Conceal carry

[Jrapp]

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This is not a sexy topic - I'm sure many on this board would consider it stupid.

Having been robbed multiple times in retail I however take this very seriously. I am aware of my company's policy and I am not looking to be a hero - I have a family I care about deeply. I have been warned by local cops that carrying and discharging a weapon in self defense may lead to civil charges by the potential robber and possibly job termination.

I have decided that my life is more important than any crackhead's drug urge and I fear facing one that is willing to hurt others here in the U.S.

If there is anyone out there who has the courage to conceal carry while at work at a chain please PM me on thoughts, tips.

And please I understand that there are many on here who find the idea of self defense and firearms repugnant - I am not speaking to you nor do I need your advice of giving the potential robber what he wants. I am alive today because I followed this advice but I also know a cat has so many lives.

Btw these robberies happened OUTSIDE the U.S. in gun free zones and I now practice in a hick town where everyone has a confederate flag and a shotgun in their house and meth is a big deal. The dependence on opioids and sleep aids is astounding

 

[NateRobinson]

To be completely honest, just stay away from this man. I completely agree with you when it comes to this topic. It is our 2nd amendment right to carry a gun, and I think everyone should be allowed to do so if they want to. It is our GIVEN right by the US constitution and no one should be able to take that away from us.

That being said, the world is very different right now. Do not bring a gun to the workplace, concealed or not. Just don't do it. Think of it this way- pharmacy robbers rob the place for one reason- to get narcotics or cash. 99% of the time, they come to get narcotics such as Oxycodone. They don't want to cause a scene, they don't want to murder you or anyone else, they want as little heat as possible. They want to come in, get their drugs, and get out. To this point, just give them what they want as quick as possible and send them on their way. Try and form a mental image of what they look like to give the police later. But do not try and be a hero. NOTHING good can come from it. You point a gun at them, he freaks out, shoots you in the head. What's the point? You end up dying. Or, you freak out and point the gun at him but end up pulling the trigger. Now you killed a man. Do you really want that on your conscience for the rest of your life?

Drugs such as percocet are dirt cheap as it is. If you're an independent pharmacy owner, you're not losing that much $$. The DEA will back you up when it comes to the loss. If you're working for a chain, then there is NO reason to not comply, as they all say to do so anyway.

Bottom line, pharmacy robbers want their fix. They just want to be back home as soon as possible with their pills. Just empty your god damn safe, give them everything and send them on their way. DO NOT make it more complicated than it needs to be. NOTHING good can from it. The times in the past where the pharmacist ended up dying at the hands of the robber probably happened because the RPH was hesitant in getting the drugs, talked back, didn't comply or fought back. Don't do any of these. Please man, for the sake of your family, for your community.

 

[Corpseman]

This is not a sexy topic - I'm sure many on this board would consider it stupid.

Yep.

If there is anyone out there who has the courage to conceal carry while at work at a chain please PM me on thoughts, tips.

It doesn't take courage, it takes stupidity.

Btw these robberies happened OUTSIDE the U.S. in gun free zones and I now practice in a hick town where everyone has a confederate flag and a shotgun in their house and meth is a big deal. The dependence on opioids and sleep aids is astounding

Well, I can see why you think you need a gun and it's not because your community is scary

 

[dread090]

This is not a sexy topic - I'm sure many on this board would consider it stupid.

Having been robbed multiple times in retail I however take this very seriously. I am aware of my company's policy and I am not looking to be a hero - I have a family I care about deeply. I have been warned by local cops that carrying and discharging a weapon in self defense may lead to civil charges by the potential robber and possibly job termination.

I have decided that my life is more important than any crackhead's drug urge and I fear facing one that is willing to hurt others here in the U.S.

If there is anyone out there who has the courage to conceal carry while at work at a chain please PM me on thoughts, tips.

And please I understand that there are many on here who find the idea of self defense and firearms repugnant - I am not speaking to you nor do I need your advice of giving the potential robber what he wants. I am alive today because I followed this advice but I also know a cat has so many lives.

