Competitive Residencies, etc

[stat3113]

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Are there numbers available about nationwide, the percent of residency positions and how they break down into each of the categories? If you just consider Internal Medicine, etc. and the competitive specialties, what would the breakdown be like?

Let's say 70% of residencies are in IM/peds/etc. Does this mean you have to be in the top 30% of your class (i.e. grades, LORs, usmle) to even have a shot at becoming anything other than an internist?

So far, I haven't found myself to have any great aptitude for my pre-med courses, such that I'll be very fortunate to even get into med school in a year or so. But, even then, I really can't imagine myself working as a general physician. I imagine myself doing more specialized things, with less interaction with people, maybe more research related, etc.

Based on the match statistics, is every med student (except for the top 10%) prepared to accept that they may well spend the rest of their life in general medicine?

 

[soeagerun2or]

Are there numbers available about nationwide, the percent of residency positions and how they break down into each of the categories? If you just consider Internal Medicine, etc. and the competitive specialties, what would the breakdown be like?

Let's say 70% of residencies are in IM/peds/etc. Does this mean you have to be in the top 30% of your class (i.e. grades, LORs, usmle) to even have a shot at becoming anything other than an internist?

So far, I haven't found myself to have any great aptitude for my pre-med courses, such that I'll be very fortunate to even get into med school in a year or so. But, even then, I really can't imagine myself working as a general physician. I imagine myself doing more specialized things, with less interaction with people, maybe more research related, etc.

Based on the match statistics, is every med student (except for the top 10%) prepared to accept that they may well spend the rest of their life in general medicine?

I don't mean to sound like a dick but if you don't have an aptitude for pre-med classes what makes you believe you will for med classes and to be a specialist? Also, what exactly is wrong with the idea of being an internist? Is it just me or does it seem like kids these days want everything without doing the work to get it?

 

[DoctorFunk]

I hope the OP realizes that some of the top students actually WANT to do family practice, IM, or peds. In fact, I would wager a guess that some of the brightest minds around are internists and are attracted to the field because of its wide scope.

Just because a student is brilliant doesn't mean that they automatically rule everything but derm and plastics out.

 

[hayden]

just a general comment on this as well, if you're still a pre-med, you shouldn't be too worried about what kind of doctor you will be, just get into med school first, then figure it out, because you simply don't have enough experience yet to make that kind of decision, and as the previous poster stated, you could be brilliant and still be a family doc, so anything is possible.

 

[cgscribe]

Exactly, work hard to actually get into medical school before you start thinking about how tough the residency process is and what you'll specialize in, OP.

 

[Jccripe]

This post is a result of bad television. This is like majoring in Biology and hating it, doing poorly, but then going/trying to go to grad school for a Phd in Biology. I dont understand some peoples logic.

 

[Law2Doc]

Let's say 70% of residencies are in IM/peds/etc. Does this mean you have to be in the top 30% of your class (i.e. grades, LORs, usmle) to even have a shot at becoming anything other than an internist?
...

Based on the match statistics, is every med student (except for the top 10%) prepared to accept that they may well spend the rest of their life in general medicine?

While I agree with the above posters who suggest that many of the top people choose things like IM and it is hardly the negative you are suggesting, the short answer to your question is yes, 70+% of all med students will not be candidates for most of the more competitive specialties. In general if you have no interest in becoming a clinician, working with patients, etc, then med school is probably not going to lead to a satisfying career.

The goal shouldn't be to try to get to the most competitive slot you can get, it should be to get to a position that will make you happy -- you will likely be doing it for the next 45+ years. In your case it seems like you'd rather be a scientist ("more research related" less patient oriented) than a physician so an MD might not be the best path for you. However a lack of aptitude in the premed classes might mean a nonscience field might be an even better fit.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Charting Outcomes in the Match has most (ie. no neurosurg, urology, a few others) of the data you seek.

You can also see that people with average board scores usually match (somewhere) in most specialties.

