competitive?

[boon]

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Is getting into the Optometry field competitive? I have talked to few ODs but most got in around 10-20 years ago. I am wondering nowadays, is it harder to get in if to comparing to pharmacy, dentistry, or any other graduate health program?

 

[iloveoptometry]

Is getting into the Optometry field competitive? I have talked to few ODs but most got in around 10-20 years ago. I am wondering nowadays, is it harder to get in if to comparing to pharmacy, dentistry, or any other graduate health program?

Optometry is the least competitive health-care profession.
Most competitive will be Medical school
Then Dentistry
then pharmacy
then Vet
then Optometry

 

[pre_opt_sku]

Optometry is the least competitive health-care profession.
Most competitive will be Medical school
Then Dentistry
then pharmacy
then Vet
then Optometry

I guess it depends where you live. Pharmacy is WAY easier to get into than optometry where I live...

 

[Katalio]

I'm sure in Canada, that's not the case.

 

[Chr147]

i always thought vet was more competitive than medicine, at least in california anyways

 

[3eb4me]

i always thought vet was more competitive than medicine, at least in california anyways

Yea Vet is harder to get into than medicine. I think optometry and pharmacy rank the same. It's getting more competitive. My school's freshmen class has more pre-optometry students than my entire school combined last year. I think the popularity of the field has increased dramatically- low stress, flexible schedule, good pay, decent amount of education, etc.

 

[boon]

Ah, thanks for the info, I guess still it is hard to tell. I really like to get into optometry, but its just my gpa is very low, and no bachelor degree yet. So I was hoping how competitive this would be 🙁

 

[Rusunn]

Ah, thanks for the info, I guess still it is hard to tell. I really like to get into optometry, but its just my gpa is very low, and no bachelor degree yet. So I was hoping how competitive this would be 🙁

http://www.opted.org/info_profile2.cfm
List various school's avg GPA and OAT for their entering class

 

[cpw]

Vet was definitely the hardest to get into where I was in Texas. Both pharmacy and optometry are competitive. At my undergrad, (UT) pharmacy was VERY competitive because they had the #1 pharm school in the country at the time. I'm unsure if they still are. Everyone I met my freshman year was pre-pharm.

The admission office at UHCO told me last year applications have been on the rise in the last two years.

 

[UABopt]

Optometry is the least competitive health-care profession.
Most competitive will be Medical school
Then Dentistry
then pharmacy
then Vet
then Optometry

I am not sure as to how you are proposing to compare how competitive an optometry school is to how competitive a pharmacy school is, in so far as admissions are concerned. Nearly 70% of Pharmacy applicants have NO bachelors degree, compared to nearly all optometry students who have completed their undergraduate education.

 

[rpames]

This ranking is not very accurate. Vet school is certainly more competitive then medical school. As far as dentistry, last summer I did a comparison between DDS/DMD vs. OD entering class GPA's and dental was only about 0.05 higher. I know that is not the only factor in comparing competitiveness, but I think it is an important one.

This whole thing is just guessing by any of us. I'll give you the facts about ICO's 2005 class:
~50% of the applicants were granted interviews
~150 of the ~800 applicants entered the program
~3.3 GPA
>90% had BS/BA
a few has masters and one or two had professional degrees
only ~5% had did not have a degree

This values are from memory so they could be off a little (not much). Although, I agree that OD school is not as competitive as medicine as a whole, these states are better than some US MD programs.

 

[Hines302]

Optometry is the least competitive health-care profession.
Most competitive will be Medical school
Then Dentistry
then pharmacy
then Vet
then Optometry

Optometry is not the least competitive health-care profession. Lets look at the numbers! Only 17 opt schools in the US... average class size of 70 (MCO=33 ICO = 155) Thats not very many spots compared to other health professions.

Over 900 applied to ICO w/ only 150 spots. That means less than 20% make it. You will find that percentage is the same for just about every school. Now consider Osteopathic Medicine. MSU accepts 200 out of 750 aplicants. Furthur more it is a known stat a studnet who applies to medical school has about 50% chance of getting in. I dont know for sure, but just looking at numbers, I am sure its not that high for opt schools!

Also lets look at entering class profiles: You will find that they are almost the same GPA wise!

Optometry School
Osteopathic Medicine
Dental School

 

[Canadian26]

In terms of GPA, Optometry school is the least competitive. Where I live, the averages for MED and Pharmacy are about 3.9 and 3.7-3.8 (respectively), I believe dent. is about 3.6 if not higher. Most optometry schools are about 3.2-3.4, which is a lot lower. Also comparing exams, you need to get in the top 89+ percentile for the MCAT to even be conisdered (we don't have the Pcat anymore), I'm not sure about the GMAT. For opt. the OAT score usually needed is much lower (usually average is 320-330).

 

[Chr147]

Optometry is not the least competitive health-care profession. Lets look at the numbers! Only 17 opt schools in the US... average class size of 70 (MCO=33 ICO = 155) Thats not very many spots compared to other health professions.

