Computer Science-based PhD options of MD/PhD

[philosonista]

I must say that google is not very helpful in this regard. But I would love to know.

I love neuroscience, as well as computer science. Which PhD program options are there for people like me. I'm also interest in computer science research not tied to neuroscience.

Another stipulation: I will have taken only 3 or four computer science courses when I graduate because I discovered it so late. But I do genuinely love it.

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[bd4727]

If you have good computational skills most of the leading fields will want you badly (molecular/structural biochem, genetics, neuroscience). There is also a high demand for computational skills even in more 'traditional' areas, although there they will basically want you to run analyses others have already invented versus creating your own computational analysis. Feel free to PM me (PhD in computational genetics) but basically you will be in high demand so don't worry. Also scientist are generally terrified of computational things so just being able to do hello world is impressive to them...

 

[haanman]

Agree with bd4727--you'll have lots of options, both in and out of neuro. Many grad students who are interested in computational work have less experience than you already do, and comp bio/bioinformatics programs accommodate a wide range of backgrounds and areas of expertise from incoming students. When you apply, ask about opportunities for computational research, and look for programs with strong institutional support for it. Good luck!

 

[referee3]

The market is good for someone who wants to go into computational bio. I know a MD/PhD student at RWJMS who is doing his PhD in computational protein modeling.

 

[dl2dp2]

The market is good...

Not sure what this means. The "market" is not "good" for anyone. If you have PhD in a computational field, your options OUTSIDE of academia expands significantly. The academic market remains the same ol' pile of crap: funding, publication, connections, etc. Maybe a touch less competitive, but not significantly so and definitely wouldn't be what I call "good".

 

[bd4727]

Not sure what this means. The "market" is not "good" for anyone. If you have PhD in a computational field, your options OUTSIDE of academia expands significantly. The academic market remains the same ol' pile of crap: funding, publication, connections, etc. Maybe a touch less competitive, but not significantly so and definitely wouldn't be what I call "good".

Agreed academia is not a good place to be, but I think perhaps the poster meant that you will be able to do things that make you competative in academia with computational skills that others won't. For example, knowing a few simple analyses can get you literally 10+ coauthorships / yr by just helping your neighboring labs do stuff they are scared to learn. The turn around on computational projects is a lot faster than traditional wet lab work, so your number of primary pubs can be greater all else being equal. NIH is coming out with a lot of new 'big data' focused grants and supergrants, etc. If you had to be in academia trying to cut it as a young PI, I would argue your chances are higher than being like a classical molecular biologist in immunology... guess I don't have data to support this but gut feeling. Full disclosure-- I have no interest in academia myself.

 

[Duprass]

I must say that google is not very helpful in this regard. But I would love to know.

I love neuroscience, as well as computer science. Which PhD program options are there for people like me. I'm also interest in computer science research not tied to neuroscience.

Another stipulation: I will have taken only 3 or four computer science courses when I graduate because I discovered it so late. But I do genuinely love it.

What about the computer science do you like?

At the graduate level it's less programming and more abstract math, which is fun maybe but mostly irrelevant. Undergrad is learning to program, objects, data structures, etc. and the stuff you probably like.

I think you'd like bioinformatics.

 

[Neuronix]

I did half a comp sci degree as an undergrad, but got bored of just programming. Too much mixing of work and pleasure I guess. So I switched to neuroscience. I went to a biophysics/engineering lab for my PhD and did a lot of device programming and simulation work. It was clinically relevant and used my skills. So I agree with with many in this thread. Keep an open mind.

The other thing to consider is that grad programs outside of the med school often don't play nice with MD/PhDs with regards to time to graduation, funding, etc. It's usually better to be in a biomedical science department for degree integration purposes.

 

[globe199]

I also discovered my interest in computation very late in my undergrad. So late that I never got to take any computer science classes at all! For me, it was born out of an interest in physics and math that I also did not realize I had until late in college. My last few semesters were full of math classes!

I still joined a 100% computational lab for my MSTP thesis, and I've had to learn programming and computer science on my own, essentially from scratch. The first thing I did was watch a postdoc in my lab code for a few days...I feel I have a bit of an easier time learning because of my math background, but it still takes a lot of effort. Regardless, it's extremely rewarding when a program you've been struggling to write finally works! It's concrete proof you've learned something.

Plus, I love being able to work from home! I'll never miss traveling through bad weather just to go collect a reaction product or a cell culture or whatever else people do in wet labs.

 

[Duprass]

I also discovered my interest in computation very late in my undergrad. So late that I never got to take any computer science classes at all! For me, it was born out of an interest in physics and math that I also did not realize I had until late in college. My last few semesters were full of math classes!

I still joined a 100% computational lab for my MSTP thesis, and I've had to learn programming and computer science on my own, essentially from scratch. The first thing I did was watch a postdoc in my lab code for a few days...I feel I have a bit of an easier time learning because of my math background, but it still takes a lot of effort. Regardless, it's extremely rewarding when a program you've been struggling to write finally works! It's concrete proof you've learned something.

Plus, I love being able to work from home! I'll never miss traveling through bad weather just to go collect a reaction product or a cell culture or whatever else people do in wet labs.

What sort of computational stuff do you do?

 

[globe199]

What sort of computational stuff do you do?

