Competitivness for IMGs

[JudoKing01]

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I'm sure someone probably asked this already, but I've looked a bit and really just want to ask, so any answers would be greatly appreciated 😳

I'm a US citizen going to a foreign school in the caribbean that has the clinical years in the US, and is recognized by US residencies. I've read that neurology isn't exactly a competitive field, but would this hold true for someone like myself?

 

[JudoKing01]

Wow, I forgot I posted this. Guess no one cared enough to answer dammit.

 

[PainDr]

If your US rotation grades and board scores are good, you should be able to get in somewhere. If they're outstanding you could even shoot for some of the better programs. However, you won't know for sure until you apply. Since it's better to apply to too many vs too few programs, you should apply WIDELY (40-50 programs) and schedule as many interviews as you can. When I was on the interview trail, I met another candidate who went on 25 interviews because he was afraid of not matching...I told him he was insane. Schedule as many interviews as you can, then you can always cancel some if you end up with too many. If you go to at least 7-8 interviews you'll probably match. 😀

 

[JudoKing01]

Ha, I definately was planning on interviewing at like 30 places if I could. I'll do anything as long as I match, lol.

 

[Braveheart]

Ha, I definately was planning on interviewing at like 30 places if I could. I'll do anything as long as I match, lol.

Judo, where in the carribbean are u going to school? Just curious about XUSOM

 

[JudoKing01]

Xavier Univ. SOM in Bonaire.

 

[Braveheart]

So why did you choose XUSOM over Ross U. and SGU?

 

[JudoKing01]

There was a tighter student to teacher ratio, they had really good usmle pass rates and residency placements, it was cheaper than sgu (don't know about ross), and I just liked it better. I got along with the faculty I spoke to really well and it clicked. Just one of those things, you know?

 

[rrreagan]

I'm sure someone probably asked this already, but I've looked a bit and really just want to ask, so any answers would be greatly appreciated 😳

I'm a US citizen going to a foreign school in the caribbean that has the clinical years in the US, and is recognized by US residencies. I've read that neurology isn't exactly a competitive field, but would this hold true for someone like myself?

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Good question. I'm a US grad and had trouble scrambling into post-match Neurology spots.

You probably will have more trouble as an FMG.

Neurology is apparently getting incresingly competitive.

 

[PainDr]

I guess I didn't notice where you're planning to go to school. I've never heard of that one...how long has it been around? The reason I ask is that some programs will not consider applicants from new or unknown schools. My program has a formal policy of not considering applicants from schools that have been in existence for less than 15 years. You really should consider reapplying to US schools or going to St. George. or Ross. Those are the only two most people are familiar with and they've both been around a while. Have you actually talked to any of the alumni? DO NOT assume the statistics they are advertising are really true. Statistics can be manipulated in a multitude of ways. Being a carrib grad will be hard enough as it is...and it will be hard...don't make it worse by going someplace no one has heard of.

 

[PainDr]

I just checked their web site...brand new and not even recognized by WHO. This is a BIG problem!!! I can't imagine ANY ACGME accredited residency accepting people from schools not yet recognized by WHO. You better call some alumni and find out how they got around this issue!

 

[ThinkFast007]

I just checked their web site...brand new and not even recognized by WHO. This is a BIG problem!!! I can't imagine ANY ACGME accredited residency accepting people from schools not yet recognized by WHO. You better call some alumni and find out how they got around this issue!

To the OP

i was just browsing the neuro forum for the heck of it. Granted i dont know too much about neuro. All i can is that at the places that i've rotated through during my 3rd year (i'm a US grad by the way) the neuro depts were PACCCCCCCCKed with FMGs. I'm talking people from india, etc. So, I'm not sure which one is better an FMG from a carib school or from india (ppl will argue both ways, but a lot of ppl say schools in india are better) but they (FMGs) get residencies in this field...