Over 900 applied to ICO w/ only 150 spots. That means less than 20% make it. You will find that percentage is the same for just about every school. Now consider Osteopathic Medicine. MSU accepts 200 out of 750 aplicants. Furthur more it is a known stat a studnet who applies to medical school has about 50% chance of getting in. I dont know for sure, but just looking at numbers, I am sure its not that high for opt schools!

Also lets look at entering class profiles: You will find that they are almost the same GPA wise!

Optometry School
Osteopathic Medicine
Dental School

Dude, way to compare medical school competitiveness by using Ostepathic schools. The majority of medical schools are Allopathic. Why don't you use those numbers and see if they are comparable.
You can't just look at how many apply and how many get in. Look at the average GPA and what they have to go through (prereqs, MCAT vs OAT, etc)

If you were to read a description of the OAT and then read a description of the MCAT, the MCAT is obviously more rigorous. Ask people who have taken both.

And let me ask you this: If a student got into a US Allopathic Medical School, do you think this same student could get into an Optometry School. Most likely. Now switch the scenario around. If a student got into a US Optometry school, could that same student get into a US Allopathic School? eh. Depends.

 

[iloveoptometry]

Dude, way to compare medical school competitiveness by using Ostepathic schools. The majority of medical schools are Allopathic. Why don't you use those numbers and see if they are comparable.
You can't just look at how many apply and how many get in. Look at the average GPA and what they have to go through (prereqs, MCAT vs OAT, etc)

If you were to read a description of the OAT and then read a description of the MCAT, the MCAT is obviously more rigorous. Ask people who have taken both.

And let me ask you this: If a student got into a US Allopathic Medical School, do you think this same student could get into an Optometry School. Most likely. Now switch the scenario around. If a student got into a US Optometry school, could that same student get into a US Allopathic School? eh. Depends.

I definitely agree with u. when I said medical schools, I meant Allopathic schools not osteopathic. The only reason why I said Optometry is the least competitive because I have experienced that. I still think Pharmacy is way more competitive than Optometry because I applied to both pharmacy school and Optometry school. I applied to six different pharmacy schools and guess what? I didnt get in. I applied to four Optometry schools, and I got in to Three of them, PCO, ICO, and SCCO. Besides, demand for optometrists are going down. Trust me optometrists will make less money in the future. Let me rerank it.
I still think Allopathic Medical schools are the most competitive ones.
then Dentistry because DAT is way harder than GRE which Pre Vet have to take.
Then Osteopathic Medical schools
Then Vetnarian Schools
Then Pharmacy
Then Optometry (OAT is way easier than DAT or MCAT or even PCAT) I took both DAT and PCAT and they are harder than OAT. I took practice MCAT and it is really hard.

Trust me. just because there are 17 optometry schools in USA, that doesnt mean it is very competitive. Especially Puerto Rico, any one can go there.
Just think about it.
Optometry schools are producing way more optometrists than required.

 

[Hines302]

I am not saying Optometry school is more competitive than M.D. by no means..... but it is comparable to O.D. school. Secondly, why does it matter between D.O vs and M.D.! They do the exact same thing!! In every area of medicine you you will find D.O.s. They are real doctors, and furthur more, real Med Schools. And there GPA requirments are the same as for opt schools.

I go to a school where it take a 4.0 to get into the nursing program. Are we going to make the argument that nursing school is more competitive than all schools listed above??? Please dont make the same argument with Pharmacy. Depending on demand at certian parts of the country... certian programs are harder. Lets just leave it at that.

Not everyone who goes to Opt school does so cause they cant get into Med School. There are very smart optometrist out there... and very dumb MDs. Dude..... have a little respect for your profession!

 

[still_confused]

hehe there is no doubt med school is more competive, for those in doubt talk to one of your premed classmates in your chemistry class! optometry has less spots but also less applicants. you will find that most premeds refuse to consider other health professions especially optometry (which some view as not a real doctor and lacking in fame), med school attract MOST of the best and brightest and that is necessary as they are in charge of saving people's lives, curing cancer etc,

from my group of friends that are doing dentistry, most have lower gpas ~3.3 which is similiar to opt , my pharm friends are slightly higher 3.4 while my med friends are 3.5 and above (except this one dude who has a 2.9 wish him luck!)

test wise, the mcat is a killer so no doubt about that!

getting into med school is the hardest, but it doesnt take away from the competitivness of opt school. opt and med are separate paths and must be judged accordingly. as long as opt school is able to attract high quality candidates that can learn the material and become competent OD's it will remain competitive. as less people apply and the standards for admission decrease, that is when optometry no longer becomes competitive.

if opt school wasnt competitve, we would all get in!
comparing all these professions base on stats alone does little but promote each group to defend itself. people choose what they want to do and compete with thier peers accordingly

 

[Hines302]

Trust me optometrists will make less money in the future...... Optometry schools are producing way more optometrists than required.