Btw these robberies happened OUTSIDE the U.S. in gun free zones and I now practice in a hick town where everyone has a confederate flag and a shotgun in their house and meth is a big deal. The dependence on opioids and sleep aids is astounding

It seems this thread among MD's just a few years ago has a much friendlier reception: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/concealed-carry.797587/

My personal opinion: It's your life and you will take the measures that make you feel comfortable should a situation arise. People will talk about a worsening prognosis if you were to whip it out when a malicious individual shows up packing heat in your face, but you're not required to bust it out just because you have it either, it's dependent on the circumstances. Some options are better than no options where you're relying on a malicious person's mercy to let you go home alive. The whole point of conceal carry is that no one else knows you have it, but you know you're prepared. I have personally been in a dangerous situation as well where I had wished I was carrying, I am only alive here today due to pure luck as bullets that had my name on them were flying my direction.

Also, I'm sure everyone remembers the doctor who saved his own life as well as potentially many more last year by conceal carrying to his workplace: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...he-found-himself-in-life-and-death-situation/

 

[ExpressMaiL]

It's an interesting topic. Just know that if you do discharge your weapon, make sure you don't say anything to anyone after the incident; let your lawyer do all the talking, even if you think it was "completely justified." If you have to use deadly force, make sure it's on camera. BTW I'm not a lawyer so none of this should be taken as advice.

Case study #1: (I never carry without a round chambered. He racks the slide at :41 and shoots the robber while his (robber's) finger is presumably on the trigger and facing him. A very scary situation.)
Case study #2: An example of what not to do. Once the threat is neutralized, call the police and make sure they don't shoot you when you get there (ie. running out with a gun in your hand to wave them down).

There are so many things that can go wrong. Imagine if the pharmacist's gun jammed. Or, he accidentally shot and killed an employee/patient. Or, he shoots the robber and the robber's gun discharges, striking and killing the employee. Now he has 2 different next of kin coming after him. The thing is, next of kin will see dollar $igns from the pharmacy owner/corp and from you. Their lawyer will do an asset check and go after your trust/finances/property/insurance/wages/(this list goes on). Even worse, the store you're working for decides to throw you under the bus and sue you for discharging a weapon inside their store that led to someone's death, which of course, was against company policy.

There's a flip side to this; let's say the robber had the intent to steal narcotics and shoot anyone who didn't "comply." Personally, I'd rather be in a lawsuit for the next decade or two than be six feet underground, leaving my loved ones to do things "in remembrance of me." I'm not going to miss out on all the things I cherish in my life because some junkie wanted to get high.

Realistically, I think the best way to avoid this situation (as a SBO) is to minimize the chances of getting robbed. Eliminate opportunities where a thief may want to strike. Have cameras that are noticeable. If you're in a bad part of town, close early or hire security. If it's so bad, don't even stock/dispense schedule II drugs, with signs clearly posted. If you're going to open up a pharmacy past the R|R tracks, you had better understand the risks involved. Keep filling stations above eye level and train staff to close registers after transactions promptly. Have a silent alarm that can be utilized and do the proper maintenance to ensure proper function when needed. In the first video, even wearing body armor becomes an option.

Honestly, a lot of people who are anti-2nd amendment have not experienced violent crime first hand. Simply put, they will never understand. Suzanna Hupp's speech (Caste study #3: ) should be watched whether you're for or against gun control.

Lastly, there's nothing quite like the smooth action of a freshly oiled slide after a cleaning.

 

[Corpseman]

I never carry without a round chambered.

This may be the worst advice I have ever seen on this site. Just wow.

Honestly, a lot of people who are anti-2nd amendment have not experienced violent crime first hand. Simply put, they will never understand.

I am all for gun control and I have seen dozens people shot and killed around me. Maybe you just haven't seen enough violence to see that you are never safer with more guns around.

I would love to see you guys use some statistics to back up your claims of needing to carry a gun in a pharmacy.... not just your irrational fear levels either.

 

[Unchained]

I would love to see you guys use some statistics to back up your claims of needing to carry a gun in a pharmacy.... not just your irrational fear levels either.

Well Corpseman it seemed to work out fairly well in the first video.

I wouldn't recommend arming yourself if you work for a chain. I think independent owners should be armed if trained properly. They need to be trained to know when to pull and when not to. Chains should be required to provide some sort of protection outside of the advice of "just cooperate." This doesn't guarantee you won't be shot.

It would be difficult to find a statistic on arming yourself in a pharmacy for the simple fact that hardly any of us are armed.

