competitive COMLEX score for allopathic peds programs?

[Rotavirus]

Hi all. I'm a third year osteopathic medical student. I've just started researching pediatric residencies. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what a competitive COMLEX score is for an allopathic pediatrics program. I got a 542 on Step 1. I have also been looking at possibly doing a fellowship after residency (maybe ID). Therefore, I was wondering if I should focus on applying to university programs where I can be involved in research to help me land a fellowship later on. I would appreciate any advice or residency program suggestions. Thanks!

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[Doctorchic2007]

Hi all. I'm a third year osteopathic medical student. I've just started researching pediatric residencies. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what a competitive COMLEX score is for an allopathic pediatrics program. I got a 542 on Step 1. I have also been looking at possibly doing a fellowship after residency (maybe ID). Therefore, I was wondering if I should focus on applying to university programs where I can be involved in research to help me land a fellowship later on. I would appreciate any advice or residency program suggestions. Thanks!

I dont have first hand experience with Peds... but fom what I do know is that Peds fellowships are not difficult to get. Many pople dont specialize because u are limiting your population. In a sense you are forced to work in a bigger city and most likely with a children's hospital. BUt other than that, I have heard that most allopathic programs are really friendly towards DO's and that u should be fine.

My best advice is try to do a peds Sub-I at the place you really want to go and show them what u got.

 

[docmartin]

My 2 cents...you may consider taking Step I USMLE, just in case you decide to apply to some peds programs that don't take COMLEX. I took Step I and II USMLE in addition to COMLEX I&II to keep myself competitive. I ran into a 4th yr med student who told me one peds program in particular (in CA) wouldn't grant her an interview until she took USMLE Step I.

As far as fellowship goes, it's more about who you know, however, they may ask for board scores if you are not a good candidate, and I am not sure if fellowship programs understand COMLEX.

Just better to take USMLE I, you already studied for COMLEX I. Don't limit your opportunities.

Good luck.

 

[phd2b]

My 2 cents...you may consider taking Step I USMLE, just in case you decide to apply to some peds programs that don't take COMLEX. I took Step I and II USMLE in addition to COMLEX I&II to keep myself competitive. I ran into a 4th yr med student who told me one peds program in particular (in CA) wouldn't grant her an interview until she took USMLE Step I.

As far as fellowship goes, it's more about who you know, however, they may ask for board scores if you are not a good candidate, and I am not sure if fellowship programs understand COMLEX.

Just better to take USMLE I, you already studied for COMLEX I. Don't limit your opportunities.

Good luck.

Why bother re-studying for Step I USMLE? Why not simply take Step II USMLE and COMLEX II earlier (August) and submit them both? That way the few uncertain allopathic programs can have some familiar numbers to look at without your having to waste the time (and money) taking Step I (after already having passed COMLEX I months ago). I've already checked into this possibility and the USMLE folks don't care if you take USMLE II w/o having USMLE I; as long as your dean's office says you are in good standing, you are good to go.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Mohel]

As a DO in a peds allo program...Take my advice... if you have interest, just take the usmle. As a DO going for peds you are already a small minority of DO's in the 1st place. Second of all... you are an even smaller minority of the huge amount of people going in to peds from the us Md and FMG pool. You can get in to a place withonly the comlex, but if you are looking at the programs with 2-3000 applicants and hav roughly 4 do candidates with only COMLEX scores and 2996 with USMLE how could you compare the two. You are greatly limiting your reach. With a score of high five hundreds you would probably be USMLE of 220+...Don't limit yourself.

 

[The Med-Peds Dude]

Hi all. I'm a third year osteopathic medical student. I've just started researching pediatric residencies. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what a competitive COMLEX score is for an allopathic pediatrics program. I got a 542 on Step 1. I have also been looking at possibly doing a fellowship after residency (maybe ID). Therefore, I was wondering if I should focus on applying to university programs where I can be involved in research to help me land a fellowship later on. I would appreciate any advice or residency program suggestions. Thanks!

