MD Competitive residency chances as an IMG?

[SguMD_0]

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285 Step 1

260 Step 2 CK

2 publications on bone cancer (including 1 first author).

Dream specialties are Ortho, or Rad Onc, but I know it's a long shot since I'm an IMG. I do have decent scores so Idk if that's enough to counter the IMG status? Also PM&R, and Sports medicine are also programs of interest.

No red flags on my application, scored in the top 10% of my class pre-clinical years, also had a career as a researcher in genetics during my 20s before starting med school at the ripe old age of 31, don't know if residencies care about that.

Thanks.

 

[atomi]

Rad onc would have virtually been impossible just a few years ago as a Caribbean grad with presumably little research or rotations. But the field is currently self destructing so who knows.

Ortho is so obsessed with step 1 you also night have a shot with a 99th percentile score.

I’d say go nuts and shotgun apply every single rad onc and ortho program there is. Worst case is you’ll soap into a fam med program, which is a decent achievement in and of itself coming from the carribean.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

I think looking at the data, I’d agree with atomi - especially if you have significant LORs. Research isn’t ranked nearly as high in ortho, so I don’t think having few publications will hurt you since you do have a 1st author publication and you are familiar with research if that’s what the PD is after. I’m sure you’ll get a handful of interviews at the least if you apply broadly.

 

[Gorne]

No red flags? That's a whopping 25 point drop from Step 1==>Step 2 there bud.

 

[Raney Schauer]

No red flags? That's a whopping 25 point drop from Step 1==>Step 2 there bud.

It's still 5-10 points above the matching mean for every top flight specialty (Ortho, derm, ENT, vascular, etc.). Nice try, Lau Che.

 

[SguMD_0]

I think looking at the data, I’d agree with atomi - especially if you have significant LORs. Research isn’t ranked nearly as high in ortho, so I don’t think having few publications will hurt you since you do have a 1st author publication and you are familiar with research if that’s what the PD is after. I’m sure you’ll get a handful of interviews at the least if you apply broadly.

But am I even eligible to apply as an IMG? I guess my question is that do ortho programs even consider IMG applicants?

No red flags? That's a whopping 25 point drop from Step 1==>Step 2 there bud.

Yeah I know. I messed up step 2 pretty bad, I just didn't have enough time to study for it as I did step 1. I've talked to people though and they say that it's a pretty decent score and that I shouldn't bother retaking it.

 

[SguMD_0]

Rad onc would have virtually been impossible just a few years ago as a Caribbean grad with presumably little research or rotations. But the field is currently self destructing so who knows.

Ortho is so obsessed with step 1 you also night have a shot with a 99th percentile score.

I’d say go nuts and shotgun apply every single rad onc and ortho program there is. Worst case is you’ll soap into a fam med program, which is a decent achievement in and of itself coming from the carribean.

Out of curiosity why is rad onc a self-destructing field?

I'm not really worried about matching into FM or IM. What about PM&R and sports medicine specialties, are they realistic residencies given my stats as well?

Also my question is that am I even eligible to apply to ortho programs as an IMG? Will they even look at my application or dismiss it on the account of me being an IMG?

 

[Gorne]

It's still 5-10 points above the matching mean for every top flight specialty (Ortho, derm, ENT, vascular, etc.). Nice try, Lau Che.

lol.

I've talked to people though and they say that it's a pretty decent score and that I shouldn't bother retaking it.

Youz a troll homie. Nobody smart enough to score a 260 thinks you can "retake" a 260.

 

[SguMD_0]

lol.



Youz a troll homie. Nobody smart enough to score a 260 thinks you can "retake" a 260.

No Im not, but it's ok. I get that you're jealous that someone studying on an island did what you couldn't. It's ok man.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No Im not, but it's ok. I get that you're jealous that someone studying on an island did what you couldn't. It's ok man.

Lol, why would they be jealous of someone who needs a 285 simply to even think about ortho? Nah

 

[Goro]

But am I even eligible to apply as an IMG? I guess my question is that do ortho programs even consider IMG applicants?



Yeah I know. I messed up step 2 pretty bad, I just didn't have enough time to study for it as I did step 1. I've talked to people though and they say that it's a pretty decent score and that I shouldn't bother retaking it.

According to the Program Director's survey for 2018,
79% of PDs never interview IMGs, while 21% seldom do

For ranking, it's 82% never; 18% seldom.

That's a pretty steep uphill climb.

Of the competitive specialties, vascular surgery (n = 14) 21% will often interview and 29% often rank. For neurosurg (m = 24), it's 8% will often interview and 13% often rank. These numbers have gone down since the 2017 survey, BTW. These are pretty much the only =ones with rank/interview %s in the very low double digits. The rest are single digit %'s.

Thus, I perceive a tiny window of opportunity, but it seems to be closing.

 

[SguMD_0]

Lol, why would they be jealous of someone who needs a 285 simply to even think about ortho? Nah

Good point, I honestly wish I had been smarter during undergrad and taken school a lot more seriously instead of screwing around. But I can't change that and I feel like despite going to an island school, I managed to redeem myself somewhat.

Frankly I don't even care who is or isn't jealous. I just want to know realistically given my stats and my IMG status, are their any ortho programs worth applying too? What about rad onc and PM&R?

Thanks.

 

[SguMD_0]

According to the Program Director's survey for 2018,
79% of PDs never interview IMGs, while 21% seldom do

For ranking, it's 82% never; 18% seldom.

That's a pretty steep uphill climb.