I assume that you were in combat and have seen the horrors of war. Thank you for your service if that was the case. I don't know what sort of gun control you are speaking of however. You think total gun removal which is not possible is the answer? The gun laws passed in the US in the last 20 years have done nothing to reduce the murder rate. Example Washington,DC.

Also watch video of Suzanna Hupp. It can't be explained any better than that.

 

[ExpressMaiL]

I would love to see you guys use some statistics to back up your claims of needing to carry a gun in a pharmacy.... not just your irrational fear levels either.

Like I said, some people will never understand.

 

[Corpseman]

Well Corpseman it seemed to work out fairly well in the first video.

I wouldn't recommend arming yourself if you work for a chain. I think independent owners should be armed if trained properly. They need to be trained to know when to pull and when not to. Chains should be required to provide some sort of protection outside of the advice of "just cooperate." This doesn't guarantee you won't be shot.

It would be difficult to find a statistic on arming yourself in a pharmacy for the simple fact that hardly any of us are armed.

I assume that you were in combat and have seen the horrors of war. Thank you for your service if that was the case. I don't know what sort of gun control you are speaking of however. You think total gun removal which is not possible is the answer? The gun laws passed in the US in the last 20 years have done nothing to reduce the murder rate. Example Washington,DC.

Also watch video of Suzanna Hupp. It can't be explained any better than that.

I don't think total gun removal is the answer, I actually think that would be quite a dumb move. I think extensive background and mental health checks are needed as well as actual training on how to use a gun. I would like stats on robberies vs armed robberies vs robberies where shots were fired.

Like I said, some people will never understand.

If that someone is you then I completely agree.

 

[ExpressMaiL]

I don't think total gun removal is the answer, I actually think that would be quite a dumb move. I think extensive background and mental health checks are needed as well as actual training on how to use a gun. I would like stats on robberies vs armed robberies vs robberies where shots were fired.
If that someone is you then I completely agree.

🤣What is "actual training on how to use a gun?" Elaborate on this, because your opinion is a full we todd blanket statement. Also, this is the second time you've asked for statistics. Are you one of those idiots who go by statistics to define every choice in life? Since you're so insistent on seeing stats about robberies, why don't you educate us with stats that show how arming yourself is as dumb as you say it is? Do share.

"Irrational fear levels," haha that's a good one. Clearly you've never experienced violent crime to call the thought of a robber coming in with a gun to the pharmacy "irrational fear." Sheltered little boy.

 

[dread090]

Resist the dark side temptation to derail this thread into a pro/anti gun-control argument. Let's stay on topic, there's plenty of other places to get heated about having and not having firearms. There are no statistics that are viable for either side of the argument and to be honest, even if there were reliable and non-cherry picked numbers, would it change anyone's opinion? It never has and never will. What some call irrational fear and paranoia, as above, others call being prepared. Some choose to carry a full case of water when traveling through the desert in case they get stranded, others bet on blind faith. the second amendment is not going anywhere unless 2/3 of the states vote to repeal it, until then it's your choice whether to utilize it or not. I will not call people names for not exercising it, nor will I entertain any chastising for exercising my right. If everyone would adopt that thought there would be less pointless hatred towards one another.

 

[Corpseman]

🤣What is "actual training on how to use a gun?" Elaborate on this, because your opinion is a full we todd blanket statement. Also, this is the second time you've asked for statistics. Are you one of those idiots who go by statistics to define every choice in life? Since you're so insistent on seeing stats about robberies, why don't you educate us with stats that show how arming yourself is as dumb as you say it is? Do share.

"Irrational fear levels," haha that's a good one. Clearly you've never experienced violent crime to call the thought of a robber coming in with a gun to the pharmacy "irrational fear." Sheltered little boy.

I should expect as much from someone who can act like a tough guy behind a computer screen and a gun.

Best case scenario is that you dont accidentally shoot one of your co-workers, worst case scenario is that you accidentally shoot one of your co-workers. Then again you are more likely to have a technician steal inventory from you than experience an armed robbery where you have to actually defend yourself. So, last piece of advice? Don't kill that technician.

Good luck in life. I hope you find peace from whatever violence you experienced.

 

[Old Timer]

Why on God's name would you risk your six figure job to violate company policy. Whether or not I think it's a good idea, and I don't. Your employer doesn't want you to have a gun, so leave it home.

