Concerns/Questions re MSUCOM

[Aberfly]

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Hello everybody (this is my first post)
In looking at DO schools, I tried to go out and gather as much info as I could to make the best possible choice. For Michigan State, I spoke to admissions office representatives both live and over the phone. I talked to four professors, some current and one former and one who just does research. My questions come from things they told me, and I would really appreciate comments from fellow students/applicants on these things.

-My main concern about MSU is that one of the admissions persons was often contradicting herself and occasionally flat-out rude to me. However another admissions officer was very kind and helpful. Anybody have experiences like this at MSU?

-It sounds like there is some fantastic research going on at MSU and it was both interesting and unique. Professors informed me, though, that ALL labs were being moved out of Fee Hall, where MSUCOM is located, and most research is no longer linked with the school, moving from being under med control to the psychology department, for example. In the Admin office, I was told that "research is too academic of an approach to medicine" and not really supported! I asked if research involving working with cells, biomedical equipment, animal surgeries, thing of that sort was too academic, and was told "yes".

-The admissions policy puzzles me. MSU says they are primarily looking for doctors who can interact with patients, yet according to US NWR, MSU interviewed only (roughly, can't remember exact numbers) 196 people and accepted all but three of them. To me this says that the interview isn't really part of the accepting process and that communication skills and things of that sort are not important enough to be verified. Why not interview more people to get the best class possible?

-Another admissions conflict: I took one class at a community college over a summer, and was told that wouldn't be taken into account when my application was reviewed. However MSUCOM does nothing to weigh classes or schools in the other direction, thus both these policies hurt me. Further, I was told that "a 3.6 at an Ivy League school is equivalent to a 3.6 at an 'Eastern State'".

-An old professor at the med school, who is still working at MSU but not in medicine, told me MSUCOM has the highest attrition rate of any DO school and that the school will never consider adding a teaching hospital. In addition, she told me Fee Hall was originally a dorm, converted to classrooms because it was deemed unfit to house occupants over a 24 hour period. She says it has not been renovated in dozens of years. Fee Hall holds not one but two medical schools, so I asked about the money saved by having multiple programs in one building, and was told that "the money doesn't go to the students or to the building. I don't know where it goes." I have seen massive technology updates at places like KCOM and new buildings at places like LECOM. Is there any new technology going into MSUCOM?

Well, those are my main concerns. I don't mean for them to be overly negative or insulting. I am just looking for comments on these things. Thanks in advance.

 

[xraydoc]

Hello, I am a radiologist on staff at MSU and I graduated from MSUCOM.

I am sorry that the admissions person was rude to you. Maybe a bad day. In my dealings with the people there, the vast majority are very professional.

You will have to take my opinions as they are because I have never been affiliated with another DO school. That being said, I think that the major advantage of MSUCOM is that is associated with a well known large research institution and that alone gives it a very good reputation. As far as research goes, there is plenty to occupy you, you just need to seek it out. We do a lot of research in radiology and have med students around frequently. True much of the actual research is centered elsewhere on campus, but it is easily accessable to anybody who wants the experience. I did physiology research and presented a poster while I was a first and second year student.

Fee hall is a converted dorm yes but it is pretty nice and has plenty of room for all your needs. It was converted because there weren't enough students to fill it at the time, not because there was anything wrong with it. There will probably be a brand new medical school bldg going up next to my building (radiology) soon as well to house both medical schools. MSUCOM has Fee hall all to themselves without CHM students. CHM has most of its classes across the street, some of the basic science classes are combined. There may be occasional CHM classes there but it certaintly isn't cluttered or old looking, or crowded. I found it a pleasant place to go to school. It is on the edge of campus and within walking distance of restaurants and the book store, as well as the MSU gardens. It has an open design and is next to the other dorms on that part of campus. I think these are just some of the advantages over the other DO schools.

I can't speak to admissions stuff because I am not on the committee. When I was a student there there was more than enough help and student support. Another nice thing about MSUCOM is that being a big university you are taught by many basic science and clinical faculty who are known in their field and whose job is to partly teach and do research.

I did my fellowship at UW in Madison and the MSUCOM school is much nicer that that old building that they have not to mention the campus.

MSUCOM and MSUCHM both have a teaching hospital about 5 minutes away Sparrow Hospital and Ingham regional medical center. That is where many of the residents/interns and students do their rotations and it looks much the same as the better known teaching hospitals that I have seen. Sparrow is a level one trauma center and has resident support in all the specialities. It is a top 100 Hospital in the USA according to some recent surveys. Sooo it would really be counter productive to build a hospital next to the med school since there already is one five minutes away!

MSUCOM is now financially solvent as well unlike many other DO schools. There is a new dean who everybody thinks is really a good manager. MSUCOM has wonderful support among the faculty and administration as well as the community. Family practice is currently ranked I think in the top 25 schools in the country MD included.

Hope this helps and good luck in your search! Glad you choose the Osteopathic medical route. I believe that it is the best, especially here at MSUCOM.

 

[swdave]

Whew!

What a post Aberfly. I'll do my best to comment on the things I know.

Admissions: I know 3 of them pretty well and they all are VERY nice and helpful. They were always straightforward with me and never played any "cloak and dagger" games with details that weren't top secret. There is one individual I don't know very well but the others were as good or better than any of the other schools I'd applied to.

