Concern grows in state over doctors from some foreign schools

Started by azskeptic
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

azskeptic

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/9855392.htm

Posted on Thu, Oct. 07, 2004

Concern grows in state over doctors from some foreign schools

By Valarie Honeycutt Spears
HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER

The medical careers of Dr. Bryant D. Draper and Dr. Peter Jannace
began at the same small medical school in the Caribbean, and they
ended in roughly the same place: prison.

Draper, who practiced in Madisonville, was sentenced in July 2000 to
63 months in prison for illegally distributing pain pills.

And Jannace, who practiced in Louisville, was sentenced in May 2003 to
eight months in prison after being found guilty of treating patients
for weight loss while billing their insurance programs for
osteoarthritis and other chronic ailments.

Both men have since lost their Kentucky medical licenses. If Kentucky
had followed the lead of several other states, neither man would have
received a license to begin with.

States such as California and Texas refuse to grant medical licenses
to the graduates of certain foreign medical schools, including
Universidad Technologica de Santiago or UTESA, the school in the
Dominican Republic that produced Draper and Jannace.

Now, concern about such schools is growing among Kentucky medical
officials in a state that depends on foreign-educated doctors to serve
in remote rural areas where few others want to go.

The number of such physicians in Kentucky is increasing -- 30 percent
of the licenses granted last year went to foreign-educated doctors --
but the state currently does nothing to examine the quality of their
educations. Foreign medical schools often aren't subject to the same
accreditation standards as U.S. schools.

Over the last 17 years, Kentucky has granted at least 24 licenses to
physicians who received degrees from foreign medical schools that
would have disqualified them in other states.

Four of the Kentucky licenses went to graduates of St. Lucia's Spartan
Health Services University, which one review said "taught in a
piecemeal approach."

"It is impossible for all the basic science classes to be covered in
such a small time frame," said a report by the American Association of
International Medical Graduates. The group fights discrimination
against graduates of foreign medical schools, but also tries to police
the field.

Two other Kentucky licenses went to graduates of Antigua's University
of Health Sciences, a school whose graduates are banned in several
states and where the international association's review found
"insufficient laboratories and a small library with a few old books
and journals."

California's evaluations

It's neither easy nor inexpensive to inspect a foreign medical school
-- and that's one reason why Kentucky doesn't do it already, said Dr.
Danny Clark, a Somerset physician and the chairman of the Kentucky
Board of Medical Licensure.

Still, many states have simply adopted the list of "banned" schools
that California medical regulators have been assembling since 1983.
California regulators inspect schools on the basis of complaints.
Graduates of the listed schools cannot be licensed in California or
enter residencies in California, said Pat Park, the foreign schools
liaison for California's medical board.

Kentucky's medical licensure board expects to adopt new national
standards for foreign schools that are being developed by the
Dallas-based Federation of State Medical Boards.

But once new standards are in place, they will apply only to new
license applications, not to any existing licenses, said Dr. C.
William Schmidt, the Kentucky board's executive director.

"I don't think we can be retroactive," Schmidt said.

One fear associated with bringing tighter scrutiny to foreign medical
schools is that all of them might be tainted by the exercise. And
Kentucky officials quickly point out that many foreign schools produce
good doctors.

State licensing records show that about 21 percent of the 12,929
physicians licensed in Kentucky were trained at foreign schools.

But over the past 10 years or so, only 60 of the 642 doctors
disciplined by medical regulators -- less than 10 percent -- were
trained at foreign schools.

Certification required

State officials point out that foreign-trained doctors seeking
Kentucky licenses must first get certification from the Educational
Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates. To get certification,
applicants must show proficiency in English, undergo a clinical skills
test and pass the same national licensing test required of U.S.
medical school graduates.

And, Clark said, before the Kentucky board will consider granting a
license, it ensures that each applicant has received solid
post-graduate training in the United States.

Clark said the foreign-trained physicians he's familiar with are
"superbly trained and excellent physicians" who are sorely needed,
particularly in rural areas.

"Without graduates of foreign medical schools, many Kentucky
communities would be without adequate medical care," Clark said.

Kentucky's medical regulators began discussing physician education
in-depth late last year, after Dr. Emery Wilson, the former dean of
the University of Kentucky Medical School and a leader in the study of
foreign medical education, brought the issue to the board.

Now, Clark and others expect to consider recommendations from national
groups on how to rate international medical schools.