 

[zelman]

Why on God's name would you risk your six figure job to violate company policy. Whether or not I think it's a good idea, and I don't. Your employer doesn't want you to have a gun, so leave it home.

Because I'd rather be fired than killed?

I don't carry at work, but if I did, it would be with the full understanding that brandishing a weapon includes quitting my job with no notice.

 

[Jrapp]

Resist the dark side temptation to derail this thread into a pro/anti gun-control argument. Let's stay on topic, there's plenty of other places to get heated about having and not having firearms. There are no statistics that are viable for either side of the argument and to be honest, even if there were reliable and non-cherry picked numbers, would it change anyone's opinion? It never has and never will. What some call irrational fear and paranoia, as above, others call being prepared. Some choose to carry a full case of water when traveling through the desert in case they get stranded, others bet on blind faith. the second amendment is not going anywhere unless 2/3 of the states vote to repeal it, until then it's your choice whether to utilize it or not. I will not call people names for not exercising it, nor will I entertain any chastising for exercising my right. If everyone would adopt that thought there would be less pointless hatred towards one another.

very well said!! the second amendment is a wonderful thing that Americans have that is a positive right and simply a reaffirmation of a natural right to defend oneself. statistics are indeed manipulated depending on who is quoting them - this especially applies to medical journals and studies nowadays I don't know why there isn't more of an uproar over that but that is a topic for another thread.

Why on God's name would you risk your six figure job to violate company policy. Whether or not I think it's a good idea, and I don't. Your employer doesn't want you to have a gun, so leave it home.

thank you for the free advice and I am fully aware of the potential consequences of my actions if I do choose to carry at work. I've been doing this for a long time now and my work as a retail pharmacist doesn't define my life anymore - my family does and coming home safely to them is very important to me. I appreciate all of the rational debate above but with all of the mass shootings and crazy behavior in this country I would feel safer with my own protection. Schoolteachers in certain areas of this country and theater operators are contemplating arming themselves (this is common in Israel). As a cop who supported and advised me said "better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6".

 

[trailerpark]

Sometimes these drug addicts will absolutely kill you even if you fully cooperate! Look at the Long Island case where the guy shot the pharmacist, the high school tech and 2 customers. Boom boom boom boom all 4 dead.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/09/0...-in-li-drugstore-killings.html?referrer=&_r=0

 

[BenJammin]

I'd rather be fired than murdered execution style. I don't care what you think about my handgun, my license, or that I may be putting you in danger. If I'm dead then sue me!

 

[fewaopi]

Yeah gun violence at pharmacies is a different issue I think than general population/public.

I believe there was an execution style robbery at a pharmacy in Kentucky if I recall? Guy lined them all up and executed them one by one in the back of the head.

Packing heat in a pharmacy I can understand, especially in certain areas and depending if you're independent or not. Robbing a Walmart, Target or Costco pharmacy I imagine would be a lot more difficult than say an independent. And pharmacies can attract all sorts of crazy, dangerous people, after all people go to a pharmacy cause they're sick, oftentimes sick in the head. Wasn't there a Duane Reade cashier that was shot at last year in Brooklyn or something? Not pharmacy but still...

Can't say I support guns in public though. Live in an area where guns are nonexistent amongst the population. And I feel safe, I think it's been rated as one of the safest communities in the country. So I'm always amused to hear gun right advocates constantly say guns make communities safer. I also remember browsing a crime statistics website on guns (think it was a .gov or some reputable site) and showed states with more guns, had more gun deaths and crimes. Makes sense to me. More guns, more gun related deaths. OP's town description sounds like it's begging for a shootout to happen. Texas had that nice shootout with the bikers and police in that restaurant yeah?? Boy I don't wanna live with neighbors like that...

Hiring security would help too. If you're a chain though I wouldn't worry so much. And hey you mentioned everyone in your hick town has a gun right? So as an NRA supporter would say, don't worry, way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Just keep your store busy and attract a couple good guy customers with guns. They'll protect you.

 

[Old Timer]

You are a baby and you should retire from retail. I assume you have had the experience of being robbed at gun point. If not, you are bigger baby than I thought. It's a risk at any job where there is money or merchandise a robber wants. There are very few robberies these days, not none, but few. Much fewer than when Oxycontin was abusable. Robberies peaked around 2011. There are very few pharmacists who are killed or injured especially compared to the number of pharmacists out there working every day. Remain calm at all times, give them what they want and get them out of there.