Of the competitive specialties, vascular surgery (n = 14) 21% will often interview and 29% often rank. For neurosurg (m = 24), it's 8% will often interview and 13% often rank. These numbers have gone down since the 2017 survey, BTW. These are pretty much the only =ones with rank/interview %s in the very low double digits. The rest are single digit %'s.

Thus, I perceive a tiny window of opportunity, but it seems to be closing.

Thanks for this information! By no means am I setting all of my hopes on a specialty like ortho being an IMG.

The 79% of PDs who don't and the 18% who do, are they PDs for ortho programs? Where can I find similar information for rad onc and PM&R?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

are their any ortho programs worth applying too?

I would literally apply to every single one. All of them. If you would be ok with PM&R then I would apply to those as well (you will match PM&R most assuredly) as a back up. Even as an IMG you do have some options, even if the competitive specialties are a hailmary

 

[Goro]

Thanks for this information! By no means am I setting all of my hopes on a specialty like ortho being an IMG.

The 79% of PDs who don't and the 18% who do, are they PDs for ortho programs? Where can I find similar information for rad onc and PM&R?

My apologies for not including the link:
https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf

And yes, they were all PDs for Ortho programs.

Your best chances will be:
Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation
Neurology
Pathology
Family Medicine
Psychiatry
Internal Medicine

 

[FistLength]

Thanks for this information! By no means am I setting all of my hopes on a specialty like ortho being an IMG.

The 79% of PDs who don't and the 18% who do, are they PDs for ortho programs? Where can I find similar information for rad onc and PM&R?

Per the NRMP data, looks like 33% of rad onc programs might bite with IMG's. I don't recall reading IMG's that matched but I suspect 1-2 do every year, and they are likely research superstars. You have some slant given your cancer research, and rad onc is a specialty puts a lot of emphasis on research, so its nice that is in your favor in addition to your high step score. It's worth a shot if you are sincerely interested in the specialty, but you would have significantly less chance if you don't do aways and get strong letters. I don't think you will have a chance unless you fully commit to rad onc (you will need letters, without exception). I would say the same thing with ortho, you will likely need strong letters and you can't skip doing aways in one for the other. I can't imagine someone being interested in both ortho and rad onc, they are so opposite. I would choose one or the other, put all your eggs in that basket, and keep PMR/FM/IM (whichever) as your backup.

You will match PMR, thats not a question, how high up the ivory tower is the question.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If you look at the NRMP match results for 2018, you can see that of 742 Ortho PGY-1 positions, 10 were filled by US IMG's. So, possible but difficult.

You could try to do a few ortho rotations at programs that have ortho residencies, although some medical schools have stopped allowing this. Those step scores are amazeballs, so that will open some doors. Several (3, if possible) ortho rotations with LOR's and you might stand a chance.

But realistically you'll probably need a research year or two. If you were to do that, build connections, etc, then your chances would be better.

Of course, all of this comes at a price. Do 3 Ortho away rotations and apply to IM, and you might find that programs don't interview you because they assume (correctly) that you're really interested in ortho and not serious about IM. Same for PM&R, although I guess it's less of a stretch since there is more overlap between ortho and PM&R.

I assume you've read the Million Dollar Mistake blog. Carib student, wanted ortho. 260/276. Multiple ortho rotations at univ hospitals. Spoiler alert: ends badly. But this is because this guy wanted ortho and nothing else, and so becomes super bitter when he gets an IM spot. But it points out the difficulty you'll have.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

If any IMG could match ortho it’s someone with an app like yours. I would apply to all ortho and rad onc, and add a few PM&R if you don’t want to soap.

 

[SguMD_0]

If you look at the NRMP match results for 2018, you can see that of 742 Ortho PGY-1 positions, 10 were filled by US IMG's. So, possible but difficult.

You could try to do a few ortho rotations at programs that have ortho residencies, although some medical schools have stopped allowing this. Those step scores are amazeballs, so that will open some doors. Several (3, if possible) ortho rotations with LOR's and you might stand a chance.

But realistically you'll probably need a research year or two. If you were to do that, build connections, etc, then your chances would be better.

Of course, all of this comes at a price. Do 3 Ortho away rotations and apply to IM, and you might find that programs don't interview you because they assume (correctly) that you're really interested in ortho and not serious about IM. Same for PM&R, although I guess it's less of a stretch since there is more overlap between ortho and PM&R.

I assume you've read the Carib student, wanted ortho. 260/276. Multiple ortho rotations at univ hospitals. Spoiler alert: ends badly. But this is because this guy wanted ortho and nothing else, and so becomes super bitter when he gets an IM spot. But it points out the difficulty you'll have.

Wow. That was a really depressing read. To be fair though that guy is an idiot, who turns down a US DO school for the Caribbean? I'm not gonna lie, I do want ortho pretty badly, but I'm realistic about my chances and yes being an ortho surgeon would be pretty awesome, but if not, that's ok, there's more to life than just that. Like you said, PM&R has lots of overlap with ortho so that's always there for me even if I'm not raking in ortho $$$. And while rad onc is completely different from ortho in every way imaginable it is also a specialty I'm super interested in and probably about as realistic for me as ortho.

In terms of taking a year or two off to do research, I'm already 35. I don't want to finish residency when I'm 42. I'll try my best with the away rotations and try to maximize my chances with that. We'll see what happens.

If any IMG could match ortho it’s someone with an app like yours. I would apply to all ortho and rad onc, and add a few PM&R if you don’t want to soap.

I definitely don't want to soap. That's for sure.

 

[gyngyn]

Closing troll thread.