First, remember board scores are only part of the package. Second, without looking it up, 542 strikes me as fairly high - greater than 75th %tile? For Ped fellowships, esp. ID, I wouldn't stay awake tonight worrying over this. Finally, I don't believe Fellowship Directors care about board scores as much as they care that you have a license & are likely to pass the ABP exam.

 

[raspberry swirl]

dont listen to these people telling you to take the USMLE Step I ... i took both and wished i hadn't taken the USMLE Step I, if only because sitting through that exam twice was total torture, and it probably wont really do all that much to help me. besides, who wants to study that basic science crap all over again, while you are supposed to be studying for step II??

back to your actual question ... im in a similar boat as you (same year, similar interests, similar comlex score) and everyone i have talked to has said that i wont have a problem matching somewhere decenet (irregardless of the fact that i took the USMLE). peds is generally not overly competitive, and is also somewhat laid back. i've looked at a smattering of east coast programs, and i can usually find a DO among the ranks at most places. however, i have heard that california is especially dicey for DOs. as long as you interview well, i dont think you'll run into any problems in any other part of the country though.

 

[StringBean]

dont listen to these people telling you to take the USMLE Step I ... i took both and wished i hadn't taken the USMLE Step I, if only because sitting through that exam twice was total torture, and it probably wont really do all that much to help me. besides, who wants to study that basic science crap all over again, while you are supposed to be studying for step II??

back to your actual question ... im in a similar boat as you (same year, similar interests, similar comlex score) and everyone i have talked to has said that i wont have a problem matching somewhere decenet (irregardless of the fact that i took the USMLE). peds is generally not overly competitive, and is also somewhat laid back. i've looked at a smattering of east coast programs, and i can usually find a DO among the ranks at most places. however, i have heard that california is especially dicey for DOs. as long as you interview well, i dont think you'll run into any problems in any other part of the country though.

Sorry Swirl, totally disagree with you here. I've recently completed the interviewing process for peds in allopathic programs only and I suggest taking both the COMLEX & USMLE (both 1 & 2 preferably, but that's not to say I definitely think she/he should go back & take Step 1... but def take both for Step 2). On many of my interviews they said that they were happy that I took the USMLE, it's makes it easier for them to compare scores b/t candidates... like Mohel states. I just think it's stupid to take the chance at limiting your opportunities. I don't think it's right, but it's reality & we have to deal with it. And IMHO it was a pleasure to take the USMLE... I could be sure that I had a score that represented my true knowledge base & test-taking skills... the COMLEX certainly does NOT do that... oh, and I did better on both USMLE 1 & 2 than I did on COMLEX 1 & 2.

 

[kristing]

Hi all. I'm a third year osteopathic medical student. I've just started researching pediatric residencies. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what a competitive COMLEX score is for an allopathic pediatrics program. I got a 542 on Step 1. I have also been looking at possibly doing a fellowship after residency (maybe ID). Therefore, I was wondering if I should focus on applying to university programs where I can be involved in research to help me land a fellowship later on. I would appreciate any advice or residency program suggestions. Thanks!

This totally depends on where you want to go. I took USMLE did terribly and didn't list it. SHhhhhh... it's a secret. HAH. So I only listed my COMLEX I which was over 50th percentile and got interviews at all places except 2. One I didn't get an interview, I know, because I didn't take the USMLE, but the other, I am not so sure.

I applied to a few academic big places, a few middle size places, and a few small places.

It was a waste of my money and a day of vacation to take the damn USMLE. But if you are going to a place where it's not a DO friendly area, or to a place that is really academic with a "good" reputation - think Rainbow babies, CHOP, etc. it would probably be worth your while to take the USMLE.

You can do research ANYWHERE. Seriously. Don't pick your program based on that. I would recommmend doing research now, though, if you can. It is amazing how much it will help you later on.

