremely hard on both of you. There is an active thread in the general residency forum with a discussion of some of the sacrifices involved in commuting.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 597
- Reaction score
- 234
A commute that long is time-consuming, expensive and possibly dangerous (if you are driving when tired). In particular, don't underestimate the costs of running two reliable cars 60,000 miles a year just to get to work and back.
Are there any public transport options? It seems unlikely, but depending where you are it could be worth checking out coach and train availability.
Your best bet might be one of you setting up home near work, and the other in lodgings near work with a plan of spending time off together at home.
Are there any public transport options? It seems unlikely, but depending where you are it could be worth checking out coach and train availability.
Your best bet might be one of you setting up home near work, and the other in lodgings near work with a plan of spending time off together at home.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 22,020
- Reaction score
- 19,148
From a strictly financial standpoint, this is a horrible idea. You're looking at 240 miles a day, 6 days a week. Based on the data from 2013 published by AAA, that's going to cost you about $750 per week in vehicle costs alone (gas, maintenance, repairs, etc). Now pay yourself $10 an hour for the 5 hours each day that you spend driving and your plan costs about $1000 a week.
So basically, you're going to be spending almost all of one salary on commuting. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you.
So basically, you're going to be spending almost all of one salary on commuting. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you.
Can you provide a link to the AAA data?
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 22,020
- Reaction score
- 19,148
Do they not have Teh Googelz on your internets?
It's here (warning...PDF). I used the composite sedan average of 51.9 cents/mile given 20K miles/yr to make the calculations. I didn't adjust for anything else, like the fact that the average price of gas today is ~10% higher than it was when the calculation was made, assumed a reasonable car will be used (like, they're not commuting this distance in a Suburban) or that they're talking about driving almost 70K miles a year just to commute, but it's a good rough guesstimate.
Gosh that's a rough situation. Have you run the numbers on renting a tiny room or something in one persons residency town and then getting a home base in the other? Maybe a colleague has a garage apartment you can crash in overnight or something.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 22,020
- Reaction score
- 19,148
Just to add a practical example (that I've discussed before when this issue came up). I had a classmate in residency who was married to a military EM resident. They matched at sites about the same distance (135 miles). They bought a house 1/3 of the way from our place to his residency site. When she was on wards/ICU rotations, she would rent a room in town and only go home on her day(s) off. When she was on consults or outpatient/elective rotations, she went home every night. When he was doing EM at the Army hospital, his shifts would tend to be in 3-5 day stretches and he would stay on-base and go home on his days off. When he was on off-service rotations (Trauma, ICU, etc), all of which were in a different city even further away from their house, he rented a room as well.
The fact that he had no med school debt as well as a higher residency salary (military residencies pay better than civilian) made this do-able (although still crappy) for them. But, again, if you've got combined income of $100-120K/y and you're spending $45-50K just to drive back and forth...that doesn't seem like a great plan.
The fact that he had no med school debt as well as a higher residency salary (military residencies pay better than civilian) made this do-able (although still crappy) for them. But, again, if you've got combined income of $100-120K/y and you're spending $45-50K just to drive back and forth...that doesn't seem like a great plan.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Messages
- 917
- Reaction score
- 122
I wouldn't do it. My wife and I were 120 miles apart for the last three years (she is a resident and I have been a PhD and 3rd/4th year med student). We have two apartments, about 5-10 minutes from our respective hospitals. It's definitely doable living apart, and we see each other 2-4 weekends/month. There's no way we could have each done a 60 mile commute each day, and her residency wouldn't have allowed it anyway (have to be within a certain distance when on jeopardy, etc.).