Unless you are trained and keep your training up you are more likely to kill a colleague or customer than kill the robber. That coupled with the fact that just every study that has ever been done show that more gun ownership=more deaths. You certainly have the right to bear arms. You don't have the right to bring a gun to work against company policy and shot me or a family member or any other innocent percent because you might wet your pants if you are robbed.

 

[Old Timer]

Sometimes these drug addicts will absolutely kill you even if you fully cooperate! Look at the Long Island case where the guy shot the pharmacist, the high school tech and 2 customers. Boom boom boom boom all 4 dead.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/09/0...-in-li-drugstore-killings.html?referrer=&_r=0

How many times does this happen compared to how many times a crazy person gets a gun and does a mass shooting? Guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

 

[trailerpark]

If you take everyone's gun away then the only people who will have them are criminals.

 

[Sparda29]

I'm against concealed carry since it doesn't do much to deter criminals. Yeah, you can fight back but they might still target you.

Now open carry I'm all for.

 

[Old Timer]

If you take everyone's gun away then the only people who will have them are criminals.

Bull ****, straw man. Nobody here said anything about taking guns away. I own a gun. I just don't think you should have one in a pharmacy.......

 

[BenJammin]

Bull ****, straw man. Nobody here said anything about taking guns away. I own a gun. I just don't think you should have one in a pharmacy.......

It's your choice but I choose to protect myself. It's a decision you should respect.

 

[Old Timer]

It's your choice but I choose to protect myself. It's a decision you should respect.

I don't respect it when your choices endanger my life and safety.....

 

[BenJammin]

I don't respect it when your choices endanger my life and safety.....

So childish. When it comes to my right to defend my own life, your feeling of safety is completely irrelevant. If you don't like it then find another profession.

 

[Unchained]

I don't respect it when your choices endanger my life and safety.....

If I said this I would immediately have to punch myself in the face for sounding like a wus.

 

[Old Timer]

So childish. When it comes to my right to defend my own life, your feeling of safety is completely irrelevant. If you don't like it then find another profession.

So, it's ok for you to endanger my life? It's not important that I return safely to my family? It's not my feeling it's fact. It's your insecurity that requires you to carry a gun and endanger me. Guns don't make anyone safer and you have no data to back that up none, not a single decent study anywhere. Feelings<>facts. Yet there are hundreds of studies that prove guns are not safe. More guns=more deaths. Less guns=less deaths. Anywhere in the world.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

 

[SClENCE]

So, it's ok for you to endanger my life? It's not important that I return safely to my family? It's not my feeling it's fact. It's your insecurity that requires you to carry a gun and endanger me. Guns don't make anyone safer and you have no data to back that up none, not a single decent study anywhere. Feelings<>facts. Yet there are hundreds of studies that prove guns are not safe. More guns=more deaths. Less guns=less deaths. Anywhere in the world.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

It's his legal right as an American citizen. It's also your legal right to find a new work place if you are not comfortable with it.

 

[Old Timer]

It's his legal right as an American citizen. It's also your legal right to find a new work place if you are not comfortable with it.

It's not his right to keep his job when he violates company policy. Regardless of his rights. Just because he is frightened baby is not my problem.

 

[Corpseman]

So, it's ok for you to endanger my life? It's not important that I return safely to my family? It's not my feeling it's fact. It's your insecurity that requires you to carry a gun and endanger me. Guns don't make anyone safer and you have no data to back that up none, not a single decent study anywhere. Feelings<>facts. Yet there are hundreds of studies that prove guns are not safe. More guns=more deaths. Less guns=less deaths. Anywhere in the world.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

You can't argue with people who are too afraid to walk across the street without full body armor and a rifle on each arm.


I mean, what do you know? They can cite 4 different times in the last 10 years that a pharmacist may or may not have been better off with a gun. So take that!

 

[SClENCE]

It's not his right to keep his job when he violates company policy. Regardless of his rights. Just because he is frightened baby is not my problem.

You make too many assumptions. The pharmacist carrying the gun could own the damn place and make whatever policy he wants. Then it kind of is your problem because you either stay or leave.