Optometrist will never make less money than Pharmacist. Not going to happen by a long shot. Unless you want to work 12 hour shifts at Walmart 7 days a week. My dad is a adjunct pharmacy professor and a practicing pharmacist... and he highly encouraged me NOT to go into Pharmacy.

The demand for Optometrist is on the rise. The population is getting older, and more people need vision care. 90% of optometrist still work in private practices.... and the average income can range anywhere between 90K to 180K.

 

[iloveoptometry]

Optometrist will never make less money than Pharmacist. Not going to happen by a long shot. Unless you want to work 12 hour shifts at Walmart 7 days a week. My dad is a adjunct pharmacy professor and a practicing pharmacist... and he highly encouraged me NOT to go into Pharmacy.

The demand for Optometrist is on the rise. The population is getting older, and more people need vision care. 90% of optometrist still work in private practices.... and the average income can range anywhere between 90K to 180K.

I suggest u do some research. U will see all the statistics. if u wanna know where to find it, let me know. I will tell u. I think u should research it by urself. Most optometrists dont retire remember? it will go down. besides right now pharmacists make more money than ODs. a friend of mine makes 150K a year guess what? the OD i shadowed makes only 110K (he has been working for 7 years already).
Do some more research.

 

[Hines302]

150K doing what? working 80 hours a week? Or working Christmas or News Years? Maybe he works behind bullet proof glass? Not evert Pharmacist makes this high number... and conversly... not every optometrist makes that low of a number. And the ones that do, probally are content and happy with where they are. And if they are complaining they want more money, well then they are just lazy!

Let me ask you something. If you are an opt student and "love it so much".... why are you so negative about your profession? You really have nothing nice to say about it, or really dont care to defend it? Just wondering why?

 

[iloveoptometry]

150K doing what? working 80 hours a week? Or working Christmas or News Years? Maybe he works behind bullet proof glass? Not evert Pharmacist makes this high number... and conversly... not every optometrist makes that low of a number. And the ones that do, probally are content and happy with where they are. And if they are complaining they want more money, well then they are just lazy!

Let me ask you something. If you are an opt student and "love it so much".... why are you so negative about your profession? You really have nothing nice to say about it, or really dont care to defend it? Just wondering why?

I think that question is very personal. I am just telling u the truth. I dont want young students to make the same mistake I did. my friend doesnt work on Christmas or any holidays. I am serious. Remember, he is from California. a lot of pharmacists make that high. Do some research. DO SOME RESEARCH N DONT ASSUME

 

[still_confused]

you can still love your something and still criticize it, sticking your head in the sand is no way to "love" your profession. by raising issues and flaws, i think iloveoptometry is actually helping the profession so that people are more aware of the isssues and will try to fix it. no need for a bunch of rich ODs pretending its all good when in reality its not.

a glut of ODs is probably true ( i dont have any data) but as i learned in class about health services, having alot doesnt mean anything, its how they are distrbuted that matters. those willing to live in more rural and suburban areas (not Los Angeles or New YOrk CIty) should be fine salary wise.

110 k vs 150K wow, are we super elites or what? people are making 25K working 50 hours weeks at the recycling plant, no need to be greedy!

 

[Hines302]

I think that question is very personal. I am just telling u the truth. I dont want young students to make the same mistake I did. my friend doesnt work on Christmas or any holidays. I am serious. Remember, he is from California. a lot of pharmacists make that high. Do some research. DO SOME RESEARCH N DONT ASSUME

Well shoot... if this is all true maybe i should re-think optometry. (and thats a big IF its all true). I have a 3.6 GPA and a Pre-Med degree w/ a boat load of volunteer and leadership positions, maybe I should apply to D.O school. Tell me, does everyone in your class share the same negative views on the profession?

 

[iloveoptometry]

Well shoot... if this is all true maybe i should re-think optometry. (and thats a big IF its all true). I have a 3.6 GPA and a Pre-Med degree w/ a boat load of volunteer and leadership positions, maybe I should apply to D.O school. Tell me, does everyone in your class share the same negative views on the profession?

I dont know about other people, but two of my friends and I are applying to dental school this year again. In addition, I am applying to two pharmacy schools, UCSF and UCSD. If we get accepted, we will transfer. I dont know about DO schools or medical schools because 1 I dont wanna deal with MCAT, 2 it takes forever to become a physician.

 

[Ben Chudner]

I suggest u do some research. U will see all the statistics. if u wanna know where to find it, let me know. I will tell u. I think u should research it by urself. Most optometrists dont retire remember? it will go down. besides right now pharmacists make more money than ODs. a friend of mine makes 150K a year guess what? the OD i shadowed makes only 110K (he has been working for 7 years already).
Do some more research.

Well, I actually have done research on this subject, since I lecture on it. Here's what I can tell you:

1) As the baby boomer population ages, the need for eyecare will continue to rise.
2) The majority of OD's over the age of 50 are male (97%)
3) The majority of students graduating from OD school are female.
4) Statistically speaking, females are more likely to work part-time than males.