Fellowships in peds are not super hard to get. Possibly because they pay like crapola and are all 3 years, vs IM fellowships which pay well, usually, and are sometimes 2 years. If you go to a residency you like and flourish, and then do a rotation at a place where you want to do fellowship, you will have a good chance.

 

[jd star]

an "ah ha" moment...

i never knew that you didn't have to tell them your USMLE score... i did very well on COMLEX1 but barely passed USMLE1 (probably because i took it a week after COMLEX and was completely burnt out) and i don't plan on taking USMLE2 unless my program requests it.

so i don't even have to say that i took USMLE1... what if they ask?

 

[kristing]

an "ah ha" moment...

i never knew that you didn't have to tell them your USMLE score... i did very well on COMLEX1 but barely passed USMLE1 (probably because i took it a week after COMLEX and was completely burnt out) and i don't plan on taking USMLE2 unless my program requests it.

so i don't even have to say that i took USMLE1... what if they ask?

ok, officially you are supposed to list it. So, honestly, I probably comitted fraud and now everyone will see that I did, since my name is soooo secretive...

But really, no one asked me about it. They saw that I had a decent COMLEX and seemed happy with it.

The official word from my deans was "you have to list it". The unofficial word from some faculty was "no one will ask you, no one will go hunting it down, they are too busy and they don't care that much." I know a few people in my situation who did the same thing and got into MD programs.

So there you go. It's up to you.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Along these same lines, does anybody know a competitive USMLE score for a gen pediatric residency at an allopathic university hospital? I took both the COMLEX and USMLE step I and am reasonably happy with my scores, so do I really need to take USMLE step II?

 

[carpe diem]

USMLE can open doors for you at some programs and set you apart from other DO candidates (since some programs seem to only interview and/or accept a small % of DO candidates each year), and it should not hurt you at other programs that don't officially "require" it.

As some others have noted in this thread, many folks do better on USMLE than on Comlex (including myself) ....... I believe, most of the time, because USMLE is a much better written test.

My $.02

Carpe

 

[californiasky]

For those who have interview and know, what are some of the programs out there that are not DO friendly? I noticed a few people mentioned a few in CA, which ones?

 

[phd2b]

USMLE can open doors for you at some programs and set you apart from other DO candidates (since some programs seem to only interview and/or accept a small % of DO candidates each year), and it should not hurt you at other programs that don't officially "require" it.

As some others have noted in this thread, many folks do better on USMLE than on Comlex (including myself) ....... I believe, most of the time, because USMLE is a much better written test.

My $.02

Carpe

Carpe,
I guess I don't understand why 'many' people do better on the USMLE than they did the COMLEX. By definition, isn't it relative to the population taking the exam?

If I follow your logic, are DO students who take both the USMLE and the COMLEX relatively superior to the USMLE-only takers, but somehow relatively inferior to those COMLEX-only takers? To put it another way, are those students who did well on COMLEX different kinds of students b/c they were able to decipher the poorly written exam? (Or, could it be that the ~10% of OMT on the COMLEX baffles those that take both exams?)

My questions are not really germane to the original poster's questions, of course, but your statement confused me a little. For the record, btw, I thought that the COMLEX was a poorly written exam; still, I know that there were plenty of folks who did better than me and who somehow broke the code.

 

[carpe diem]

dont listen to these people telling you to take the USMLE Step I ... i took both and wished i hadn't taken the USMLE Step I, if only because sitting through that exam twice was total torture, and it probably wont really do all that much to help me. besides, who wants to study that basic science crap all over again, while you are supposed to be studying for step II??

back to your actual question ... im in a similar boat as you (same year, similar interests, similar comlex score) and everyone i have talked to has said that i wont have a problem matching somewhere decenet (irregardless of the fact that i took the USMLE). peds is generally not overly competitive, and is also somewhat laid back. i've looked at a smattering of east coast programs, and i can usually find a DO among the ranks at most places. however, i have heard that california is especially dicey for DOs. as long as you interview well, i dont think you'll run into any problems in any other part of the country though.