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,463
- Reaction score
- 293
When you are on call you have to be within a certain distance of your hospital (as a senior, taking home call). In most fields this is 30 minutes' drive. I have to concur with the others-- rent tiny crappy places in each town and see each other as often as possible. And of course, one of you can try to transfer at the end of your internship.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 6,357
- Reaction score
- 6,148
The IRS says it's closer to $0.55/mile for deduction purposes. More expensive vehicles will be much more than that. The IRS under-estimates simplified deductions in my opinion to minimize deductions.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 6,357
- Reaction score
- 6,148
If it were me, I'd rent two cheaper places near each residency program and just commute to see spouses on days off. That would be cheaper and less stressful on a daily basis.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2013
- Messages
- 908
- Reaction score
- 809
As said, this will financially and emotionally break you. Do not do this. Rent two places close to your respective hospitals and see each other PRN. Should still be able to pull off once a week. Even if you lived together, as both of you are busy residents, you wont be seeing much of each other anyway.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2003
- Messages
- 826
- Reaction score
- 33
I commute 46 miles each way every day, don't do it. It makes you tired, angry, and poor. You miss out on educational opportunities at work too as you are less keen to stay late when you know you have a long drive ahead of you and you can't pop back in if something interesting comes up.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2014
- Messages
- 9
- Reaction score
- 3
This is my spouse's & my situation almost to a T! Honey, is that you posting under cards99? Haha
Lots of good advice here that helped us hear from others in our situation & not feel so alone in being separated. We've decided to do one tiny apt near one hospital & a home base near the other.
Now explaining this to my in-laws is another story. They think I'm being unreasonable & cold (bc I am always to blame, even if my spouse is in full agreement) and don't understand why I "won't just commute...it's only 70 miles one-way."
All arguments (distance, time, $, safety) pale in comparison with being in the same house together every night. I'm neglectful & must secretly WANT to live apart & be separated, otherwise I would "just commute."
Am I a bit snarky? Sorry...sometimes it's nice to have an anonymous place to vent 🙂
Good luck to everyone else in a dual-resident-separation situation!
Lots of good advice here that helped us hear from others in our situation & not feel so alone in being separated. We've decided to do one tiny apt near one hospital & a home base near the other.
Now explaining this to my in-laws is another story. They think I'm being unreasonable & cold (bc I am always to blame, even if my spouse is in full agreement) and don't understand why I "won't just commute...it's only 70 miles one-way."
All arguments (distance, time, $, safety) pale in comparison with being in the same house together every night. I'm neglectful & must secretly WANT to live apart & be separated, otherwise I would "just commute."
Am I a bit snarky? Sorry...sometimes it's nice to have an anonymous place to vent 🙂
Good luck to everyone else in a dual-resident-separation situation!
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2009
- Messages
- 1,002
- Reaction score
- 341
Wow, your in laws sound delightful.
Having a long commute is a terrible idea. Don't do it. Trust me, driving just a mile back home after a night shift feels like a chore, you don't want to be driving on the highway for an hour.
Having a long commute is a terrible idea. Don't do it. Trust me, driving just a mile back home after a night shift feels like a chore, you don't want to be driving on the highway for an hour.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2014
- Messages
- 9
- Reaction score
- 3
Cards, have you decided what you're doing? Are you gonna commute?
Idealistically I agree--you can't put a value on time with your spouse & being together.
Practically though, it makes sense (for us) to live apart. This is where the in-laws think we (I) am wrong. They think no matter what it takes, we should live together. In their minds, anything less is indicative of how I value convenience > my marriage. They just don't get it (sigh).
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2011
- Messages
- 2,048
- Reaction score
- 2,768
If your in-laws live close to your SO's residency that's even more of an incentive to find another place.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6,009
- Reaction score
- 6,720
well tell them your spouse could always commute to YOUR hospital...
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2014
- Messages
- 9
- Reaction score
- 3
Luckily they are in a completely different state than where we'll both be 🙂
They think we should live in middle, which would give us both a 70-mile-one-way commute every day. That's not happening, and I've accepted that they won't accept our decision. Thanks for letting me vent.
Cards99--and anyone else in this situation--make sure both your and your wife's PDs are in the loop. Both our PDs are being cool about making sure our our vacation weeks coincide with each other.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,463
- Reaction score
- 293
Actually, if you have different vacations it'll double the amount of time spent together (though will ix-nay any cool instagram-worthy trips). You hang out at her place on your vacation, she stays with you on hers.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2014
- Messages
- 9
- Reaction score
- 3
We debated back & forth w/that very idea, but ultimately decided for our official vacation time we'd rather have it off together.