Based on the above information, we can expect to see a large number of retiring full-time doctors being replaced by part-time doctors. Therefore, all the workforce data that has been gathered state that we will not have a huge oversupply of OD's even with the current level of new OD's entering the profession every year.

On top of that, both the mean and median salaries for OD's have continued to rise just about every year.

 

[UABopt]

Certainly the degree of competitiveness of various programs varies from, state to state, region to region and country to country. The only fair way of comparing would be on a national level. With only 17 schools of optometry in the nation, and 2 of those in California and 1 in Puerto Rico, you only have a 16 in 51 or 31% chance of living in a state with an optometry school.

In 2004 there where 2,529 applicants to optometry school (this is the number of applicants not applications which is of course much higher) for about 1340 spots. This means that you had about a 53% chance of getting in to optometry school if you applied. In addition 95% of matriculates had completed a bachelors degree with an average GPA of about 3.35 ranging from and the Highest average GPA of 3.65 (UAB, Go UAB!!!) to the lowest average GPA 3.09 (Puerto Rico).

There were 35735 applicants to allopathic schools of medicine of which 17662 or about 49% were accepted with an average GPA of 3.62. 98% Had completed a bachelors degree.

The average entering 1st year at an Osteopathic school of medicine had a GPA of about 3.45.

Comparing pharmacy admissions to those previously mentioned is next to impossible as only 30% of pharmacy school applicants had completed their undergraduate education. As of right now it is the ‘norm’ for a pharmacy student to complete 2 years of undergraduate education and then go on to 4 years of pharmacy school. The average pharmacy school applicant who was admitted had a GPA of 3.43, but again if this is after having only finished 2 years of undergrad, these numbers would obviously be bloated as compared to somebody who has completed a bachelor’s degree.

 

[boon]

if i have a better gpa and oat score compare to the school i would want to apply, I would surely be accept for interview?

 

[Hines302]

...by raising issues and flaws, i think iloveoptometry is actually helping the profession so that people are more aware of the isssues and will try to fix it. no need for a bunch of rich ODs pretending its all good when in reality its not.

Your right... iloveoptometry is doing a lot to help the profession. She is bitching and complaining about on an online blog site and is dropping out of Opt school to go to Pharm School. Optometrist across the world are thanking you right now for your hard work and dedication!

Further more, I believe she is misrepresenting the views of the majority of Optometrist. I have worked along side 6 different O.D.'s and all of them loved their job, and thought highly of their profession. (plus there were making very nice money! 3 of them above 200K) It is true that there are some O.D.'s that hate there job.... but then again I have worked in a hospital and know lots of M.D.'s who wish they would have done something else than Medicine.

I first came to this website 3 days ago wanting to gain a better understanding of optometry and rather or not I was making a good career choice. Personally I am appalled at the lack of respect and pride students and doctors alike have for their profession and their colleagues. I cant say or not rather the profession has problems or not (what profession doesn’t)..... but complaining about them in an online blog is not going to fix any of them. There seems to be the same dozen or so people constantly complaining, but yet there are tens of thousands of practicing optometrist that are very happy with their job (and their pay).

Bottom line, I think it’s what you make of it. If you are a motivated and dedicated person you will find your niche in the profession that will make you happy. In my personal opinion.... it is lazy people that are always the ones that are complaining, and never willing to help themselves, or effect change!

Rest assured, that when I become a Doctor of Optometry I make ever effort to be at the forefront of optometry and a leader of my profession. I suggest some of you should stop wasting your education and do the same.

 

[still_confused]

Rest assured, that when I become a Doctor of Optometry I make ever effort to be at the forefront of optometry and a leader of my profession

as people have said over and over on this board, you must love/like very much the profession. no need for personal attacks (ODs dont behave that way 😀 )

if she is dropping it out, it is good for the profession because it means less competition for you and I! just kidding, judging by her name, she mustve really thought she loved the profession before going to opt school, and it is best for her to drop out and switch because she no longer likes it and will be miserable the rest of the way and i doubt she is lazy or she wouldnt have gotten as far as she did. i actually commed her for being true to herself and what she wants, i also wish her the best of luck, its childish to attack others, especially on a forum. this forum is to benefit us all not to put others down

and to be honest, most people bitch about thier jobs, its like a way to vent as no profession is perfect. IMO MDs, ODs, Dentists, Pharm etc have no right to bitch about the money they make as they make way more then most Americans. What they should bitch about is thier work environment and the
duties, but bitching about money is off limits.

as more experience people have said, this profession isnt for everyone. we definetly need ppl like you with that kind of spirit, make sure you remember this statement (what i quoted) when you are the making the big bucks (or not) and be that bring about positive change for the profession.

IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY! its about a profession ! i love the big bucks, but im not counting on optometry to get me rich, i count on it to bring satisfaction to my life

its a free country and we can do as we please, transfer to other schools and even post meaningless posts (like this one) on the internet!

god bless america! (and internet)

 

[still_confused]

. Where I live, the averages for MED and Pharmacy are about 3.9 and 3.7-3.8.

wow where are you from? at my school, barely anyone has a 3.9 (including humanities majors) much less premeds. with As being capped at around 20% for most science classes, if 3.9 is average, there are going to be many sad faces here come feb 👎 and for sure more then 20% of ucla premeds make med school (im guessing here but i find it hard to believe most wont make it, bright kids here) here a 3.7 and a 36 MCAT (+internship +volunteer experience) is knocking on the door of UCLA med. Pharm average is easily 3.4 . maybe ucla is just freaking hard but a 3.9 is almost impossible. i guess it varies by region

OAT IMO is not comparably to MCATs as opt schools do not weight it as much. for med school mcats and gpa are kinda used to screen people before sending out the secondary application (yes i know some schools send secondaries out
left and right) but to med schools with so many applicants they tend to weigh more on mcats and gpa to grant an interview

Opt schools i feel have more leeway with less applicants and allow more interviews (relative to med school) so OAT counts less.

i feel the OAT is to serve as a standard to your gpa (how much did you learn) and the interveiw is used to determine who will succeed in the OD program (inverview has alot more weight)

while mcats is to see how much better you are then the rest of the applicants and the interview is to show how fantastic you are compared to the others they interviewed. given the extreme volume of applicants and the competition involved, med schools have 2 hard to get through gateways (scores and interview) while opt has one (interview, with the scores gateway being more lax and thus the lower scores). lets face it, optometry is more forgiving towards bad grades and scores if they believe you have the motivation and skills to succeed (if not they just take your money 😡 )

i believe that once upon a time med school was like opt (more emphasis on the person) before it got super competitive and had to sift through applicants base on numbers (at least to start). if opt does not implode as many on this board suggest and the increase in applicants, we may see OATs and GPAs raise quickly as schools are force to screen through more and more application,


PS: sorry for the long post , but in regards to DOs vs MDs, yes they get the same training and both excellent doctors, but given the culture that puts MDs at the head of the pedestal and everything else as "fake doctors" in the eyes of premeds, most premeds, especiallly those with high scores and egoes refuese to consider DO and view it as second if not third rate. given this thinking (even though flawed and ******ed) probably leads to lower grades/scores for DO schools

 

[iloveoptometry]

Well, I actually have done research on this subject, since I lecture on it. Here's what I can tell you:

1) As the baby boomer population ages, the need for eyecare will continue to rise.
2) The majority of OD's over the age of 50 are male (97%)
3) The majority of students graduating from OD school are female.
4) Statistically speaking, females are more likely to work part-time than males.

Based on the above information, we can expect to see a large number of retiring full-time doctors being replaced by part-time doctors. Therefore, all the workforce data that has been gathered state that we will not have a huge oversupply of OD's even with the current level of new OD's entering the profession every year.

On top of that, both the mean and median salaries for OD's have continued to rise just about every year.

Please read this article before u said u have done enough research.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3921/is_200206/ai_n9095279
This is an article about ODs

PS. Dont think Ophthamologists are not gonna do anything if Optometrists expand their scope of practice.
You should know that it is okay to have Ophthamologists only in our society. Optometrists arent required since Ophthamologists do the same thing as Optometrists do. The Congress has the power to give the right and take it away. Optometrists' future isnt in good shape.

For dentists, pharmacists, physician, vet (u name it), there are no competition (unlike Ophthamologists and Optometrists)
Think again before u go into the field blindfully

For those who could get in to other medical schools, please try them out. (unless u really wanna be an OD for 100% sure, go for it. I dont wanna see another OD student regret about his or her decision)
For those who couldnt get in to other schools, u got no choice so stick with optometry.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Please read this article before u said u have done enough research.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3921/is_200206/ai_n9095279
This is an article about ODs

PS. Dont think Ophthamologists are not gonna do anything if Optometrists expand their scope of practice.
You should know that it is okay to have Ophthamologists only in our society. Optometrists arent required since Ophthamologists do the same thing as Optometrists do. The Congress has the power to give the right and take it away. Optometrists' future isnt in good shape.

For dentists, pharmacists, physician, vet (u name it), there are no competition (unlike Ophthamologists and Optometrists)
Think again before u go into the field blindfully

For those who could get in to other medical schools, please try them out. (unless u really wanna be an OD for 100% sure, go for it. I dont wanna see another OD student regret about his or her decision)
For those who couldnt get in to other schools, u got no choice so stick with optometry.

Let me quote from your "scientific" source:

"The conclusion that the supply of optometrists outstrips demand by such a great number is theory, not reality."

"The BLS job outlook for optometrists is positive, stating "Employment of optometrists is expected to grow about as fast as the average for all occupations through 2010"

"The demand for optometric services also will increase because of growth in the oldest age group, with their increased likelihood of cataracts, glaucoma, diabetes, and hypertension. Employment of optometrists also will grow due to greater recognition of the importance of vision care, rising personal incomes, and growth in employee vision care plans."