Dr. Laxmaiah Manchikanti, a member of the licensure board who
graduated from a medical school in India that is in good standing in
the United States, said he would welcome new scrutiny.

"Medical schools are popping up in every country," said Manchikanti, a
Paducah pain specialist.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/9855393.htm

Posted on Thu, Oct. 07, 2004

Two in Kentucky fear being stigmatized

An urgent care physician in Lexington and an obstetrician in Bardstown
both fear their clean records and reputations will be damaged as the
Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure brings new scrutiny to foreign
medical schools.

Gary Cannon, an urgent care physician at Lexington Clinic who
graduated from the Santo Domingo school UTESA in 1985, said he had no
idea it had been banned by California and several other states as a
result of inspections in 1985 and 1997.

A 1997 inspection of UTESA by California officials cited antiquated
laboratories and overall disorder, with deficiencies "broad in scope
and deep in extent."

But UTESA officials have criticized that assessment, saying that
hundreds of the school's graduates had passed U.S. licensing
requirements.

Cannon has additional credentials in that he is certified by both the
American Board of Family Practice and the American Board of Urgent
Care Medicine.

Frederick Michel, medical director at the Lexington Clinic, said that
in hiring Cannon, the clinic went beyond state licensing requirements
-- as it does with all physicians.

The clinic requires board certification -- an extra measure of
professional accomplishment -- as well as extensive backgrounding,
Michel said.

Said Cannon: "I had what I considered a very quality medical education."

Cannon said he is in favor of closer scrutiny of both U.S. and foreign
medical schools.

Franklin O. De La Cruz, the Bardstown obstetrician, meanwhile, said he
knew that Universidad Centro de Estudios Technologicos or CETEC
University in Santo Domingo, where he graduated in 1982, had been
banned in California since 1983 and closed after school officials were
accused of selling diplomas.

Both physicians said they received strong post-graduate training in
the United States. But they fear that won't mean much if people begin
to associate foreign medical schools with poor care.

"It's a political thing," said De La Cruz. "A lot of people are
getting hurt who are legitimate," he said.
 
azskeptic said:
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/9855392.htm
Still, many states have simply adopted the list of "banned" schools
that California medical regulators have been assembling since 1983.
California regulators inspect schools on the basis of complaints.
Graduates of the listed schools cannot be licensed in California or
enter residencies in California, said Pat Park, the foreign schools
liaison for California's medical board.

Good reason to stick with the "Big Three" in the Carribean, which are approved by the California medical board. The rest of the article is irrelevant as long as you stick with the tried and true schools.
 
skypilot said:
Good reason to stick with the "Big Three" in the Carribean, which are approved by the California medical board. The rest of the article is irrelevant as long as you stick with the tried and true schools.

I keep hearing from folks who have been around that they have the following process:

1. try to get into US med schools.
2. If that isn't possible get into DO schools.
3. If that isn't possible get into SGU,AUC,Ross, Saba, St. Matthew
4. If you can't do that the next steps down are major ones and one
should question their ability to pull this off.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
It is amazing, what I heard from the caribean medical school at least you don't see as much insanity as you see in a american medical school :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: american school do not give people a chance to get their medical education, and if they do they charge a huge amount of money, at least doctors that graduate from the caribean learn that a doctor shouldn't use cocaine unlike american medical school that all they do after they graduate is use alcohol and drugs with all the money they owe and would take 30 to 40 years to pay
 
well it is the california lost if they dont take foreing from DR they have many more good school
:laugh:
 
miriam600 said:
It is amazing, what I heard from the caribean medical school at least you don't see as much insanity as you see in a american medical school :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: american school do not give people a chance to get their medical education, and if they do they charge a huge amount of money, at least doctors that graduate from the caribean learn that a doctor shouldn't use cocaine unlike american medical school that all they do after they graduate is use alcohol and drugs with all the money they owe and would take 30 to 40 years to pay
Man I love it when idiots post! Makes life more interesting.
 