 

[PainDr]

As a pgy-4 neuro resident (graduating in 1 week...yea!!!!) with lots of friends in the field, I DO know quite a bit about neurology residencies. I've participated in our rank list meeting every year and can tell you that carrib grads ARE treated differently than other IMGs/FMGs. BTW, although my program is quite good, it is certainly not Ivy League and even we would never choose a carrib grad over an FMG. I've heard the discussions and fair or not, there is always a concern about why an applicant couldn't get into a US school. For every carrib grad with great numbers, there are 3-4 FMGs with equal or better numbers. They always go with the FMG. Granted, I don't know how all programs feel, but the several I do know of feel very strongly about this. If you are a carrib grad the one way to influence this attitude (other than stellar numbers) is to do an audition rotation and blow everyone away. Then they'll remember you as "that awesome student we had" and not "oh...he's a carrib grad, let's move on".

 

[medlaw06]

For every carrib grad with great numbers, there are 3-4 FMGs with equal or better numbers. They always go with the FMG.

just browing and wanted to ask a quick question about this. my sister is thinking about going to the carribean for medical school, so i thought i would ask.

Dr.Pain...is it because PDs think that FMGs were for the most part physicians in their respective countries and thus have a slightly better understanding of "stuff" than med students? just curious

thanks

 

[DrBowtie]

I would say mostly that FMG's aren't penalized for getting a medical situation in their own system. While MOST IMG's went there b/c they couldn't get into the US.

 

[AznTrojan]

exactly..

heck.. some of these FMGs are in fact attendings in their own country.. but have decided to come to the u.s. to re-do their residency and get paid bigger bucks..

I would say mostly that FMG's aren't penalized for getting a medical situation in their own system. While MOST IMG's went there b/c they couldn't get into the US.

 

[bigfrank]

I'm sure someone probably asked this already, but I've looked a bit and really just want to ask, so any answers would be greatly appreciated 😳

I'm a US citizen going to a foreign school in the caribbean that has the clinical years in the US, and is recognized by US residencies. I've read that neurology isn't exactly a competitive field, but would this hold true for someone like myself?

I got to a school with a well-known and large neurology department. We have a few IMG's in the field, so I would imagine you can find a spot somewhere.

 

[HYJunkie]

Hi,

I am an IMG (or FMG as you seem to make the distinction) struggling to complete my CAS. I obviously have several newbie questions that will strech to the max your tolerance, empathy, love for fellow human beings and innate desire to help...

Dumbest, and no. 1: I've been reading the various reviews and listings posted on this forum, and I always stumble upon some string seemingly hinting at the name Washington. It seems to be a good program, but I cannot really locate it. How do I know if people speak of George Washington University in DC, Washington University in St. Louis, MO or of University of Washington in Seattle, WA? Please shed some light, if at all possible.

No. 2: Many programs say that eligibility depends on sending copies of the ECFMG Certificate and of the US Visa... This seems a little strange to me. Any IMG residents around? Do these programs actually need us to be certified in order to get an interview, or they simply require one to be certified by Match day (like normal residency programs?). This all the more strange b/c one starts with PGY-1 that is secured via NRMP and, as a consequence, the Certificate should be available just like for any other specialty, by the NRMP deadline... 😕 And the visa?... What visa? My tourist visa? Is it a real fact that these programs require that I already have a non-immigrant visa or permanent residence? I'm lost...

No. 3 Some programs' sites say that there is no need for a separate application via NRMP for their PGY-1. Is it indeed possible?!

Final one (and finally quite on topic): so, as I said -- IMG/FMG, graduated last year, no US clinical experience; some research, but all at home; Step 1 - 229/93, will take CS in a week or so, and 2 CK early in September. Strong (and documented) desire to become a neurologist. What (if anything) should I aim for in terms of programs?

I will be grateful for any idea. Thanks for your help.