As of now, we hope to spend every possible weekend together, and since getting our golden weekends to coincide will be much more difficult, we've planned on doing exactly what you've mentioned.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6,009
- Reaction score
- 6,720
you both get all your weekends off? nice residency!
- Joined
- May 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,527
- Reaction score
- 4,516
I would seriously consider signing a 2-3 month lease and dealing the higher rent, in exchange for having an escape valve if this doesn't work. That way the worst case is that you move and pay some extra rent, rather than that you ruin your respective careers. Also even if you're apart it doesn't necessarily mean you need to be apart for a full 3 years. PGY 2-3 is much easier in most programs than PGY-1.
The big things to worry about are your psychological wellbeing and your reputation in the program. For the first, all I can say is you need to give Internship some time. You might find out that you're life is rougher than you expected and commuting is more of problem than you initially believed. The second is more about how variable the traffic is. Can you really rely on the commute being an hour, or does it turn into a 4 hour commute on a somewhat regular basis? You can't be late, so if there are regular accidents that could mean that you always need to leave several hours early just to ensure that you're never late. That's rough.
Finally, have you talked with your chiefs about doing electives at each others' hospitals? I've been through this and that was my ultimate solution. You might be able to live apart and still spend up to a third of the year together between away rotations and vacation. It would still suck, but it might alter your mental calculus enough to make living apart seem like the better option.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,385
- Reaction score
- 64
Don't do it. I commuted 40 miles each way for the first two years of medical school. It was an hour each way and that was not ideal but doable. It did not affect me academically but I missed out on a lot of social activities with classmates and never had a lot of friends at school and you will likely find this true in residency since you won't want to stay late for social stuff. Also, for one of my rotations this year I commuted 70 miles each way, an hour and a half each way. It was only for a month but it just about killed me. You don't realize how physically and mentally exhausting such a long commute is until you actually try it. If it were a 40 mile commute I'd say maybe but a 60 mile commute, no way.
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2004
- Messages
- 18,899
- Reaction score
- 4,294
No. Because A) that extra 1-2 hours is really an extra 1-2 hours EACH WAY best case scenario when you're driving 120 miles round trip per day, and B) if you're already working 13 hour days on top of that 2-4 hours of driving, you won't have time or energy to hang out with your spouse because you're going to go straight to bed without even passing go in the kitchen to get a snack as soon as you get home, and C) what's to say that you'll be on days when she's on days and vice versa where you'll even be home at the same time?
Seriously, OP, this is such a bad idea that I would totally tear up your rent contract right now and force the two of you to eat the pieces if I could.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2011
- Messages
- 2,048
- Reaction score
- 2,768
I agree with everybody else. You really need to think long and hard about how this is going to affect your moods and general well being for the next 4 years. 2-3 hours of commute each day is going to be hell after working for 13+ hours. Is it worth being together if you're always going to be tired and cross?
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2012
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 75
Have you ever TRIED commuting for an 1hr+ 6 days a week, each day and back? Its AWFUL. And it will be worse and especially dangerous when you are driving home in rush hour traffic at the end of a 28 hr shift or whatever. Plus it's going to expensive..you'll be spending significantly more on gas, car repairs because of wear and tear on your car.. The social aspect that Helen Wheels mentions is real - I had that same problem when I commuted for a 4th year elective. You just can't do anything fun during the week because all your energy is spent on commuting. And you will be sacrificing precious sleep for commuting. Say you work 7-5. means you have to leave the house by 5:30/5:45ish...depending on your morning routine you will have to wake up around 5. Meaning if you want 7-8 hrs of sleep you would have to be in bed by 9pm. But you won't be getting home until 6:15/6:30 anyways. That literally leaves you less than 3 hours to do everything else- eat, STUDY, go to the gym, shower, relax, run errands.