I would call it structural biochemistry. It's a mix of bioinformatics-type work and molecular dynamics simulations on proteins. My project tends to be rather applied, but I do like thinking about the more theoretical (maybe even esoteric?) aspects that arise, like the differential geometry of protein structure. Theory's more like a strange hobby for me!

 

[ellealla]

I am doing an MD and a PhD in Computer Science. My undergraduate experience was one computer science class taken in my senior year (that's what got me interested in CS) and a couple programming-heavy genetics courses (second-semester senior year). I worked one year as a research programmer afterwards before starting the MD PhD program, which gave me some practical CS experience. It's been a bit difficult catching up with some of the theoretical CS background that I need (the folks in my PhD program who studied CS in undergrad obviously started out knowing more CS than me) BUT it's entirely doable. There are SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES to combine CS with medicine. There are a ton of people in CS who really, really benefit from a medical perspective. I have been surprised by how helpful it is to have a medical background when tackling my research questions. It will let you avoid the common pitfall of designing a new method that is in fact entirely useless based on the way medicine actually works in real life. My research does focus on medical computer science projects, but if you're doing an MD and a PhD (even a computational one), it makes sense for your PhD to have some kind of medical or biological connection The key is to choose a program that will allow you to pursue a computational PhD. I only interviewed at MD PhD programs that would give me the freedom to pursue a PhD in whatever area I wished. There are some MD PhD programs that explicitly restrict the types of PhDs you can pursue, e.g. only biological options. However, some MD PhD programs will let you pursue a PhD in whatever area you want, even if it's computer science. Just make sure you ask when you're interviewing, to ensure you end up at a program that will match your interests. I would highly encourage anyone interested in computation and MD PhD programs to choose an MD + computer science PhD. You will have more opportunities than you can possibly take advantage of, and you'll get to work with a lot of awesome people.

 

[FredChang]

I am doing an MD and a PhD in Computer Science. My undergraduate experience was one computer science class taken in my senior year (that's what got me interested in CS) and a couple programming-heavy genetics courses (second-semester senior year). I worked one year as a research programmer afterwards before starting the MD PhD program, which gave me some practical CS experience. It's been a bit difficult catching up with some of the theoretical CS background that I need (the folks in my PhD program who studied CS in undergrad obviously started out knowing more CS than me) BUT it's entirely doable. There are SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES to combine CS with medicine. There are a ton of people in CS who really, really benefit from a medical perspective. I have been surprised by how helpful it is to have a medical background when tackling my research questions. It will let you avoid the common pitfall of designing a new method that is in fact entirely useless based on the way medicine actually works in real life. My research does focus on medical computer science projects, but if you're doing an MD and a PhD (even a computational one), it makes sense for your PhD to have some kind of medical or biological connection The key is to choose a program that will allow you to pursue a computational PhD. I only interviewed at MD PhD programs that would give me the freedom to pursue a PhD in whatever area I wished. There are some MD PhD programs that explicitly restrict the types of PhDs you can pursue, e.g. only biological options. However, some MD PhD programs will let you pursue a PhD in whatever area you want, even if it's computer science. Just make sure you ask when you're interviewing, to ensure you end up at a program that will match your interests. I would highly encourage anyone interested in computation and MD PhD programs to choose an MD + computer science PhD. You will have more opportunities than you can possibly take advantage of, and you'll get to work with a lot of awesome people.

Hi, I am very impressed by your accomplishment! I am currently a CS undergraduate trying to pursue a Computational Biology P.hD(heavy on data science, but working on cancer genomics). Do you think it would be possible for me to apply for a three year fast tracking MD(following a 3 years residency for physician scientist)(something like that offered in NYU//Columbia) later in my career. I really want to do a P.hD-MD, but it’s kind of hard for my situation right now. My ultimate goal will be a physician scientist.(I have strong preference to research, but I also want to see patients eventually in the future). Please give me some advices! Thank you so much!!!!

 

[ellealla]

Yes, I do think it would be possible for you to do a 3 year M.D. after getting a PhD. I do know some people who did 3 year MDs after getting PhDs - however the "3 year MD" only worked because they went to medical schools that had a research year built into the 4-year MD and they got that research year waived because they already had a PhD. At almost every medical school, even if you have a PhD, an MD will take you 4 years to complete. If you are an undergraduate student currently and you know that you want to do an MD/PhD, then I would strongly advise you to apply directly for MD/PhD programs. Reasons: (1) a PhD is exhausting and at the end it will require a heroic amount of motivation and energy to take the MCAT and do medical school interviews. That's not to say it cannot be done - it definitely has been done - just that it's less convenient than doing a combined MD/PhD program where you only have to apply once, at the beginning, for both degrees at the same time. I think it's logistically and psychologically easier to complete the whole thing if it's bundled together. (2) many MD/PhD programs are fully funded, just like PhD programs, so if you do a combined MD/PhD program then the entire thing including the MD can be paid for and you will have a stipend throughout. However if you do a PhD followed by an MD, you will have to take out loans for the MD (unless you are very wealthy and can pay for the MD out of pocket). Granted, I don't know the details of your situation, so if you think it would not be possible to apply for combined MD/PhD programs, then I would still definitely encourage you to pursue both degrees even if you have to pursue them separately.