 

[werd]

Are there numbers available about nationwide, the percent of residency positions and how they break down into each of the categories? If you just consider Internal Medicine, etc. and the competitive specialties, what would the breakdown be like?

Let's say 70% of residencies are in IM/peds/etc. Does this mean you have to be in the top 30% of your class (i.e. grades, LORs, usmle) to even have a shot at becoming anything other than an internist?

So far, I haven't found myself to have any great aptitude for my pre-med courses, such that I'll be very fortunate to even get into med school in a year or so. But, even then, I really can't imagine myself working as a general physician. I imagine myself doing more specialized things, with less interaction with people, maybe more research related, etc.

Based on the match statistics, is every med student (except for the top 10%) prepared to accept that they may well spend the rest of their life in general medicine?

i'm not following your logic... sooo if 95% of residencies aren't (residency x), you probably have to be in the top 5% to get into it? there are many non "internist" fields that aren't terribly competetive. also, you can never really tell ahead of time what your favorite field might be, so eliminating 70% of your possibilities prior to med school might be premature.
moreover, it's more like 50% of students that go into general medicine; many of the very top students to into general medicine and many of the very bottom don't. there're only a few fields that are off-limits to average students. cheers and good luck if you decide to pursue medicine.

ps - if you're seeking those numbers, maybe check out frieda's website...

 

[thesauce]

Exactly, work hard to actually get into medical school before you start thinking about how tough the residency process is and what you'll specialize in, OP.

I disagree with this. You should have some idea what specialty you want before medical school, otherwise why are you going?

If all you can say is that "I want to be a doctor," what does that mean? The field is so broad that one doctor does completely different work than another. So wanting to be "a doctor" is completely meaningless. It doesn't specify the job or even the type of work (i.e. research, surgery, delivering babies, public health, on and on into the night)!

Whether you stick with it or not, I'd say that you should have an idea of what kind of specialty you want or this is all a charade.

In answer to the OPs question, most medical students have some idea what they want to do before their step 1 scores are in. And most stick with it regardless of the outcome. And most are successful in achieving their goal specialty. So I would say that if you persevere, you will get whatever specialty you want. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[Law2Doc]

I disagree with this. You should have some idea what specialty you want before medical school, otherwise why are you going?

If all you can say is that "I want to be a doctor," what does that mean? The field is so broad that one doctor does completely different work than another. So wanting to be "a doctor" is completely meaningless. It doesn't specify the job or even the type of work (i.e. research, surgery, delivering babies, public health, on and on into the night)!

Whether you stick with it or not, I'd say that you should have an idea of what kind of specialty you want or this is all a charade.

In answer to the OPs question, most medical students have some idea what they want to do before their step 1 scores are in. And most stick with it regardless of the outcome. And most are successful in achieving their goal specialty. So I would say that if you persevere, you will get whatever specialty you want. Don't sell yourself short.

Your argument would hold more water if it wasn't a fact that the vast vast majority of all med students will change their mind at least once about what specialty they ultimately want to go into. What you think you'd like to do while in college may be different than what kinds of things you decide you love/hate while on rotations.

As for your last paragraph, it simply isn't true, at least from what I've seen and heard. Most med students still don't know what specialty they want with any certainty before rotations start. And lots of people do feel some doors opening/closing based on Step 1 results.

 

[thesauce]

Your argument would hold more water if it wasn't a fact that the vast vast majority of all med students will change their mind at least once about what specialty they ultimately want to go into. What you think you'd like to do while in college may be different than what kinds of things you decide you love/hate while on rotations..

How does this argue against what I've said? "They change their minds" = they had some idea before this time. I'm not suggesting they stick with it through thick and thin, but it's common sense that you should have some reason for going to medical school in the first place beyond "I want to be a doctor," which is a completely meaningless phrase in today's world.

As for your last paragraph, it simply isn't true, at least from what I've seen and heard. Most med students still don't know what specialty they want with any certainty before rotations start. And lots of people do feel some doors opening/closing based on Step 1 results.

