Competitive applicants and uncompetitive residencies

[Hurricane]

HUH?! Ummm where are you living, rural Arkansas???

100K isnt crap! That is roughly the starting salary for a kids coming out of college FFS in a ton of fields (IB, CE/EE..even medical device sales is more than that!!!).

After you are paying housing, school loans, etc. You couldnt even raise a family on that. Im single and barely hanging on making 250K! (well okay, Im doing a tad better than the poor house).

To you folks who think 100K is peanuts... WTF kind of lifestyle are you expecting?? My parents made less than that combined, and they have one kid in law school and me with an MD/PhD. And they sent us both to Europe and various other educationally valuable vacations, and provided us with nice enough cars, and whatever else we needed. I mean, we didn't go on uber-expensive ski trips every spring break and strut around in $300 Nieman Marcus sweatpants, but we lived just fine.

I can honestly say that money did not play a part in my decision to choose my specialty (psych). I figure I'll make enough to live comfortably no matter what field I'm in, and doing something I love is worth more than having a some extra dough to buy a Jag (which will always be in the shop anyway!)

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[EctopicFetus]

you have GOT to be pre-med. I haven't met a med student yet that could saddle up on a horse so high.

100% agreed!

I think we do need FMGs... We can resolve this issue by increasing the size of our med school classes which are starting to happen. FMGs dont treat the poor because they are so altruistic, it is a condition of them coming here, we could do the same thing with US med students if we wanted.

Anyone who doesnt think there is a cultural difference is living in another world, I did most of my 3rd yr rotations at inner city Chicago hospitals which were filled mostly with impoverished African Americans and Hispanics (mostly mexicans). Now if you really believe there isnt a language barrier you have no clue. I often acted as the "translator" on my medicine service. There is slang which is common to the US which these guys dont get. Anyhow thats just a point, of course we NEED FMGs since there is a shortage of docs in the US.

As far as the brain drain this is a serious concern and there was a huge article in the New York Times or Wall Street Journal about this. If you dont think this exists you are immensly mistaken. FYI, Cuba sent their docs to Venezuela in exchange for Oil because of their physician shortage.

Lastly sophiejane there is no need to get personal and ASSUME that I am worried about FMGs going into my field. I had offers from some of the best EM programs in the US I will (hopefully) match at one of these top programs. I am not going into IM, Peds or FP because I dont particularly like those fields not because I am afraid of competition.

Check the residents at the top Peds and IM programs.. There may be some FMGS but they are mostly US grads.. Im not gonna say if it is good or bad or whatever but that argument holds no water.

 

[EctopicFetus]

To you folks who think 100K is peanuts... WTF kind of lifestyle are you expecting?? My parents made less than that combined, and they have one kid in law school and me with an MD/PhD. And they sent us both to Europe and various other educationally valuable vacations, and provided us with nice enough cars, and whatever else we needed. I mean, we didn't go on uber-expensive ski trips every spring break and strut around in $300 Nieman Marcus sweatpants, but we lived just fine.

I can honestly say that money did not play a part in my decision to choose my specialty (psych). I figure I'll make enough to live comfortably no matter what field I'm in, and doing something I love is worth more than having a some extra dough to buy a Jag (which will always be in the shop anyway!)

Well keep in mind some of us (like me) will graduate with 275K+ in loans. If I paid that in 10 yrs that would run about 3K per month to start. Of this magical 100K the govt/health insurance takes about 40% so I am left with about 60Kor 5K per month. After I pay my loans I am looking at 2K per month for everything else.. including car, house, food, clothes etc.

Now 100K is decent but there is a huge opportunity cost to go to MD school and residency and as such people expect a pay back. My parents made less than that and did fine but loans are an issue.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I think your assumption is way way off base. In terms of $/hr you are off base. Now you def work more hours doing cards but $ per hour.. I dont think so..
from this site.. we will gather salary info.
http://www.alliedphysicians.com/salary-surveys/physicians/

We will use avg (>3 yrs) info.

Invasive Cards - $395K
Interventional - $468K
NonInvasive - $403K

Derm - 308K

For hours..
http://residency.wustl.edu/
Derm 42
There is no info on that site for Cards..We will assume working 48 weeks a yr (4 weeks off).

but Derm $/hr is $153/hr

For the above fields to have the same $ per hour they would have to work this many weeks

Invasive Cards - 53.8
Interventional - 63.8
NonInvasive - 55.0

So if you want some bang for your buck interventional is where it is at!