"The organization projects a shortage because of:

* aging physicians, who work fewer hours as they near retirement

* female physicians, who work an average of 20% fewer hours

* employed, salaried physicians

* younger docs who demand more personal time

* physicians who retire earlier

* residents who are permitted to work fewer hours."

"If the pace of medical education remains unchanged, then the shortage will become more severe."

"In optometry, financial opportunities are excellent and the growth potential is outstanding. From my perspective, oversupply is an irrelevant concept."

I would read the article more closely.

 

[iloveoptometry]

Let me quote from your "scientific" source:

"The conclusion that the supply of optometrists outstrips demand by such a great number is theory, not reality."

"The BLS job outlook for optometrists is positive, stating "Employment of optometrists is expected to grow about as fast as the average for all occupations through 2010"

"The demand for optometric services also will increase because of growth in the oldest age group, with their increased likelihood of cataracts, glaucoma, diabetes, and hypertension. Employment of optometrists also will grow due to greater recognition of the importance of vision care, rising personal incomes, and growth in employee vision care plans."

"The organization projects a shortage because of:

* aging physicians, who work fewer hours as they near retirement

* female physicians, who work an average of 20% fewer hours

* employed, salaried physicians

* younger docs who demand more personal time

* physicians who retire earlier

* residents who are permitted to work fewer hours."

"If the pace of medical education remains unchanged, then the shortage will become more severe."

"In optometry, financial opportunities are excellent and the growth potential is outstanding. From my perspective, oversupply is an irrelevant concept."

I would read the article more closely.

"The AOA research predicts that the supply of optometrists is almost certain to increase at a greater rate than the population through the year 2010, and that an excess supply of optometrists seems likely over the next 10 years."
do u know about economics? supply and demand? if u have a lot of supplies, then the price will go down, that means optometrists will make less money.
Optometrists arent physicians. Optometrists arent doctors. They are just opticians who can treat a few diseases. if you ask a patient who he or she will see for his or her eyes, they will say ophthamologists if they have the insurance that covers for OMD. Personally, I will go to OMD because ODs didnt do 3 years of residency in that field. Would you rather have someone who is less trained treat ur eyes?

One more thing that might be interesting to u.
Optometrists are recognized in USA only. if u go to Asia / most countries in Europe/Africa/S.America, Optians are doing refraction, etc. as an OD, u can only work in USA because they arent globally recognized where as doctors and dentists are globally recognized. .

 

[Ben Chudner]

"The AOA research predicts that the supply of optometrists is almost certain to increase at a greater rate than the population through the year 2010, and that an excess supply of optometrists seems likely over the next 10 years."
do u know about economics? supply and demand? if u have a lot of supplies, then the price will go down, that means optometrists will make less money.
Optometrists arent physicians. Optometrists arent doctors. They are just opticians who can treat a few diseases. if you ask a patient who he or she will see for his or her eyes, they will say ophthamologists if they have the insurance that covers for OMD. Personally, I will go to OMD because ODs didnt do 3 years of residency in that field. Would you rather have someone who is less trained treat ur eyes?

One more thing that might be interesting to u.
Optometrists are recognized in USA only. if u go to Asia / most countries in Europe/Africa/S.America, Optians are doing refraction, etc. as an OD, u can only work in USA because they arent globally recognized where as doctors and dentists are globally recognized. .

You have quoted the one statement in the entire article that "proves" your point, but you ignored the fact that the author spends the rest of the article explaining why that statement is meaningless. Listen, I don't have to convince you to stay in optometry school (if you are really a student), but I would recommend when you link to an article to make your point, be sure the article in fact agrees with you. If you truely read the article you will find that even the author believes that the so called oversupply of OD's will not affect the profession.

As for your statements regarding OD's in other countries, that means nothing to me. I practice in the US, in a state in which I am recognized as an optometric physician. I am about to go into a room to see a patient visiting my area referred to me by an out-of-state OMD to rule out a retinal detachment. I guess some patients are willing to see an OD for more than glasses. 😉

 

[pre_opt_sku]

Umm...optometrists are recognized in my country.... I work in an ophthalmologist's office and trust me...they don't want to take over all the primary eye care. The would rather be spending time in the OR than fitting a pair of contact lenses. The surgery wait list is already a year and a half ...without optometrists, that list would only be bigger. I know this is not the same case everywhere, but that is the opinion of the doctors at the office that I work in.