I think this is short-sighted personally. I agree the decision obviously hinges much on what type program and what area of the country someone is looking. All I know is that taking USMLE I got me several interviews at top-tier to near top-tier programs that otherwise would not have looked at me. And my USMLE score was not even that great ........ in most cases, if programs like everything else they see but aren't totally sold on you, seeing that you took a board exam that you are not "required" to take speaks volumes about your character and work ethic to the programs....... which counts for a lot.

Carpe

 

[raptor5]

I think this is short-sighted personally. I agree the decision obviously hinges much on what type program and what area of the country someone is looking. All I know is that taking USMLE I got me several interviews at top-tier to near top-tier programs that otherwise would not have looked at me. And my USMLE score was not even that great ........ in most cases, if programs like everything else they see but aren't totally sold on you, seeing that you took a board exam that you are not "required" to take speaks volumes about your character and work ethic to the programs....... which counts for a lot.

Carpe

So DO Students that don't take an the USMLE b/c it isn't required or b/c they feel they shouldn't have to have less character and a poor work ethic. hmmm.. interesting.

 

[StringBean]

So DO Students that don't take an the USMLE b/c it isn't required or b/c they feel they shouldn't have to have less character and a poor work ethic. hmmm.. interesting.

What?

 

[Superman DO]

I've got to revive this 6-year old thread from the dead! I have the same question as the original op:

I just found out my COMLEX-I score today. . .549 (400 passing, 800 max, 500 average). Does anybody know if that is good enough for allopathic peds residencies in the southeast? I will just have a COMLEX score, and not a USMLE score due to financial strains. I understand that my application will be reviewed upon other factors such as clinical grades and letters or rec. I am currently on my peds rotation, and it is the most fantastic, fun "job" I've ever experienced; I could definitely see myself working with and helping kids for the rest of my life. So, I am busting my butt for an honors grade, and also getting to know a few pediatricians for some valuable letters of recommendation. But, will my COMLEX get me into the door with some of the residencies in the southeast? Thanks for your help!

 

[Vita]

I've got to revive this 6-year old thread from the dead! I have the same question as the original op:

I just found out my COMLEX-I score today. . .549 (400 passing, 800 max, 500 average). Does anybody know if that is good enough for allopathic peds residencies in the southeast? I will just have a COMLEX score, and not a USMLE score due to financial strains. I understand that my application will be reviewed upon other factors such as clinical grades and letters or rec. I am currently on my peds rotation, and it is the most fantastic, fun "job" I've ever experienced; I could definitely see myself working with and helping kids for the rest of my life. So, I am busting my butt for an honors grade, and also getting to know a few pediatricians for some valuable letters of recommendation. But, will my COMLEX get me into the door with some of the residencies in the southeast? Thanks for your help!

I am a 4th year about to apply to allo programs. I have emailed many in the Southeast and most have said that COMLEX is fine. I emailed them my score (which was above 500 but lower than yours) and the ones who accept COMLEX say that it is competitive for an interview. What the general consensus has been is that if you scored much below average (ie 450 or lower) then they would like to also have a USMLE score.

Some of the programs in the Southeast that I know do not take the COMLEX are University of Virginia, Vanderbilt, Emory, UNC-Chapel Hill, maybe DUKE (not sure here - never heard back from them). I am not applying to anywhere in DC, so I can't comment on those.

