Compensation for new grads to pay off loan?

[studentxx8800]

Hey all, just want to ask the docs here if it’s possible to make 300k+ as new grad in a good size city (Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc)? I will have a total of around 300k in student loan after med school and want to pay it off as quickly as possible. I’m willing to live frugal 3-4 yrs post residency and work like a dog (65+ hrs/wk) during these years to pay it off. My only condition is that I can’t tolerate rural areas and want to be in a city. Is this a possibility? Thank you all

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yes

 

[studentxx8800]

Yes

Thank you! Is it a common thing to do or I’ll have to be extra proactive to seek opportunities for it?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Thank you! Is it a common thing to do or I’ll have to be extra proactive to seek opportunities for it?

You won't get a starting salary that high, but once you build your practice it's very doable.

Moonlighting can help as well.

 

[betamale]

Hey all, just want to ask the docs here if it’s possible to make 300k+ as new grad in a good size city (Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc)? I will have a total of around 300k in student loan after med school and want to pay it off as quickly as possible. I’m willing to live frugal 3-4 yrs post residency and work like a dog (65+ hrs/wk) during these years to pay it off. My only condition is that I can’t tolerate rural areas and want to be in a city. Is this a possibility? Thank you all

180-200/hr hospitalist shifts...you'll pay it off in 1 yr

 

[studentxx8800]

180-200/hr hospitalist shifts...you'll pay it off in 1 yr

Are there really opportunities for FM doc to work as Hospitalist in big city for that kind of money? I haven’t heard of that before. I was thinking more of urgent care as a way to pick up extra money on the side

 

[betamale]

Are there really opportunities for FM doc to work as Hospitalist in big city for that kind of money? I haven’t heard of that before. I was thinking more of urgent care as a way to pick up extra money on the side

You're a med student. You don't know a lot of things

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You're a med student. You don't know a lot of things

I, on the other hand, am not and I haven't seen that kind of money in big cities for FM hospitalists.

 

[Splenda88]

I, on the other hand, am not and I haven't seen that kind of money in big cities for FM hospitalists.

I have seen it in the southeast. I know someone who is getting 250/hr night shifts. That person is an IM doc.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I have seen it in the southeast. I know someone who is getting 250/hr night shifts. That person is an IM doc.

I, on the other hand, am not and I haven't seen that kind of money in big cities for FM hospitalists.

 

[bronx43]

As VA said, you can reasonably get to 300k+ a few years in once you have built up a healthy practice.

But out the gate? You can't expect anything like that in a big city. Location, money, work load. In this day and age, you can only pick one.

 

[bronx43]

I have seen it in the southeast. I know someone who is getting 250/hr night shifts. That person is an IM doc.

Even for IM hospitalists, 250/hr night shift is hard to find in big city.

 

[Splenda88]

Even for IM hospitalists, 250/hr night shift is hard to find in big city.

It's hard... But I know someone who is getting that right now in a big city. Most people should expect $150-200(max)/hr.

 

[studentxx8800]

As VA said, you can reasonably get to 300k+ a few years in once you have built up a healthy practice.

But out the gate? You can't expect anything like that in a big city. Location, money, work load. In this day and age, you can only pick one.

That's a bit depressing...especially with something like FM which has a huge demand. Anyway, thanks for the insight. I appreciate it

 

[bronx43]

That's a bit depressing...especially with something like FM which has a huge demand. Anyway, thanks for the insight. I appreciate it

Depressing? I wouldn’t look at it this way. Money out of the gates is not necessarily money 5 or 10 years down the road. I can confirm that in my group, the highest earners are NOT the people that you think make a lot straight out of training.

 

[Lurts]

That's a bit depressing...especially with something like FM which has a huge demand. Anyway, thanks for the insight. I appreciate it

Yeah, given the running notion amongst med students that family docs are lucky to break 200k in their career, the fact that you can fairly easily make 300k+ anywhere in the country once you’re established in what I would consider to be a true lifestyle specialty is golden.

 

[Splenda88]

Only in medicine making 300k+/yr can be depressing...

 

[studentxx8800]

Depressing? I wouldn’t look at it this way. Money out of the gates is not necessarily money 5 or 10 years down the road. I can confirm that in my group, the highest earners are NOT the people that you think make a lot straight out of training.