 

[Old Timer]

You make too many assumptions. The pharmacist carrying the gun could own the damn place and make whatever policy he wants. Then it kind of is your problem because you either stay or leave.

As the owner, he would have that right and I would quit. He works for someone else and it is against the policy of his company and he doesn't care. He should wear depends because when someone points a gun at him he has a greater chance of pissing his pants than hitting the robber.

 

[BenJammin]

It's not his right to keep his job when he violates company policy. Regardless of his rights. Just because he is frightened baby is not my problem.

Can you respond to me without resorting to childish remarks? You're an "old timer". Act like it.

 

[Old Timer]

Can you respond to me without resorting to childish remarks? You're an "old timer". Act like it.

Only a child would be afraid of a non existent threat like the boggeyman. Child? Really. There are so few pharmacists shot at that if you are so afraid, you are acting like a child that is afraid of the dark. And like I said unless you have had a gun pointed at you, and I have, you should shut up..

 

[BidingMyTime]

While I support guns, I also completely understand why an employer, especially a large employer, will not give blanket approval for employees to carry guns. The liability is too great, and the benefit gained, too small. In the vast majority of pharmacy robberies, no one is injured or killed, and statistically, the best thing is to give them drugs (or money, but its drugs they probably want.) I have never had a job where carrying a gun was permitted, and I have always respected my employer's request. If one feels that strongly about it, the should seek a different job, instead of putting their employer at risk. Even if I did have a job where carrying was permitted, I don't know that I would...if I felt that at risk working, my first response would be to do what I could to get a different job.

That said....

That coupled with the fact that just every study that has ever been done show that more gun ownership=more deaths. You certainly have the right to bear arms. You don't have the right to bring a gun to work against company policy and shot me or a family member or any other innocent percent because you might wet your pants if you are robbed.

I completely disagree. Every study I have seen shows the opposite. In fact the 2 places with the highest murder rates, Chicago & Washington DC have nearly ZERO legal guns, as gun ownership is banned. But as Dread090 said, neither of us will convince the other on this point.

I'm against concealed carry since it doesn't do much to deter criminals. Yeah, you can fight back but they might still target you.
Now open carry I'm all for.

I feel the opposite, but open carrying 1) you are a target--with concealed carry, the bad guys don't know who to go after first, with open carry they do 2) there are a lot of people with gun-phobia and open-carry unnecessarily causes them angst. Concealed carry is better because the gun-phobic people won't know it, and you will still have your 2nd amendment right protected.

 

[BenJammin]

Only a child would be afraid of a non existent threat like the boggeyman. Child? Really. There are so few pharmacists shot at that if you are so afraid, you are acting like a child that is afraid of the dark. And like I said unless you have had a gun pointed at you, and I have, you should shut up..

Yes I called you a child because you're acting like one. Pharmacy robberies involving deadly weapons are on the rise yet you have the audacity to tell someone who simply wants to protect their own life to shut up? You have a lot of growing up to do.

 

[pulmoblast]

If protecting yourself is the real goal here, why don't you start with wearing Kevlar everyday at work...serious...nobody messes with a guy wearing bad ass body armor

 

[pulmoblast]

 

[El Trombopag]

I know this guy. As a small independent, he was getting sick of getting robbed repeatedly. After the news of the 'pistol-packing-pharmacist' went out, he has yet to get robbed again.

http://www.myballard.com/2009/05/06/pistol-packing-pharmacist-scares-away-robbers/

 

[fewaopi]

That said....

I completely disagree. Every study I have seen shows the opposite. In fact the 2 places with the highest murder rates, Chicago & Washington DC have nearly ZERO legal guns, as gun ownership is banned. But as Dread090 said, neither of us will convince the other on this point.

I don't have much of an opinion on guns but I would definitely be considered more "gun control" leaning (meaning reasonable controls and regulations on people who own, where guns end up, and tracking, because people think like this.

I can't fathom this statement. The safest neighborhoods I know of have no gun owners or strict gun laws in affluent or middle class areas with high levels of education. Other countries have strict gun laws and zero gun related crime, smaller prisons, and less violence overall. Then again there's a prison industry here too.