 

[still_confused]

http://www.findarticles.com/p/artic...206/ai_n9095279

er i dont think you posted the right article, this article explains why there is not an oversupply and why optometry is a great profession and actually is a great article to quote if you support the profession! maybe you meant to post another article??? if so, the con side of optometry would be an interesting read. so far all the negatives about optometry are found mostly on forums while the positives are found on not only forums but published sources as well.....
at least you are not a lawyer, if you brought evidence like this that actually supports the other side... 👎

as far as practicing in other countries, you would not make the same money there as a physician, dentist, etc as you would make in the US, so i doubt there are many contemplating a move, not to mention unless you are fluent in the language you will be seeing a grand total of zero patients bringing your income to effectively 0 (or worst).

and if you want to go the supply and demand route, please forumulate an argument that is more sophisticated then what we all learned in high school. economics is more then about the numbers, but how the numbers are distributed and while im no expert and am very naive, im not naive enough to look at some data (as apparantly you saw somewhere) and view it as fact. you mustve taken biostatistics or other study design classes to know that right?

as far as ODs arent real doctors, sure ill agree with that, so are PhDs also not real doctors? go to one of you professors or better yet at one your pharm school interviews that has a PhD interviewing you and tell them that. "doctor" is just a phrase and we can interpert in whatever way we want.
and if you know your history about optometry, the profession started mainly to refract! there was an article in the AOA magazine that has some guy complaining about with the new technology and legislation, optometry is becoming more and more detached from its roots. to each its own i guess.

as far as OD's being just a commodity,if there are no more ODs and opths are expected to do all thier duties, then according to your supply and demand arguement, opths will be able to charge exorbitant amounts of money for simple exams. dont expect the insurance company to be supporting the OD exodus anytime soon (unless of course they decide they made enough money and wants to call it quits )

 

[3eb4me]

I practice in the US, in a state in which I am recognized as an optometric physician.

Wasn't there a huge discussion about the term optometric physician? 👎

 

[sco1styear]

"The AOA research predicts that the supply of optometrists is almost certain to increase at a greater rate than the population through the year 2010, and that an excess supply of optometrists seems likely over the next 10 years."
do u know about economics? supply and demand? if u have a lot of supplies, then the price will go down, that means optometrists will make less money.
Optometrists arent physicians. Optometrists arent doctors. They are just opticians who can treat a few diseases. if you ask a patient who he or she will see for his or her eyes, they will say ophthamologists if they have the insurance that covers for OMD. Personally, I will go to OMD because ODs didnt do 3 years of residency in that field. Would you rather have someone who is less trained treat ur eyes?

One more thing that might be interesting to u.
Optometrists are recognized in USA only. if u go to Asia / most countries in Europe/Africa/S.America, Optians are doing refraction, etc. as an OD, u can only work in USA because they arent globally recognized where as doctors and dentists are globally recognized. .

Harbin Medical University (HMU), School of Optometry, China. HMU was established in 1999 with a three-year curriculum. In the first year, optometry students share basic science classes with medical students. The remaining years are devoted to optometric studies and clinical experiences. Ciuffreda’s goal is to assist the university and faculty in developing the necessary expertise to implement the optical, optometric and vision science portions of the curriculum. (No optometrists recognized in asia???)

Then let's not forget that Australia, India, Jordan, and numerous other countries that DO recognize optometrists. Get your facts straight.

My new theory...you have zero knowledge about the profession; we shouldn't waste our time trying to inform you.

 

[still_confused]

http://www.worldoptometry.org/FellowshipArticle.htm

http://www.worldoptometry.org/members.htm

would be nice to have even more countries tho 😡

but hopefully with more exposure and need, optometry as a profession can grow not just in the US, but throughout the world as well

 

[iloveoptometry]

Harbin Medical University (HMU), School of Optometry, China. HMU was established in 1999 with a three-year curriculum. In the first year, optometry students share basic science classes with medical students. The remaining years are devoted to optometric studies and clinical experiences. Ciuffreda’s goal is to assist the university and faculty in developing the necessary expertise to implement the optical, optometric and vision science portions of the curriculum. (No optometrists recognized in asia???)

Then let's not forget that Australia, India, Jordan, and numerous other countries that DO recognize optometrists. Get your facts straight.

My new theory...you have zero knowledge about the profession; we shouldn't waste our time trying to inform you.

Only one school in China? LOL Just because they have the school that doesnt mean they are recognized. is there a law saying that Optometrists can do refraction legally? Most opticians are doing refraction in China. Dont tell me that bull craps.

 

[iloveoptometry]

Wasn't there a huge discussion about the term optometric physician? 👎

I agree. Optometrists are not physicians LOL. That term is used in FL and guess what? Optometrists in FL cant even prescribe oral medication LOL.
Think about it

 

[iloveoptometry]

http://www.worldoptometry.org/FellowshipArticle.htm

http://www.worldoptometry.org/members.htm

would be nice to have even more countries tho 😡

but hopefully with more exposure and need, optometry as a profession can grow not just in the US, but throughout the world as well

LOL I check out that website. How many countries are there? not even 50 LOL Dont tell me about affiliate. 50 is only a third of the world. Lo

 

[Katalio]

One more thing that might be interesting to u.
Optometrists are recognized in USA only. if u go to Asia / most countries in Europe/Africa/S.America, Optians are doing refraction, etc. as an OD, u can only work in USA because they arent globally recognized where as doctors and dentists are globally recognized. .

Hey! Optometrist are recognized in US only?? have you ever heard of a country a bit North of US called CANADA?