Hope this helps with making your decision!

Damn, interventional cards looks really nice.....

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yeah but keep in mind for ALL the salaries that as someone mentioned before the govt is gonna get em down one way or another. You wont see people making 500K for too much longer IMO.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Yeah but keep in mind for ALL the salaries that as someone mentioned before the govt is gonna get em down one way or another. You wont see people making 500K for too much longer IMO.

*Mutters under breath* F--k.

Just kidding....I'll be happy with anything over 200K. I'm more interested in a good lifestyle (do my work and leave, that's why I like the thought of EM) than I am in making filthy amounts of cash.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Praet, obviously we both are on the EM board. Those are some decent salaries the boys (and gals) are bringing in.. I cant wait to be done. Plus you get to really help people who are really in need and make a nice living. Thats my favorite thing.. oh and no call and of course the chicks since they think I am like george clooney (not in looks but in profession)! Thats why my wife married me

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Yup....the only down side is the fact that there's OB/GYN work involved with it.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yup....the only down side is the fact that there's OB/GYN work involved with it.

Totally true but it is a small part of your practice if you want it to be.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I definitely want it to be. The other major selling point for EM is the option to get into EMS medical control.....

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yeah EMS is HUGE.. Pitt is supposed to be great in this field. When you get there you can find out who else is big time. I get the impression UCLA Harbor is too but I hasnt heard much from others.. Good luck man!

 

[Mumpu]

Poety, regarding your comments on med students being accepting and non-judgemental until you saw SDN, I'm going to make a loaded statement:

Judging by the interview threads, SDN user base is *very* heavily biased towards top of the line East Coast programs.

 

[sophiejane]

you have GOT to be pre-med. I haven't met a med student yet that could saddle up on a horse so high.

Gosh, you caught me.

Actually, I'm an 8th grader. Hopefully one day I'll be as cool as you guys...maybe some day...

 

[EctopicFetus]

Sophie,

I think you and I have reached a level of understanding, or at least I hope we did..

 

[Poety]

Poety, regarding your comments on med students being accepting and non-judgemental until you saw SDN, I'm going to make a loaded statement:

Judging by the interview threads, SDN user base is *very* heavily biased towards top of the line East Coast programs.

Hey, hey hey, I'm an east coaster!! pfftt Not all of us are "top o the line" I'm your typical midsized sedan

 

[8744]

The OP needs to do what will be the most lucrative. Pediatric Emergency Medicine or cardiology, both mentioned by him fields he finds interesting are also both very high paying specialties so he's in luck.

Let's not discount the importance of money. Speaking as a PGY-1 I can say that I am tired of being poor. (Not to mention how my long-suffering wife feels about it.)

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I'm actually leaning towards Peds EM.....have been for sometime because of the challenge of it....

 

[scalpel007]

As I am reading this post, the question of income has been debated back and forth. Honestly, there is absolutely nothing in trying to establish financial freedom from your practice. For those of you who don't think so, when your first student loan payments start coming through, or that nice old lady that you tried to help who is now suing you (or shall I say extorting your malpractice insurance who realize it is cheaper to settle as opposed to fight a case) and your malpractice gets to the astronomical levels it is some states, you will think differently.

However, I think most of us (including myself) miss the big picture about income and wealth, which are totally different items. Physicians are infamous about having high incomes but low net worth. Essentially, how we do financially has little to do with how much you make in salary or income. It has everything to do with what you do with the money you make. In phoenix, some of the wealthiest physicians are FPs. How? By investing in real estate, by investing in surgery centers, by living within your means, learning to invest in the stock market, learning to or paying somebody to maximize your passive income. I realize I am on a soapbox here, but we really learn so much medicine but dont learn a god damn thing about how to manage a practice, how to manage debt, etc. It is worthwhile.

Long story short, you should take into account at some level the potential for income in what you do. But don't be delusional to thinking that if your income is high, you will be able to maintain it without properly investing it. After all, how many stupid lottery winners have we read about who are now bankrupt? Just my two cents . . .