Oh sorry for not being more clear, depressing more in terms of you can only choose one of the three (money, location, and workload) I totally get the need for the grind when you first start out to build up your practice. Thanks again for the perspective

 

[studentxx8800]

Only in medicine making 300k+/yr I can be depressing...

That's not really what I meant if you read my previous post my goal is to make 300+ so I would be ecstatic to be able to make that much but I understand that I need to have a more realistic expectation now even if I plan to work really hard out of the gate

 

[cabinbuilder]

You are better off working somewhere super rural to make money as hospitalist or ER coverage in a 2-3 bed ER. Go where they are desperate for help and will pay a lot. Most of those small places it's stabilized and ship and the census is low.

 

[Roxas]

Only in medicine making 300k+/yr can be depressing...

I realize the OP clarified that's not what they meant.

However, yes it's depressing knowing that when I'm through with residency I'll be 34. If I'm lucky, have my loans paid off by 40. It's depressing knowing I spent my 20's and 30's studying/working late and on weekends. All the while watching my friends, some of whom making 6 figures since their early 20's, living their lives and spending time with their kids. So I don't think there's any shame in wanting to maximize compensation after everything we've been through to try and get a little earlier jump on life.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I realize the OP clarified that's not what they meant.

However, yes it's depressing knowing that when I'm through with residency I'll be 34. If I'm lucky, have my loans paid off by 40. It's depressing knowing I spent my 20's and 30's studying/working late and on weekends. All the while watching my friends, some of whom making 6 figures since their early 20's, living their lives and spending time with their kids. So I don't think there's any shame in wanting to maximize compensation after everything we've been through to try and get a little earlier jump on life.

As @Goro would say, show me the gun that was pointed at your head and forced you to go into medicine.

Sent from my SM-G973U using SDN mobile

 

[Roxas]

As @Goro would say, show me the gun that was pointed at your head and forced you to go into medicine.

Sent from my SM-G973U using SDN mobile

He's also not a physician.

Never claimed there was a gun. Just pointing out there is nothing wrong with wanting to maximize our compensation.

 

[AMEHigh]

I realize the OP clarified that's not what they meant.

However, yes it's depressing knowing that when I'm through with residency I'll be 34. If I'm lucky, have my loans paid off by 40. It's depressing knowing I spent my 20's and 30's studying/working late and on weekends. All the while watching my friends, some of whom making 6 figures since their early 20's, living their lives and spending time with their kids. So I don't think there's any shame in wanting to maximize compensation after everything we've been through to try and get a little earlier jump on life.

I really don’t think the path through medicine is all that depressing. We’re pretty much guaranteed a job and a well paying one. There are plenty of people who work truly crappy jobs for little pay and little security. These days even standard "desk" jobs people are working evenings and weekends and expected to be on their email 24/7. There are teachers with masters degrees making 40k.

I worked for a few years before I started med school and I loved loved the schedule of med school compared to working. I was laughing when all the people who went straight through from undergrad would complain about med school classes. Studying really isn’t that bad in the grand scheme of things.

I think it’s all about perspective!

 

[Goro]

He's also not a physician.

Never claimed there was a gun. Just pointing out there is nothing wrong with wanting to maximize our compensation.

I own a house, or rather ....the Bank still owns it, I have to pay a mortgage. I know what t's like to carry a six figure debt. I also made the choice to buy instead of rent. I also have a salary that is at least one half of the median for an FM doctor. So cry me a river.

 

[Roxas]

I own a house, or rather ....the Bank still owns it, I have to pay a mortgage. I know what t's like to carry a six figure debt. I also made the choice to buy instead of rent. I also have a salary that is at least one half of the median for an FM doctor. So cry me a river.

All of which has nothing to do with why I replied to the OP.

Cool story though.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I realize the OP clarified that's not what they meant.

However, yes it's depressing knowing that when I'm through with residency I'll be 34. If I'm lucky, have my loans paid off by 40. It's depressing knowing I spent my 20's and 30's studying/working late and on weekends. All the while watching my friends, some of whom making 6 figures since their early 20's, living their lives and spending time with their kids. So I don't think there's any shame in wanting to maximize compensation after everything we've been through to try and get a little earlier jump on life.

If you find all of that depressing, why'd you do it?