 

[iloveoptometry]

Hey! Optometrist are recognized in US only?? have you ever heard of a country a bit North of US called CANADA?

In North America, Canada and US recognize Optometrists only. Mexico doesnt. so there u go. Canada does anything US does. So forget Canada. USA is almost the same as Canada.

 

[still_confused]

if we look at the top 25 economies in terms of GDP in the world
optometry?
1World NA
2United States Yes
3European Union varies
4China yes
5Japan yes
6India yes
7Germany yes
8United Kingdom yes
9France no
10Italy yes
11Brazil yes
12Russia no
13Canada yes
14Mexico no
15Spain yes
16Korea, South no
17Indonesia no
18Australia yes
19Taiwan yes
20Thailand no
21Iran no

source : http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html

lets face it, these countries have the most clout and has most of the world's wealth. so 12/19 (EU is excluded) the top 20 economies, and 9/10 of the top 10 (france) has optometry as a profession. of course the development of optometry is each country varies but they exist nonetheless are is growing.

if you plan on living in a country not on that list, then being an optometrist is suicidal, if not, you should be fine (anyone want to live in Iran with Bush in power?)

and " canada is just like the US and forget canada"? are you some kind of crazy american nationalist that seeks canada as the 51st state? even a cursory look at canada vs US reveals VAST differences (im sure canadiens agree). first of all, the health care system is totally different, in some parts they even speak a different language (french), and they actually care about the NHL lockout!



i totally agree with you that optometrist are not medical doctors, it even says so in the degree (OD= optometry doctor)! a MD = medical doctor, noone is trying to refute that. i did like listening to your opinion and analysis (both sides of the story is important) but belittling the profession ........... 😴



PS
phy·si·cian Audio pronunciation of "physician" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (f-zshn)
n.

1. A person licensed to practice medicine; a medical doctor.
2. A person who practices general medicine as distinct from surgery.
3. A person who heals or exerts a healing influence.

www.dictionary.com

 

[ApothRM]

150K doing what? working 80 hours a week? Or working Christmas or News Years? Maybe he works behind bullet proof glass? Not evert Pharmacist makes this high number... and conversly... not every optometrist makes that low of a number. And the ones that do, probally are content and happy with where they are. And if they are complaining they want more money, well then they are just lazy!

Let me ask you something. If you are an opt student and "love it so much".... why are you so negative about your profession? You really have nothing nice to say about it, or really dont care to defend it? Just wondering
why?

HEy,
Actually you dont have to work 80 huors a week to make 150k as a pharmacists. My 3 preceptors each make b/t 130-150k and work b/t 50-55 hours a week. Not a bad gig.

Anyways optometry is an extremely rewarding profession..I have several friends that are practicing and have nothing bad to say about their scope of pratice. But, like every job, there are going to be some drawbacks..

 

[sco1styear]

Like I said earlier
I think we need to stop wasting our time. It's impossible to have reasonable discussions with some people.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

I dont know about other people, but two of my friends and I are applying to dental school this year again. In addition, I am applying to two pharmacy schools, UCSF and UCSD. If we get accepted, we will transfer. I dont know about DO schools or medical schools because 1 I dont wanna deal with MCAT, 2 it takes forever to become a physician.

iloveoptometry... Why dwell on the negative? If you truly despise the profession of optometry... why are you spending hours on an optometry forum? Shouldn't you be studying for the PCAT or DAT or whatever other test you need to get into whatever school it is that will make you happy? I don't know how many minds you would be able to change in a forum that is arguably "pro-optometry"...

 

[UABopt]

In North America, Canada and US recognize Optometrists only. Mexico doesnt. so there u go. Canada does anything US does. So forget Canada. USA is almost the same as Canada.

Who cares what countries outside of the USA recognize optometrists? Do you think that you can just pick up and move to any country you wish, and begin working? Yeah right… everybody knows there is a mass American exodus to Mexico, it is vitally important to choose a profession which is recognized there [sarcasm].

Moving from one country to another is not as easy as moving from say Florida to California. Even an MD or DDS could not simply pick a country, move there, and practice.

In fact there are several professors at UAB that were MDs in their home country, but who cannot practice in the US as they have neither completed the USMLE or a residency in the US. The irony is of course that while they are not allowed to practice medicine, they participate in the training of hundreds of future Doctors, Dentists and Optometrists in the US each year.

Why on earth would you pick a profession based on its existence, or lack there of, in foreign countries? Regardless of what profession you pick, you will be pretty much stuck in the country in which you trained, unless you are willing to make a great effort to move. Lawyers, Doctors, dentists, Pharmacists, and optometrists would all have great difficulties being certified to practice outside the US, even in Canada, which as you put it is ‘is almost the same as’ the USA.

 

[pre_opt_sku]

In North America, Canada and US recognize Optometrists only. Mexico doesnt. so there u go. Canada does anything US does. So forget Canada. USA is almost the same as Canada.

I'm not even going to waste my time to reply to that...