 

[Poety]

As I am reading this post, the question of income has been debated back and forth. Honestly, there is absolutely nothing in trying to establish financial freedom from your practice. For those of you who don't think so, when your first student loan payments start coming through, or that nice old lady that you tried to help who is now suing you (or shall I say extorting your malpractice insurance who realize it is cheaper to settle as opposed to fight a case) and your malpractice gets to the astronomical levels it is some states, you will think differently.

However, I think most of us (including myself) miss the big picture about income and wealth, which are totally different items. Physicians are infamous about having high incomes but low net worth. Essentially, how we do financially has little to do with how much you make in salary or income. It has everything to do with what you do with the money you make. In phoenix, some of the wealthiest physicians are FPs. How? By investing in real estate, by investing in surgery centers, by living within your means, learning to invest in the stock market, learning to or paying somebody to maximize your passive income. I realize I am on a soapbox here, but we really learn so much medicine but dont learn a god damn thing about how to manage a practice, how to manage debt, etc. It is worthwhile.

Long story short, you should take into account at some level the potential for income in what you do. But don't be delusional to thinking that if your income is high, you will be able to maintain it without properly investing it. After all, how many stupid lottery winners have we read about who are now bankrupt? Just my two cents . . .

and btw, can someone loan me 3K please? I really don't wanna take out another loan

 

[Sanman]

Wow, there are some really dumb responses in this thread. Alright first an FYI about FMG's. The reason they are less competitive than AMG's is purely fiscal. The gov't pays hospitals X amount of dollars for every AMG in residency for a certain number of years. It pays less for FMGs and there are generally visa issues to deal with. Hence, it makes FMGs a second class citizen because they are less profitable and more trouble. So, all who think they are they are better than FMGs, get over yourselves. Your uncle sam has been greasing the wheels. Second, the richest doctor I know is an FMG and in primary care. He makes high 7 to low 8 figures annually. I also know a few others who make over a half million. The truth of the matter is that no matter who you are and where you graduated from, the business of medicine treats you all the same. Medicare doesn't care if you were top of your class at harvard or bottom of your class at Ross, ir reimburses the same. Every specialty thinks they are the best, period. Derms are just pimple poppers to surgeons and need to practice REAL medicine. Surgeons have no lives outside of med. and weren't good enough to get into derm if you ask a derm. Every specialty is this way, so are academics and private practice. You don't think the academic at harvard is laughing at the private practice guy because he was smarter. And you don't think the private practice guy is laughing cause he didn't try as hard and makes more money. Figure out what is important to you and live your life by those goals.

To the OP, I understand the idea of feeling overqualified for something and believing that it is a bit of a waste of those grades and that you could have been socializing/enjoying life more and ended up in the same place. However, my advice is to find a specialty you like and can enjoy, having good grades and networking gives you choices. You can be successful at any specialty, if you go into something more competitive you will not have as many choices. If I were you. I would choose to do IM (if that is what you enjoy), and use my hard work to secure a position in the field that is respected, perhaps less malignant, and in a nice area of the country. Don't discount quality of life in residency, it can vary greatly between programs. However, you may enjoy prestige and accomplishment more than quality of life. Those are your decisions to make. Nobody can tell you what you will come to regret, it all depends on how happy you end up.

Ohh and scalpel007, great post!

 

[EctopicFetus]

Second, the richest doctor I know is an FMG and in primary care. He makes high 7 to low 8 figures annually. I also know a few others who make over a half million.

He makes between 7-12 million?

The truth of the matter is that no matter who you are and where you graduated from, the business of medicine treats you all the same.

While this is 100% true one aspect of the business which is different if a FP or EM sutures someone he gets X dollars, but is a plastic surgeon does the EXACT same suture job he gets X plus some percentage!

However, my advice is to find a specialty you like and can enjoy, having good grades and networking gives you choices.

I think everyone agrees on this!

Lastly I did a 4th yr derm rotation at a private practice (For the record the guy was super busy and making $$$$), he asked me if Derm was still competitive, and I said it is one of the most competitive fields. He remarked to me that it was a shame since it didnt require superb intellect and he thought the smart docs should go into IM FWIW.

While it is totally true that the US reimburses hospitals less for FMGs they still get plenty of $$$ so it is better for them to fill than to remain unfilled just for the record!