What if there's traffic, accidents, or bridge/tunnel closures or something? The thing about commuting long distances is that it is REALLY unpredictable. And what will you do if there's inclement weather? Hopefully you aren't working in a place where there's lots of snow/ice.
I really think you should follow Parrotfish's advice and sign a temporary 2-3 month lease near your hospital until you really experience intern year and what commuting will be like. Or maybe don't start commuting back and forth until later in your intern year, when you have really gotten used to intern year.
What if there's traffic, accidents, or bridge/tunnel closures or something? The thing about commuting long distances is that it is REALLY unpredictable. And what will you do if there's inclement weather? Hopefully you aren't working in a place where there's lots of snow/ice.
I really think you should follow Parrotfish's advice and sign a temporary 2-3 month lease near your hospital until you really experience intern year and what commuting will be like. Or maybe don't start commuting back and forth until later in your intern year, when you have really gotten used to intern year.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2013
- Messages
- 11,714
- Reaction score
- 27,814
I strongly urge you to reconsider. I think you overestimate how much time you'll actually have at home to be able to spend with each other. When you are at the end of a long shift, the last thing you'll want to do is drive another hour or more to get home. When you get home, you'll collapse in bed and won't be spending anytime with your wife. You would not be able to spend anytime with your fellow residents to get to know each other more since you'll be eager to get out and get home. You won't want to be staying late to finish something up and may end up dumping more on fellow interns. That will not lead to a good working relationship. What if there is home call? You can't do that at all.
Yes, living apart is not fun when you're married, but it's for a short amount of time and you can try to coordinate your schedules to see each other on the weekends as much as possible.
Can you rent something for just a month? That's not very common and likely to be very expensive.
TL;DR - Don't do it, you'll be too tired for quality time and it will affect both you and your wife's work whether you think it will or not.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2008
- Messages
- 4,303
- Reaction score
- 22,296
Nothing much to add to the above except my strong agreeance.
Would echo the point that if either of your fields require home call at any point in the residency you would likely be violating hospital policies by being so far away. My hospital's resident contract has in writing restrictions on how far you can be from the hospital while on home call.
Would echo the point that if either of your fields require home call at any point in the residency you would likely be violating hospital policies by being so far away. My hospital's resident contract has in writing restrictions on how far you can be from the hospital while on home call.
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2006
- Messages
- 4,580
- Reaction score
- 2,795
Remember, sleepy driving is drunk driving.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 8,826
- Reaction score
- 9,080
The thread title asked for input. You got it. Follow it if you want to.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2009
- Messages
- 1,988
- Reaction score
- 2,576
We expect a report in a year detailing the pros and cons.
- Joined
- May 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,527
- Reaction score
- 4,516
To be fair, I do know one couple that did this (that exact distance, terrible traffic area). They only did it for a year and didn't particularly recommend it to anyone, but they neither died nor divorced.
I commute approx. 65 miles one way for work. It sucks. I mean it really, really sucks. The only positive is that I've discovered a bunch of really great podcasts. My suggestion is that one of you gets the "real apartment" and the other just rents a room, super-cheap, in someone's house (like an old couple who are pretty quiet and clean). Driving 60+ miles one way after a long days work? Never again.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2013
- Messages
- 11,714
- Reaction score
- 27,814
Best of luck with that... Give us an update after you try it.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,463
- Reaction score
- 293
The train ride is way better- at least you can read, listen to headphones, sleep... I didn't mind a subway commute in NYC, even if it was 40+ min.
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2012
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 75
True. Commuting is way different when you don't have to pay attention to the road. Best of luck to you OP. You will have to come back and update us!