The last paragraph was one that I got straight from my dean of student affairs, and I was very surprised by what he said as well. In response to a student saying that he was concerned with his board scores because he wanted to go into orthopedic surgery, the dean said that the most common situation is to NOT change your mind based on your board scores. I quote: "You may change it due to finding something else that grabs you more, but changing your mind based on the step 1 is a fool's game because there are more important aspects of your application. Where there's a will, there's a way."

 

[smq123]

I disagree with this. You should have some idea what specialty you want before medical school, otherwise why are you going?

If all you can say is that "I want to be a doctor," what does that mean? The field is so broad that one doctor does completely different work than another. So wanting to be "a doctor" is completely meaningless. It doesn't specify the job or even the type of work (i.e. research, surgery, delivering babies, public health, on and on into the night)!

Whether you stick with it or not, I'd say that you should have an idea of what kind of specialty you want or this is all a charade.

I don't know if you have to know what specialty you want before starting med school. I think that most people have a general idea of what specialty they want before starting rotations, though. After spending 2 years in a classroom, you tend to kind of know what doesn't interest you, and what might be fun to do as a career. But starting med school as a "blank slate" isn't such a terrible thing.

In answer to the OPs question, most medical students have some idea what they want to do before their step 1 scores are in. And most stick with it regardless of the outcome. And most are successful in achieving their goal specialty. So I would say that if you persevere, you will get whatever specialty you want. Don't sell yourself short.

I wish that were true, but I somehow doubt it. I know, that's what the deans tell you, but that may not be the best advice. If you read the ophtho forums, it can be really sad to see people post stuff like, "I've wanted to do ophtho since 2nd semester of freshman year of undergrad, and I studied so hard for Step 1 and Step 2, and I didn't match and now I don't know what to do with my life." You can stick with your dream specialty, regardless of your Step 1 score, but if your dean doesn't encourage you to at least apply for something that you're competitive for, then that is VERY bad advising.

 

[Law2Doc]

I wish that were true, but I somehow doubt it. I know, that's what the deans tell you, but that may not be the best advice. If you read the ophtho forums, it can be really sad to see people post stuff like, "I've wanted to do ophtho since 2nd semester of freshman year of undergrad, and I studied so hard for Step 1 and Step 2, and I didn't match and now I don't know what to do with my life." You can stick with your dream specialty, regardless of your Step 1 score, but if your dean doesn't encourage you to at least apply for something that you're competitive for, then that is VERY bad advising.

Agree -- deans, profs etc will periodically tell everybody they can do anything they want - it's mostly lip service. But then if your school has any decent advising component (and most do), the deans/mentors will more subtly and privately prod folks toward realistic goals. It's not accidental that you don't see all that many people with below average boards shooting for derm, optho. Somewhere along the lines people are given a reality check. Some places do it more blatently than others, I guess.

 

[dannylee718]

This post is a result of bad television. This is like majoring in Biology and hating it, doing poorly, but then going/trying to go to grad school for a Phd in Biology. I dont understand some peoples logic.

Hey, nice avatar. Thats one fruity DNA.

 

[dutchman]

Are there numbers available about nationwide, the percent of residency positions and how they break down into each of the categories? If you just consider Internal Medicine, etc. and the competitive specialties, what would the breakdown be like?

Let's say 70% of residencies are in IM/peds/etc. Does this mean you have to be in the top 30% of your class (i.e. grades, LORs, usmle) to even have a shot at becoming anything other than an internist?

So far, I haven't found myself to have any great aptitude for my pre-med courses, such that I'll be very fortunate to even get into med school in a year or so. But, even then, I really can't imagine myself working as a general physician. I imagine myself doing more specialized things, with less interaction with people, maybe more research related, etc.

Based on the match statistics, is every med student (except for the top 10%) prepared to accept that they may well spend the rest of their life in general medicine?

A gunner with no bullets.