!dr_nick! said:
Man I love it when idiots post! Makes life more interesting.
it must be because you are one of those that do a lot of drugs as well, oh and by a 👎 👎 nychance ,I can prescribe as well, and your mother its the idiot
 
!dr_nick! said:
Man I love it when idiots post! Makes life more interesting.
👎 :meanie: :meanie: 👎 👎 what you got hurt, that happens when you call idiot to people thatt in fact have way more education than you
 
miriam600 said:
👎 :meanie: :meanie: 👎 👎 what you got hurt, that happens when you call idiot to people thatt in fact have way more education than you
I know many educated idiots.
 
miriam600 said:
It is amazing, what I heard from the caribean medical school at least you don't see as much insanity as you see in a american medical school :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: :meanie: american school do not give people a chance to get their medical education, and if they do they charge a huge amount of money, at least doctors that graduate from the caribean learn that a doctor shouldn't use cocaine unlike american medical school that all they do after they graduate is use alcohol and drugs with all the money they owe and would take 30 to 40 years to pay

You should have spent a little more of that education of yours in grammar classes.

In the meantime, why denigrate one system over the other? U.S. allo, U.S. osteo, U.S. IMG (Caribbean or elsewhere), or true IMG... Who cares? If you're eligible to sit for and then after are able to pass your licensure exams as well as complete a residency, you've earned the right to be called doctor in the U.S. regardless of where you went to undergrad med.

So, why the hostility, miriam? Are you jealous? I'm a Carib student and I can promise you I'm not. But, such stupidity as you've displayed here, regardless from which direction it comes, is pointless, counterproductive, and just outright silly.

-Skip
 
"foreign medical graduates futures will be unlcear once US trained physicians reach surplus by year 2008 according to most estimates. this means limiting or eliminating FMG's accepted for residencies here in the US" - SDN board member ...

I found this qoute from an another area in the SDN forum .. quite frankly this scares me considering that I want to go in the fall of 2005. You guys think this is really true ?
 
PKP719 said:
"foreign medical graduates futures will be unlcear once US trained physicians reach surplus by year 2008 according to most estimates. this means limiting or eliminating FMG's accepted for residencies here in the US" - SDN board member ...

I found this qoute from an another area in the SDN forum .. quite frankly this scares me considering that I want to go in the fall of 2005. You guys think this is really true ?


Yeah, there are a lot of so-called, self-proclaimed "experts" on this forum. Suffice it to say that I'm an IMG (or soon to be one) and I'm getting interviews at competitive programs in a competitive field with relatively average board scores.

Don't worry about what some other person on this forum says. All that ultimately matters is what COGME says. They are working on increasing the number of spots at U.S. schools to prevent what they are now predicting to be a 150,000 (yes, that number is correct - do a search) shortage of physicians by the year 2020.

Long story short, you have nothing to worry about. There will always be a need for doctors. You just have to be willing to be mobile.

-Skip
 
miriam600 said:
👎 :meanie: :meanie: 👎 👎 what you got hurt, that happens when you call idiot to people thatt in fact have way more education than you

Each of your posts gets progressively worse. I look forward to your future posts.

capt
 
Skip Intro said:
Yeah, there are a lot of so-called, self-proclaimed "experts" on this forum. Suffice it to say that I'm an IMG (or soon to be one) and I'm getting interviews at competitive programs in a competitive field with relatively average board scores.

-Skip

You guys are bumming me out. I've only gotten three invites so far.



-Skip
__________________

Come on, Skip, you're flip-flopping on us. You know that if the only thing different on your transcipt were attendance at a US MD or DO school, you would be getting a good deal more interviews.

When I interviewed at Cleveland Clinic anes. this week, the Program Coordinator forecast a bleak future for IMGs at their program in years to come.

I'm not saying it's fair, but that seems to be how things go - in any field where competitiveness starts increasing, IMGs will bear the worst brunt of the squeeze.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
then it is all the more reasons for attending a medical school which you can do clinicals, residency and become licensed in the country you become educated in.

Although I seriously doubt that there will ever be a complete ban on IMG's,
now is the time for every potential medical student to think of where current trends are heading.

-Dr.2B
 
InductionAgent said:
Come on, Skip, you're flip-flopping on us. You know that if the only thing different on your transcipt were attendance at a US MD or DO school, you would be getting a good deal more interviews.

When I interviewed at Cleveland Clinic anes. this week, the Program Coordinator forecast a bleak future for IMGs at their program in years to come.

I'm not saying it's fair, but that seems to be how things go - in any field where competitiveness starts increasing, IMGs will bear the worst brunt of the squeeze.

I ended-up getting 15 invitations (12 university programs, 3 community programs), went on 13 interviews, ranked 11 programs, and matched at my #2 choice.

-Skip
 
How many programs did you apply to?


Skip Intro said:
I ended-up getting 15 invitations (12 university programs, 3 community programs), went on 13 interviews, ranked 11 programs, and matched at my #2 choice.

-Skip