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 23
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2006
- Messages
- 24,035
- Reaction score
- 49,368
It would suck if there are issues with the train schedule though (you miss your train, it is delayed when you are on your way in), plus the very real possibility of falling asleep on the train and missing your stop (especially during intern year)
D
deleted116380
Hmm, 120 miles a day roundtrip is pretty crazy. Mine is 50-60 miles roundtrip a day depending on which of the hospitals I'm rotating at. Takes less than an hour to get to work early in the mornings (I'm an intern) and usually over an hour in the evenings due to traffic (tons of it in this city) so avg 2 hrs a day commuting. It's do-able for me because I only need to sleep about 5 hours a night so I still have time at home to work out, make dinner, watch TV, etc.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2006
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 18
There's a big difference between a 45 minute commute at 70mph and a 45 minute commute at 15mph on surface roads with lots of stoplights.
The former is psychologically taxing if done everyday, while the latter is just really annoying. The former feels much longer and endless, because it really is much farther away. Also the former is devastating if you live in the northern part of the country and there is snow or severe weather. That 45 minute commute at 70mph is over 2 hours at 25mph, not to mention harrowing in the snow.
We thought about this too for our couples match rank lists, but decided against it. If either of us were injured or worse in a car accident during the commute, we would be living in a world of regret. Your odds of a fatal car crash goes way up the more miles and higher speeds you commute. Add that to being postcall, it's not a trivial risk anymore.
The former is psychologically taxing if done everyday, while the latter is just really annoying. The former feels much longer and endless, because it really is much farther away. Also the former is devastating if you live in the northern part of the country and there is snow or severe weather. That 45 minute commute at 70mph is over 2 hours at 25mph, not to mention harrowing in the snow.
We thought about this too for our couples match rank lists, but decided against it. If either of us were injured or worse in a car accident during the commute, we would be living in a world of regret. Your odds of a fatal car crash goes way up the more miles and higher speeds you commute. Add that to being postcall, it's not a trivial risk anymore.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 15,366
- Reaction score
- 7,666
I agree with this, especially the bolded part.
I moved in with my parents during the last month of residency, because I had already moved out of my old apartment and sent my belongings to my new home, several states away. I went from being 10 miles away from the hospital, to 45 miles away.
That was pretty horrible. The commute took forever, and this was under the BEST conditions you could imagine - June in the northeast, final month of residency (so the seniors were given less call), easy rotation with no late nights and no weekends - although coming home late at night did make it easier, as there was significantly less traffic. By the end of June I was ready to hang it up. I would not recommend it. There were daily traffic jams, there was a ton of construction going on, and it was just a bad experience all around.
I drove around 35 miles as an intern, it was the upper limits of tolerable. Afternoon traffic was horrendous if caught on a bad day. I fell asleep several times post call, thankfully lightly enough to make it home. My wife was close to work. If we had BOTH had that kind of commute it would have been a disaster. I was also a TY with relatively reasonable hours. My bad months were only tolerable knowing they were temporary, and that I was going to be closer to home the following year. I couldn't even imagine *planning* to do that for years.
I have friends that are long and semi-long interest. It's also hard. But I would pick weekends and occasional bonus two hour drive for one to visit to 2-3 hours a day in the car for each of you. That's insane.
I have friends that are long and semi-long interest. It's also hard. But I would pick weekends and occasional bonus two hour drive for one to visit to 2-3 hours a day in the car for each of you. That's insane.
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2008
- Messages
- 40,895
- Reaction score
- 24,840
Just think about the quality of the time that you are going to have together. It's not infrequent that I "merely" work my 13-14 hour shift, drive 5 minutes home and am ready to plop down in bed. You're each going to spend an extra 1.5-2h of commute to be able to say "hi" before you fall into bed? It just seems like a colossal waste of time, energy, and money. It makes more sense to me to live close, get an extra hour or two of sleep each night, and then when you see each other you can really be present rather than daydreaming about sleep.
That said, it seems you already made the decision despite the advice of pretty much everyone in this thread--including the handful of people who have actually done it and said that it was as miserable as it sounds. So best of luck.
That said, it seems you already made the decision despite the advice of pretty much everyone in this thread--including the handful of people who have actually done it and said that it was as miserable as it sounds. So best of luck.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2003
- Messages
- 5,786
- Reaction score
- 913
So, do you want to drive 60 miles a day and never see each other, or drive a few miles each day and never see each other?