 

[LADoc00]

To you folks who think 100K is peanuts... WTF kind of lifestyle are you expecting?? My parents made less than that combined, and they have one kid in law school and me with an MD/PhD. And they sent us both to Europe and various other educationally valuable vacations, and provided us with nice enough cars, and whatever else we needed. I mean, we didn't go on uber-expensive ski trips every spring break and strut around in $300 Nieman Marcus sweatpants, but we lived just fine.

I can honestly say that money did not play a part in my decision to choose my specialty (psych). I figure I'll make enough to live comfortably no matter what field I'm in, and doing something I love is worth more than having a some extra dough to buy a Jag (which will always be in the shop anyway!)

You are confused.
100K pretax is 50K post tax when you consider federal income, state income and sales tax. Then take another 12-15k for student loan payments out of the equation, wanna live in a house?? How about another 2K per month for mortgage payments, prop taxes...and that is a crap house or even a dumpy condo, what about utilities? You like warm showers? You like heat and ac? That stuff COSTS money last time I checked too. You like to drive? A jag payment is easily 800-900/month with insurance. What about gas? You like gas? Uhoh, no food, you ran out of $$$, good luck with pysch and I hope you can stay near your ideal weight solely on free drug rep lunches!!

 

[EctopicFetus]

LaDOc dont forget Social Security (up to about 95K) is 6.2% and Medicare is 1.45%.. Then how about retirement because that $$ you are putting into Social Security prob wont be there when you retire.

Oh and 2K for housing isnt much.. a 300K mortgage is a mortgage payment of about $1800, property taxes of about 250 per month..

I dont know where you guys on this thread live but thats not much in ANY major metropolitan area. I am staying at my buddies house in LA and he has 1400 sq ft in a decent (not great) neighborhood and he told me it is prob worth 500-550K!!!! That would be a mtg payment of about 3k-3.5K assuming you mtg that amount!

 

[sacrament]

If you're attending DID say something to that affect, which I highly DOUBT, then wouldn't you have presumed this guy has some inferiority complex?

I wouldn't doubt it too much, I hear stuff like that all the time. Awhile back when I was speaking with our chair of surgery, he told me that I would be a great surgeon and that I should apply to their program. He said, "And I don't just say that to anybody, trust me. I get some less-than-stellar students who come to me wanting to do surgery. I direct them down the hall to Family Medicine."

 

[Blade28]

God this thread is turning into a disaster. Haven't heard from the OP in a while either.

I'm going to echo the advice given by others - pursue the field that you love, and are passionate about. Lifestyle obviously plays into it, and can't be ignored, but for god's sake, don't worry about what other docs will think of your residency program/fellowship/"prestige factor."

 

[Poety]

I wouldn't doubt it too much, I hear stuff like that all the time. Awhile back when I was speaking with our chair of surgery, he told me that I would be a great surgeon and that I should apply to their program. He said, "And I don't just say that to anybody, trust me. I get some less-than-stellar students who come to me wanting to do surgery. I direct them down the hall to Family Medicine."

Ugg, thats just distasteful

 

[sophiejane]

It's okay, Poety, people who choose Family are usually secure enough in themselves and their career choice (which IS a choice, not a default for most of us) that they don't need to advertise all over internet chat boards that they are smart and capable and "stellar" students.

Comments like that used to bother me, but it's just not worth responding to anymore.

I agree this thread has become a disaster, but it kind of started out as a recipe for one.

Maybe it's time to abandon ship.

 

[Poety]

It's okay, Poety, people who choose Family are usually secure enough in themselves and their career choice (which IS a choice, not a default for most of us) that they don't need to advertise all over internet chat boards that they are smart and capable and "stellar" students.

Comments like that used to bother me, but it's just not worth responding to anymore.

I agree this thread has become a disaster, but it kind of started out as a recipe for one.

Maybe it's time to abandon ship.

Out of respect for my colleagues - I'll join you in abandoning ship Sophie, come on lets get outta here <takes Sophie hand and walks out, slams the door> LATER!

 

[LADoc00]

People need to do family med fo sure! They are the infantry of healthcare.

Ripping on pretentious specialities like derm is sooo much more satisfying.

 

[amojan99]

HUH?! Ummm where are you living, rural Arkansas???

100K isnt crap! That is roughly the starting salary for a kids coming out of college FFS in a ton of fields (IB, CE/EE..even medical device sales is more than that!!!).

After you are paying housing, school loans, etc. You couldnt even raise a family on that. Im single and barely hanging on making 250K! (well okay, Im doing a tad better than the poor house).