I have emailed the following programs and they all accept COMLEX (this is a long list, sorry):
- East Tennessee State University - Quillen College of Medicine in Johnson City, TN
- UT - Chattanooga, TN
- Greenville, South Carolina
- USC - Columbia, SC
- MUSC - Charleston, SC (min: 475)
- Greenvile, NORTH Carolina (yes, it is confusing)
- Wake Forest - Winston Salem, NC
- Carolinas program - Charlotte, NC
- Virginia Tech, Carillion - Roanoke, Va
- INOVA - Fairfax, Va
- Virginia Commonwealth U - Richmond, Va
- Ohio State University - Columbus, OH (obviously not Southeast, but close)
- Indiana University - Indianapolis, IN (again, obviously not Southeast)
- West Virginia U - Charleston, WV (dual program)
- WVU - Morgantown, WV ( also dual)
- Marshal University - Huntington, WV
- University of KY - Lexington, KY
- University of Louisville, Ky

Finally, I THINK Cincinnati Children's accepts COMLEX. I don't think I have emailed them, but they are still on my list so I must have heard somewhere that they accept it.

There are also a bunch in Florida and Georgia, but I am not too interested in those states so I haven't personally contacted them.

Hope that helps some!

 

[Superman DO]

I am a 4th year about to apply to allo programs. I have emailed many in the Southeast and most have said that COMLEX is fine. I emailed them my score (which was above 500 but lower than yours) and the ones who accept COMLEX say that it is competitive for an interview. What the general consensus has been is that if you scored much below average (ie 450 or lower) then they would like to also have a USMLE score.

Some of the programs in the Southeast that I know do not take the COMLEX are University of Virginia, Vanderbilt, Emory, UNC-Chapel Hill, maybe DUKE (not sure here - never heard back from them). I am not applying to anywhere in DC, so I can't comment on those.

I have emailed the following programs and they all accept COMLEX (this is a long list, sorry):
- East Tennessee State University - Quillen College of Medicine in Johnson City, TN
- UT - Chattanooga, TN
- Greenville, South Carolina
- USC - Columbia, SC
- MUSC - Charleston, SC (min: 475)
- Greenvile, NORTH Carolina (yes, it is confusing)
- Wake Forest - Winston Salem, NC
- Carolinas program - Charlotte, NC
- Virginia Tech, Carillion - Roanoke, Va
- INOVA - Fairfax, Va
- Virginia Commonwealth U - Richmond, Va
- Ohio State University - Columbus, OH (obviously not Southeast, but close)
- Indiana University - Indianapolis, IN (again, obviously not Southeast)
- West Virginia U - Charleston, WV (dual program)
- WVU - Morgantown, WV ( also dual)
- Marshal University - Huntington, WV
- University of KY - Lexington, KY
- University of Louisville, Ky

Finally, I THINK Cincinnati Children's accepts COMLEX. I don't think I have emailed them, but they are still on my list so I must have heard somewhere that they accept it.

There are also a bunch in Florida and Georgia, but I am not too interested in those states so I haven't personally contacted them.

Hope that helps some!

Oh my bee geesus, that is so much help! Thank you so much! That saves me so much time not having to email all the residencies and annoy them about asking about the COMLEX. These are all programs that have had me lurking around their websites and wondering if I had a shot. It is a shame my Tarheels does not accept it!

Again, thank you so much for being so generous with this information! Best of luck with your applications!

 

[Vita]

Oh my bee geesus, that is so much help! Thank you so much! That saves me so much time not having to email all the residencies and annoy them about asking about the COMLEX. These are all programs that have had me lurking around their websites and wondering if I had a shot. It is a shame my Tarheels does not accept it!

Again, thank you so much for being so generous with this information! Best of luck with your applications!

No problem! I'll try to remember this thread if I apply elsewhere and find out they also accept COMLEX.

I have a friend last year who interviewed at University of Alabama Peds with only a COMLEX, so there is another one on the list.

It is a shame about UNC. They are fairly anti-DO from what I hear. UVA was very friendly when I emailed them, even though they don't take COMLEX. Maybe it'll change for them soon. Duke has a DO as the director of their Peds Neurology fellowship, so I have hopes that they might accept COMLEX.

 

[NilamPatel]

does anyone have an idea of what osteo peds residencies are looking for in terms of comlex score? is step 2 important?