Research: Bottom line is that you can do as much as you want. MANY research opportunites are available to both the MD and DO students. I know several student doing either academic or clinical research. You have to understand that MSUCOM is integrated into MSU. The physiology dept. teaches phys, the genetics dept teaches genetics, etc.. The school doesn't keep a staff of geneticists since the university already has that resource. You see more MSUCOM employed specialists and PhDs during your systems courses.

Admissions: THE MOST comprehensive secondary I did was for MSUCOM. Some schools it was a single form. But the secondary was like 14 pages in triplicate. The admissions approach is to be VERY thorough BEFORE interviewing. The interview is more of a confirmation of what they already know about you. This is why I got accepted here. The school takes the time to really find out about you before granting interviews. For me it worked great. If you have great numbers but have nothing to back it up with then you'll struggle with the admissions process here. The school fills a class of 125 people each year. I was #4 on the original alternate list ranking and I didn't get a call until the end of July.

Attrition?: Not seen anything like you've described. I don't know where that came from.

Fee Hall: Well, parts of the building are a little dated but the school does keep things updated. This year we added a refurbished lecture hall with data ports at every chair, dual projection screens, 2 extra screens for overheads/slides. We also got a brand new OMM training room with multiple cameras to zoom in on the instructor, brand new OMT tables and dual projection screens. The building is old but kept clean. Everything happens in phases. I also anticipate a completely new facility in a few years which would be nice but hey other docs have learned there just fine. You DO have access to many other buildings on campus to study so you don't have to feel limited in that way.

Weighting of grades: This will happen on an individual basis by people on the admissions committee. If someone decides to weight grades differently from other institutions then that is their perogative. There may be some institionalized weighting at some med school somewhere but I've only seen it in the perceptions that committee members may have about a particular school. I would hope that an admissions committee wouldn't weight the gpa's according to something like US News's tiered system!!

Ok, that's it for now. I really have to study for my second Pharm exam.

Good luck Aberfly, go to the school you feel best about and that you feel you fit with. My top 2 choices were 1. AZCOM since it was where ALL my family lives and 2. MSUCOM because I felt the best there and felt it provided the best overall opportunities for training.

 

[BrianU]

swdave, check your profile. I have a few questions for you.

Thanks

 

[wsu]

A-,

About attrition rates, I don't know exactly what your percentage is. However, at MSU-COM it is very low. KCOM, COMP and some other schools actually have been known to have high attrition rates. When I inteviewed there and at other D.O. schools, I can tell you from my own experience that MSU for a in state resident tuition is very affordable compared to other D.O> schools. The resources there are excellent! By far, I'll be starting this year and have no doubt in my mind that MSU-COM is right for me. Good luck. May be you should visit other D.O. schools in comparision. Des Moines, UHS, LECOM, WVOM I know don't nearly have the vast resources that MSU has.

 

[The Sgt]

Hey all,

I work at fee hall at msu, so maybe I can help ya'll out a bit. I believe you are both right. Fee hall was once a dorm but was converted to labs and such ‘cause of a lack of students. However Aberfly is also right, since it is no longer up to code (asbestos in the walls and that kinda thing). But it is currently being renovated (changed from labs to offices, yes they are all moving out and brought up to standards). They started on the sixth floor several months ago and are starting on the 5 floor in Aug. I think. Aberfly's question about money is a good one. I'm glad it is being renovated ‘cause it really needs it, especially the basement where there are study rooms and an activity room and bookstore. The ceiling leaks and trim is missing from the floor. Some of it is in pretty bad shape but will all be taken care of soon.

 

[Aberfly]

Thank you very much for your replies.

I have two further questions, if anybody is willing to answer them for me.

1) From what I understand, Sparrow is an excellent hospital, but it is a community hospital, as opposed to a teaching hospital (I believe KCOM has a teaching hospital, as an example to DOs, and the University of Michigan has one also, as an example to MI residents). For students at MSUCOM, prospective or current, I was wondering how everybody feels about that. What are the advantages and disadvantages? Is it nice to have a hospital so close by that is independent of MSU? Or do you feel that detracts from your learning experience, since the hospital exists as a public entity, outside of university control?

2) I heard that MSUCOM teaches anatomy through prosectioning instead of dissection. Has that been beneficial to students or not?

Thanks very much

 

[OsteoMed02]

Hi there. I hope that I can provide some answers to your questions! I will be a first year student at MSUCOM in the fall.

1) Sparrow Hospital (a nationally recognized trauma center) is not a hospital that MSU D.O. students go to for their 3rd/4th years (clinical rotations). There are 12 different hospitals that you can choose from for your last two years of school. Ingham is the name of the base hospital in Lansing if you would like to remain in that area. During your 3rd year you have "out time" from your base hospital and are able to go ANYWHERE you want to...even out of state. So, you are really very lucky to have a large range of opportunities from Traverse City to Detroit insofar as base hospitals are concerned.

2) As far as prosection goes, I have talked to many students and they said that there were no disadvantages to prosected cadavers. They said that they were able to see everything extremely well and that it actually made the lab feel more productive. Students have an opportunity to take an elective course in cadaver dissection in the summer if they so choose. I believe students who are pursuing surgical specialties opt for this because of the necessity for a good background in anatomy. One course may not be enough!

I hope that this helped you out. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to email me.

Good luck!

Julia