Conservatives and 2nd amendment activists love to point out, well look at cities like DC, Chicago, etc. Well here's the thing, those areas have high levels of poverty. The safest areas in the country have low levels of poverty and low gun ownership. In fact, I'd say rich neighborhoods are pretty safe from gun violence. Looking at gun ownership without looking at the context of the environment in that area doesn't say anything about gun ownership and gun-related violence/deaths or overall violence.

In Chicago, if there are a lot of bad guys with a gun, that would pressure you into getting a gun. When disputes escalate, violence ensues, people and children die and you get gang wars. It's an arms race. They are not the kind of people I think that would "talk" out their problems either with high unemployment, poverty. I'd dare make the guess that high poverty, little hope, neglect, poor available education, poor parenting, no role models who are not gang members, bad influences, and drugs and guns make a pretty toxic mix. And banning gun ownership doesn't do anything but make guns more underground. Promoting guns in those cities would only make it worse but banning doesn't have an effect on them as they have criminal tendencies already. And guns are a tool that enable crimes to take place. You wouldn't rob a bank or threaten a person with a gun with a kitchen knife would you?

OTOH, promoting gun safety, respect for life and others, civility, instilling values, and giving that person a gun, would be different than giving a dropout with bad friends and no hope of achieving anything a gun. So when gun advocates harp on this issue (and I'd like to see the actual statistics/link from a reputable source) and talk about how more guns means more safety, it definitely wouldn't make my neighborhood safe, only more dangerous. Since it's one of the safest areas already, adding guns just adds more risk and tragedy to happen.

I can't say more gun owners = more death. I can say more guns = more gun related deaths though. People should visit the Phillipines and then come back about guns and political assassinations. Or visit Puerto Rico where I believe guns are legal or Honduras. Or visit Australia, Korea, Japan, Singapore where there's little to no guns and how safe they are. Speaking w/Aussies, they don't get us. They put guns in a separate location away from their homes, lock'em up, and when they want to use them, have to jump through hurdles. Aside from the Muslim hostage event in a cafe, they have very little of the violence we have. I guess culture and how people treat each other also matters. Helps if everyone is the same color/appearance.

Crap economy means more likely crap society.

 

[Old Timer]

Yes I called you a child because you're acting like one. Pharmacy robberies involving deadly weapons are on the rise yet you have the audacity to tell someone who simply wants to protect their own life to shut up? You have a lot of growing up to do.

No they are not on the rise. They peaked in 201o when they were at epidemic levels to get Oxycontin. That's when I was robbed. You have rights. But your rights don't trump mine. You have freedom of speech, but you cant wear a Hillary button, a Ted Cruz button or a swastika on your lab coat at work. You can carry a gun, just not on the private property of your employer. No right is absolute. You can't scream fire in a crowded theater. Even if I were to accept your assertion that robberies are on the increase, shootings of pharmacists should also be on the increase and they are not.

And you are the one acting like a scared child, not me. I don't need a gun at work to feel secure and I have been robbed at gun point. There are risks in every day life. There is a risk when your cross the street. It is my opinion that it is safer in a pharmacy to be unarmed than to have an untrained person carry a hand gun. The risks of that outweigh the risk of being robbed.

 

[Old Timer]

W


I completely disagree. Every study I have seen shows the opposite. In fact the 2 places with the highest murder rates, Chicago & Washington DC have nearly ZERO legal guns, as gun ownership is banned. But as Dread090 said, neither of us will convince the other on this point.

Show me a study. It doesn't exist. Almost all well designed (account for all factors) studies show a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of deaths.

 

[zelman]

I don't think anyone believes that more guns = fewer deaths. Some just hope that the increased number of dead criminals is what raises that statistic.

Also, there is sentiment against "untrained" pharmacists carrying guns. Maybe instead of encouraging them to stop carrying, you might have more success encouraging them to become trained.

 

[Sparda29]

Pretty sure that if a criminal saw a two guys walking down the street, one looking unarmed and the other one with an AK-47 slung around his shoulder and a desert eagle on his hip, he'd go for the unarmed guy.

 

[fewaopi]

Pretty sure that if a criminal saw a two guys walking down the street, one looking unarmed and the other one with an AK-47 slung around his shoulder and a desert eagle on his hip, he'd go for the unarmed guy.