 

[Methyldopa]

Dumbest, and no. 1:Washington University in St. Louis is the best "Washington" school

No. 2: can't help you there

No. 3: Yes it is possible

Final one (and finally quite on topic): aim wide and far, no one can really tell you what your chances are, and applying widely for you makes sense. Anyway what does it really cost you to apply widely? Other than money? Sweet, sweet money. . .

 

[PhineasGage]

Wash U is an excellent program. Although I didn't apply there, the reputation is great, and fellow applicants had a very positive impression. In the highly subjective rankings of many residents, attendings, applicants, and posters to this board, it is one of the 10 "best" programs in the country, maybe even top-5.

U Washington (Seattle) was an excellent program with critical mass and a lot of growth of late (faculty expansion). Location, patient base, and knowledge of the faculty appeared outstanding when I visited. I think it's considered a top-15 program, perhaps 3rd "best" on the West Coast to UCSF and UCLA. The program seems to have excellent potential to move up on those subjective rankings, and may be underrated even now.

Can't comment on the rest of the "washingtons"... I don't think they are as competitive as the two above.

-PG

 

[kasimagore1]

The strength of the UW (Seattle) program, besides the subjective factors(location, prestige, etc), is that each major teaching hospital has its distinct flavor of patient population. UWMC is the major referral hospital for the 5 state area, and you will see pretty much all the zebras you' ve read on the textbook in both inpatient as well as clinic patient. It's quite common to see 2nd or 3rd opinion referred patients in the specialty clinic. Harborview is known for the acute management of critical neuro patient- ie head bleeds, head trauma, ischemic stroke, and all kinds of drug ODs. It's an insanely busy hospital as the great majority of the head bleed patients ended up @ HMC. Patient population is c/w most county, inner city hospital, and given there are many immigrants in Seattle, you would get to see many advanced, but uncommon CNS diseases in the US. Seattle VA is the regional SCI referral hospital. You will also treat many patients who do not take responsibility of taking care themselves (ie. 30 pk/yr smoke + fatty food --->stroke----->more smoking and junk food ---> more strokes--->). I think the residents here learn by volume of patient they see. Didectics is not as strong as UCSF. Although the attendings are excellent, they are not the "master" neurologists who wrote the major textbooks/ practice influencing papers in his/her field (except for Neuro ID and neurogenetics).

 

[novacek88]

As a pgy-4 neuro resident (graduating in 1 week...yea!!!!) with lots of friends in the field, I DO know quite a bit about neurology residencies. I've participated in our rank list meeting every year and can tell you that carrib grads ARE treated differently than other IMGs/FMGs. BTW, although my program is quite good, it is certainly not Ivy League and even we would never choose a carrib grad over an FMG. I've heard the discussions and fair or not, there is always a concern about why an applicant couldn't get into a US school. For every carrib grad with great numbers, there are 3-4 FMGs with equal or better numbers. They always go with the FMG. Granted, I don't know how all programs feel, but the several I do know of feel very strongly about this. If you are a carrib grad the one way to influence this attitude (other than stellar numbers) is to do an audition rotation and blow everyone away. Then they'll remember you as "that awesome student we had" and not "oh...he's a carrib grad, let's move on".

Is this a joke? Neurology is ridiculously uncompetitive. I'm a DO, and I know several DO's let alone US-IMG's who are neurology fellows. If you are U.S. IMG, and you have respectable numbers, you shouldn't have any trouble getting into a neurology program somewhere in the Unites States. There is always some program that thinks they are bigger than their britches and your program clearly sounds like that. If your program is an Ivy or a top 20 program, you have my apologies but if it isn't bwaha ha ha ha ha ha.

I'm sure there is an endocrine fellowship somewhere in the country that refuses to take IMG's and considers their field really competitive! Maybe your program is just competitive and elitist but many other programs would be happy to take an IMG if he or she was competitive. I'm an intern at an allopathic program and our neurology department practically tries to beg us to apply to their program. It's sort of a well known joke among the residents.