Obviously being from LA you live some kind of wild "lifestyles of the rich and famous" life which is so sterotyped. My girlfriend's parents are both only high school grads, make about 40-50 K a year, but have their own home - its not a mcmansion but its fairly large-, a menagerie of pets, two cars, and are sending two kids to private colleges. AND they STILL have enough left over for a vacation to Florida every now and then. By the way, they live in Jersey, a stones throw away from NYC - not the cheapest of neighborhoods, and certainly not the boondocks of Arkansas. All the people here that are complaining that 100k cant possibly satisfy them, consider this - you are probably going to be married, to another person making at least 50k+ (you're highly educated and chances are you'll marry someone like that too) boosting your minimum income to 150k a year at least! After starting out small for a few years, your salary will certainly go up as you gain seniority. To suggest that 250k a year sends you to the poorhouse is ridiculous. If people lived within their means they can certainly be comfortable and once they earn the big bucks - only popstars, atheletes, and internet billionaires do before 40 - you'll be able to splurge a bit.

 

[GoPistons]

your point is mute...

these people started out with zero debt, about a 14 year head start, and with significant low income tax advantages...

compare them to someone with 300k debt, starting to earn money 14 years later, and not qualifying for any tax advantages due to their high income...

 

[Methyldopa]

your point is mute...

these people started out with zero debt, about a 14 year head start, and with significant low income tax advantages...

compare them to someone with 300k debt, starting to earn money 14 years later, and not qualifying for any tax advantages due to their high income...

Do you mean his point is moot??

Anyway, you bring up a good point. You are starting off with a huge amount of debt. But then again you're earning twice the amount (if not more) and still there are a lot of tax breaks for high income earners if you know where to invest your money.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Do you mean his point is moot??

Anyway, you bring up a good point. You are starting off with a huge amount of debt. But then again you're earning twice the amount (if not more) and still there are a lot of tax breaks for high income earners if you know where to invest your money.

Dont worry about peoples spellings too much this is the internet.. Yes it is moot.

There are almost NO tax advantages to making a lot of money! Now as a total amount you can write off more but you always pay more. I assume that this is what you meant by where to invest your money. Keep in mind if you pay 50K in interest and are in the highest tax bracket (35%) you still end up paying ~32,500... Of course you will have quite the house.

Obviously making more $$ is an advantage but anyone who thinks 100K per yr is enough to pay off ~300K in loans and live a "decent" (read NOT Lifestyles of the rich and famous) lifestyle is NUTS!

 

[Poety]

Dont worry about peoples spellings too much this is the internet.. Yes it is moot.

There are almost NO tax advantages to making a lot of money! Now as a total amount you can write off more but you always pay more. I assume that this is what you meant by where to invest your money. Keep in mind if you pay 50K in interest and are in the highest tax bracket (35%) you still end up paying ~32,500... Of course you will have quite the house.

Obviously making more $$ is an advantage but anyone who thinks 100K per yr is enough to pay off ~300K in loans and live a "decent" (read NOT Lifestyles of the rich and famous) lifestyle is NUTS!

EF, my realtor today said that when I get done with residency I will wnat to buy an even bigger adn better house for the tax break - ever hear of that?

Also, I intend on making about 160K - with 250K debt, plus the house and my car. I think I'll be ok - especially since I've been used to living off much less for a long time. I think the biggest thing with the loans is to pay them off as slowly as possible - thats my intention. It won't matter that much if I factor it in as a constant payment don't ya think?

Just wondering your thoughts on this - I'm not the most business savvy. I could also use my equity to pay them down but why bother when I could just pay em off over 30 years? If you think about it, even with my hubby making say 30K a year - that alone could just pay the debt and the rest would be money in our pocket (after taxes) right?

btw, I'm hoping for 160K, I may end up with about 130K starting!

 

[EctopicFetus]

EF, my realtor today said that when I get done with residency I will wnat to buy an even bigger adn better house for the tax break - ever hear of that?

Right the reason is you can deduct the mortgage interest from your salary. Here is the logic, 1) you want a bigger home why? cause you can afford it (this is the logic of realtors) not all people believe in this. The way it works for example is this.. For example (just to make the number work easier) if you have an income of 200K and all other things being equal you pay 50K in mtg interest then you are only taxed on having made 150K so lets say you would pay 40K to the government (for example), if youhad a smaller home and your mtg interest was 25K then the government would tax you on 175K in income so you would pay 25K to the government. So in the end with the bigger home you would have 110K left and the smaller home you would have 150K left. The logic is that more of the money goes to you and away from Uncle Same. I hope this makes sense.