If I was an armed criminal, I'd go after the guy with the AK-47 and Desert Eagle actually to eliminate the potential threat, than go after the unarmed one. If I went after the unarmed first, then the armed guy could have time to retaliate and shoot back. Better to ambush the armed one first and eliminate the threat before the two have a chance to respond back. Or I'd separate them and go after the unarmed one.

Unless you mean if a criminal had to choose between who to rob with neither interfering, then yeah, go after the unarmed one

 

[SClENCE]

If I was an armed criminal, I'd go after the guy with the AK-47 and Desert Eagle actually to eliminate the potential threat, than go after the unarmed one. If I went after the unarmed first, then the armed guy could have time to retaliate and shoot back. Better to ambush the armed one first and eliminate the threat before the two have a chance to respond back. Or I'd separate them and go after the unarmed one.

Unless you mean if a criminal had to choose between who to rob with neither interfering, then yeah, go after the unarmed one

If you were a robber and had a weapon pointed at you you would be getting the hell out of there - maybe returning fire as you run away, not trying to separate people and systematically eliminate them while the cops are 2 minutes out.

 

[Digsbe]

I used to rotate at a place where there was a gun in the pharmacy and the pharmacists concealed carried. I've witness a robbery where a gun stopped things. It was at a sonic drive in where 2 gangsters came up and started shooting in the building wanting money, the manager shot one in the torso and they both ran away. Luckily the gangsters hit no one (idk if their intent was to do that or scare them into getting money) but the robbery ended and the only one hurt was one of the gang members.

Personally I'd prefer to cave into their demands, give them the drugs, and have them walk away. But if someone robs me at gunpoint or plans to murder me execution style (like what had happened in the past) I'd want to at least be able to defend myself over being killed defenseless.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Show me a study. It doesn't exist. Almost all well designed (account for all factors) studies show a direct correlation between the number of guns and the number of deaths.

I may not have been clear in my post, but I was not referring to deaths but to *murder* rates. The areas with the highest number of guns have LESS murders than areas that do not allow guns. The logic is simple, when people can legally own guns and defend themselves, would-be-murderers are less likely to get away with their crimes.

Or visit Australia, Korea, Japan, Singapore where there's little to no guns and how safe they are. Speaking w/Aussies, they don't get us.

Funny you didn't mention Switzerland or Israel which have very high legal gun ownership rates, yet very low murder rates.

Funny you didn't mention Mexico or Zimbabwe in your list of countries that ban guns, but have high murder rates.

And, you didn't specify which Korea, but yes, both North & South Korean essentially ban guns, and have low crime rates. Of course, one of them has terrible government repression which doesn't always occur when a country has banned guns, but it pretty much only occurs in countries that have banned guns.

Well here's the thing, those areas have high levels of poverty.

I have, and high levels of poverty are not the common denominator. Compare Houston & Chicago, which have very similar levels of poverty & population make-up, yet Chicago has a much higher murder rate. The difference is people in Houston can carry guns to legally protect themselves.

 

[Old Timer]

I may not have been clear in my post, but I was not referring to deaths but to *murder* rates. The areas with the highest number of guns have LESS murders than areas that do not allow guns. The logic is simple, when people can legally own guns and defend themselves, would-be-murderers are less likely to get away with their crimes.



Funny you didn't mention Switzerland or Israel which have very high legal gun ownership rates, yet very low murder rates.

Funny you didn't mention Mexico or Zimbabwe in your list of countries that ban guns, but have high murder rates.

And, you didn't specify which Korea, but yes, both North & South Korean essentially ban guns, and have low crime rates. Of course, one of them has terrible government repression which doesn't always occur when a country has banned guns, but it pretty much only occurs in countries that have banned guns.



I have, and high levels of poverty are not the common denominator. Compare Houston & Chicago, which have very similar levels of poverty & population make-up, yet Chicago has a much higher murder rate. The difference is people in Houston can carry guns to legally protect themselves.

We will just agree to disagree. Just about every social science study that has been published has established that more guns=more deaths. Women with a gun in their home have a higher homicide rate. Suicides increase. Even if it were true that guns used in self defense were valuable and I don't, the gain would be offset by the number of suicides, accidental shootings and spousal murders. For every life you save in crime prevention your probably loose 20 others.

That being said, if you want a gun in your home for protection, I have no problem. If it makes you feel safer, go for it, But when your boss says leave it home and I as your colleague have the expectation of a safe work environment, leave it home.