 

[Roxas]

I really don’t think the path through medicine is all that depressing. We’re pretty much guaranteed a job and a well paying one. There are plenty of people who work truly crappy jobs for little pay and little security. These days even standard "desk" jobs people are working evenings and weekends and expected to be on their email 24/7. There are teachers with masters degrees making 40k.

I worked for a few years before I started med school and I loved loved the schedule of med school compared to working. I was laughing when all the people who went straight through from undergrad would complain about med school classes. Studying really isn’t that bad in the grand scheme of things.

I think it’s all about perspective!

It's a good thing we have saintly men like @Goro to remind all those people that no one put a gun to their head as well.


All bickering aside, I think my tone has been entirely misread. I've been pretty vocal to pretty much everyone, including on sdn, that I love my job, even as an FM intern. I've yet to have a day where I'm not excited as I drive to work. I was more responding to what I interpreted as a tone that we as family medicine physicians are overpaid and should just take what we get. Maybe that was not Splenda's intent. However he/she wouldn't be the first person to suggest that physicians as a whole are overpaid. I was merely suggesting that while it seems like (insert whatever salary figure) is a lot of money to a lot of people, that money does not come without a price. And unless I'm mistaken my generation of emerging physicians is facing a debt to income ratio never before seen in this profession.

 

[Roxas]

And can we not agree that this whole "gun to the head" thing is a stupid cousin to the fallacy of false consolation?

"Oh your wife miscarried? No one put a gun to your head to try and conceive children."
"Oh you lost your house in the 2008 recession? No one put a gun to your head to buy a house, idiot."


I don't find that to be terribly constructive. But I digress.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It's a good thing we have saintly men like @Goro to remind all those people that no one put a gun to their head as well.


All bickering aside, I think my tone has been entirely misread. I've been pretty vocal to pretty much everyone, including on sdn, that I love my job, even as an FM intern. I've yet to have a day where I'm not excited as I drive to work. I was more responding to what I interpreted as a tone that we as family medicine physicians are overpaid and should just take what we get. Maybe that was not Splenda's intent. However he/she wouldn't be the first person to suggest that physicians as a whole are overpaid. I was merely suggesting that while it seems like (insert whatever salary figure) is a lot of money to a lot of people, that money does not come without a price. And unless I'm mistaken my generation of emerging physicians is facing a debt to income ratio never before seen in this profession.

While debt is increasing, so is money (at least for FM).

When I graduated in residency in 2013, average FM income per Medscape was 175k. That seems about right as all of my residency classmates who didn't go rural started at 150-170k/year.

In 2018 average income was 219k. This fits as well since new graduates in my area are getting 190-210k starting. So while debt has gone up in that time, so has income (by on average 34k/year.

 

[AMEHigh]

While debt is increasing, so is money (at least for FM).

When I graduated in residency in 2013, average FM income per Medscape was 175k. That seems about right as all of my residency classmates who didn't go rural started at 150-170k/year.

In 2018 average income was 219k. This fits as well since new graduates in my area are getting 190-210k starting. So while debt has gone up in that time, so has income (by on average 34k/year.

I wonder if the 2 are rising proportionally?
I know with undergrad degrees the huge increase in the cost to get a bachelor’s degree certainly has not kept up with the minimal increase in salaries in general.
I do feel sorry for people who have 6 figures of undergrad debt and then 6 figures of med school debt. However, I guess we still come out ahead of law grads for example who can have the same amount of debt but can have jobs starting at 50-80k.

 

[Splenda88]

While debt is increasing, so is money (at least for FM).

When I graduated in residency in 2013, average FM income per Medscape was 175k. That seems about right as all of my residency classmates who didn't go rural started at 150-170k/year.

In 2018 average income was 219k. This fits as well since new graduates in my area are getting 190-210k starting. So while debt has gone up in that time, so has income (by on average 34k/year.

Are they seeing the same # of patients?

 

[Bacchus]

Are they seeing the same # of patients?

I see about 20-24 a day, sometimes a few more. Do well salary wise.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Are they seeing the same # of patients?