Also, I intend on making about 160K - with 250K debt, plus the house and my car. I think I'll be ok - especially since I've been used to living off much less for a long time. I think the biggest thing with the loans is to pay them off as slowly as possible - thats my intention. It won't matter that much if I factor it in as a constant payment don't ya think?

I also plan on paying as slow as possible but keep in mind on a docs salary you wont be able to write off the loan interest. If you have loans of 250k and at 6% over 30 yrs you would be paying about 1500 per month for 30 yrs..

Just wondering your thoughts on this - I'm not the most business savvy. I could also use my equity to pay them down but why bother when I could just pay em off over 30 years? If you think about it, even with my hubby making say 30K a year - that alone could just pay the debt and the rest would be money in our pocket (after taxes) right?

Once you become an attending and before you make a big purchase get an accountant they are worth their weight in gold if you are a high income individual (and as a doc dont fool yourself, you are!) There are lots of smart ways to mess with your money to do whats right!

btw, I'm hoping for 160K, I may end up with about 130K starting!

Im not sure how much psych makes but per Allied Physicians 149K is starting and 169 is the avg after 2 yrs. More for child psych of course there are a lot of variables with this.. If you have time get a book like Personal Finance for dummies (not that I am calling you dumb ).. It is light reading and will pay for itself 1000X over! If you have more Qs PM me..

 

[BKN]

EF, my realtor today said that when I get done with residency I will wnat to buy an even bigger adn better house for the tax break - ever hear of that?

The banks and the realtors are very happy to qualify you up to the most expensive house you can afford. (and more, if you tank, it's no skin off them, they just resell the house.) Don't do it. the tax advantages are signifiicant, but not buying more than you need is better.

Get out of debt as quickly as you can.

 

[Methyldopa]

There are almost NO tax advantages to making a lot of money!

Of course you'll be paying more taxes if you earn more money. This is a given. But I disagree with the above statement. You can put away $40K a year in a retirement account, while a lower income individual could never save that amount. Also real estate is a big tax break, not only in property tax and mortgage interest but also if you own rental property in terms of depreciation.

As a higher income earner you have a lot more disposable income and if you knew what to do with it, you can cut your taxes by a good amount.

 

[etudiante04]

After you are paying housing, school loans, etc. You couldnt even raise a family on that. Im single and barely hanging on making 250K! (well okay, Im doing a tad better than the poor house).

 

[EctopicFetus]

Of course you'll be paying more taxes if you earn more money. This is a given. But I disagree with the above statement. You can put away $40K a year in a retirement account, while a lower income individual could never save that amount. Also real estate is a big tax break, not only in property tax and mortgage interest but also if you own rental property in terms of depreciation.

As a higher income earner you have a lot more disposable income and if you knew what to do with it, you can cut your taxes by a good amount.

Ok now I am curious.. How do you put 40k away for retirement and not have to pay taxes on this? Are you referring to Pensions? According to the us Gov you can only put about 15K in a tax deferred account.. Correct me if I am missing something.

Real estate is a huge tax break... In the end though you DO pay more but you can find ways to minimize the taxes you have to pay to Uncle Sam. Def investment is key for docs which is why many earn a lot but are not high net worth individuals.

 

[Methyldopa]

Ok now I am curious.. How do you put 40k away for retirement and not have to pay taxes on this? Are you referring to Pensions? According to the us Gov you can only put about 15K in a tax deferred account.. Correct me if I am missing something.

You can contribute up to 20% of your income to a max of 40K towards SEP-IRAs or Keoghs. Your contributions are deducted from your taxable income.

Anyway, if you hire a good account or know how to do the leg work, you can actually do fine with a doctor's salary!

 

[EctopicFetus]

Interesting.. the thing is this might not really work for some fields like EM.. I will most def look into it when the time is right.. Thanks for the heads up man..

 

[DropkickMurphy]

you can actually do fine with a doctor's salary!

So long as I have the money to go on a vacation every year and go hiking on my days off while keeping a roof over my family's heads I'll be satisfied......