Go ask Medscape

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I wonder if the 2 are rising proportionally?
I know with undergrad degrees the huge increase in the cost to get a bachelor’s degree certainly has not kept up with the minimal increase in salaries in general.
I do feel sorry for people who have 6 figures of undergrad debt and then 6 figures of med school debt. However, I guess we still come out ahead of law grads for example who can have the same amount of debt but can have jobs starting at 50-80k.

Probably not on the whole. For state schools, it might be close.

 

[hallowmann]

Probably not on the whole. For state schools, it might be close.

In that same time, the average medical school debt increased by $20k, and while you graduated with subsidized student loans, those behind you graduated with all unsubsidized loans that accrued more interest through med school and residency. This doesn't really get into the significantly increased cost of undergrad tuition in that time. The difference in debt is greater than the difference in salary. That all said, its really not that much of a difference.

I think people are forgetting how sucky residency and especially intern year really is. Its hard to even think about what things will really be like with a salary ~$200k in the midst of it. I'm sure many of us will be happier on the outside when we can actually make dents in loans (instead of putting money in just to watch the total rise slower), save for retirement, and can actually plan and enjoy life a bit more. With that all said, give Roxas a break.

 

[goldsummer]

a lot of jobs also offer loan assistance aside from salary.... the best ive seen is $100,000k over 5 years... or is that not typical?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

In that same time, the average medical school debt increased by $20k, the interest rates increased by 1-2%, and while you graduated with primarily subsidized student loans, those behind you graduated with all unsubsidized loans that accrued far more interest through med school and residency. This doesn't really get into the significantly increased cost of undergrad tuition in that time. The difference in debt is greater than the difference in salary. That all said, its really not that much of a difference.

I think people are forgetting how sucky residency and especially intern year really is. Its hard to even think about what things will really be like with a salary ~$200k in the midst of it. I'm sure many of us will be happier on the outside when we can actually make dents in loans (instead of putting money in just to watch the total rise slower), save for retirement, and can actually plan and enjoy life a bit more. With that all said, give Roxas a break.

Wrong. Interest rates for Stafford Loans were 6.8% when I started med school which is actually less than what it is now (6.079%). Subsidized loans were capped, if I remember correctly, at 5k/year so not really significant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[hallowmann]

Wrong. Interest rates for Stafford Loans were 6.8% when I started med school which is actually less than what it is now (6.079%). Subsidized loans were capped, if I remember correctly, at 5k/year so not really significant in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, fair as well, my early morning brain was reading the undergrad loan interest rates. Edited the post for accuracy. I still don't think its enough to make the overall point incorrect given the $20k higher overall principle and higher cost of undergrad across the board.

 

[crazyboi1993]

Is it possible to make 300k, starting out, and working extra shifts in the ER or doing nursing home?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Is it possible to make 300k, starting out, and working extra shifts in the ER or doing nursing home?

All depends on your contract.

 

[Splenda88]

Is it possible to make 300k, starting out, and working extra shifts in the ER or doing nursing home?

Not in the market yet, but from IM/FM contracts I have seen last and this cycles, 300-325k can easily be made if you work extra... 400k+ might be difficult IMO

 

[Afrin]

When you say to work extra, when do you work extra since in clinic you are already working Monday through Friday, though it might be 1/2 day on Friday. You mean working on the weekend for extra? Where would you work in the weekend, UC probably. How many weekends do I have to work each month for that extra? Working extra on top of Monday through Friday, when would you have day off then?

 

[Lurts]

When you say to work extra, when do you work extra since in clinic you are already working Monday through Friday, though it might be 1/2 day on Friday. You mean working on the weekend for extra? Where would you work in the weekend, UC probably. How many weekends do I have to work each month for that extra? Working extra on top of Monday through Friday, when would you have day off then?

I mean, that’s the trade off of “working extra.” I moonlight as a hospitalist so sometimes I’ll pick up shifts doing ER admissions after clinic, 5-10pm. Sometimes I’ll round or admit on weekends causing me to work 14-21 days straight. All depends on how much free time you want vs how much extra money you want to make.

 

[crazyboi1993]

I plan or working aggressively the first few years, to pay back loans and save, and then relax

 

[rokshana]

Even for IM hospitalists, 250/hr night shift is hard to find in big city.

I have not seen that...rural areas where you do procedures and manage then icu , but 165-185/ hr for the typical hospitalist job for IM...not sure how much lower for FM, but prolly about the same.