Conflicting Answers

[MCG]

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As I have been going through BSS and Qbank, there have been questions that have come up that state different answers than those in First Aid, BRS, Kaplan, whatever. These really piss me off because i could be learning the wrong information. For example, erythropoiten secreted from JG cells or mesangial cells? NT that induces sleep is Ach or Serotonin? Wobble position located on 3rd position of tRNA or mRNA? Hb Barts and Hb H, which one is gamma4 which one is beta4 loss (compare BRS path pg 182 and First Aid pg 249). I know this could really be being picky, but these are the freakin questions i'm getting. Anyone know the real answers, i thought i used to.

 

[jed2023]

I have noticed exactly the same phenomenon and it is EXTREMELY frustrating at times. When I bring this up to friends, most of them just shrug it off and say "no big deal." But that's not the way I operate. If there is an "answer" (and sometimes there isn't one, especially on theoretical issues) I prefer to know it and not learn/understand/memorize some BS.

My theory on this is that disagreements between sources usually happen for 1 of 2 reasons.

1. Straight out error (either a factual error or outdated theory)

This happens more than you might think, unfortunately; there are sprinkled errors throughout many of the major review books (First Aid in 2002 had 30+ errors on their error correction sheet, if I remember correctly); the only exceptions seem to be those that have undergone many revisions over the years or had tons of reviewers, but even these books aren't exempt

2. Disagreement in the literature

This occurs fairly often as well, but a prof told me that most material of this nature isn't likely to be material tested on step 1. Most of the stuff tested is considered core material and well established.

When I do find a major difference in review sources, I usually go to a big gun, an authoritative reference source, and then call it a day. For path, big robbins or majno; for phys, berne & levy or guyton; for pharm, katzung, etc.

Probably not any consolation.

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

Originally posted by MCG
As I have been going through BSS and Qbank, there have been questions that have come up that state different answers than those in First Aid, BRS, Kaplan, whatever. These really piss me off because i could be learning the wrong information. For example, erythropoiten secreted from JG cells or mesangial cells? NT that induces sleep is Ach or Serotonin? Wobble position located on 3rd position of tRNA or mRNA? Hb Barts and Hb H, which one is gamma4 which one is beta4 loss (compare BRS path pg 182 and First Aid pg 249). I know this could really be being picky, but these are the freakin questions i'm getting. Anyone know the real answers, i thought i used to.

the BRS path barts is wrong. it's gamma4. i saw this the other day too. there are some other errors in BRS as well.
wobble position is on tRNA. also has different amino acids like inosine.
EPO should be produced by JG cells.
sleep? i don't know.

use google when in doubt


use google when in doubt.

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

oh. i forgot to include my own frustration. i get pissed off when i see mistakes. i mean, here you are busting your balls and paying money for texts.....and they can't get this stuff right? lame.

 

[MCG]

it should piss you off, these could be points on the real thing. Hey Jed, is there a place where i can download the errors in first aid for the 2003 edition? I agree on going to the big sources for the correct answer, but to do that for the over 20 examples of these i have found would waste alot of time. thanks for the answers nuclearrabbit

 

[jed2023]

Originally posted by MCG
it should piss you off, these could be points on the real thing. Hey Jed, is there a place where i can download the errors in first aid for the 2003 edition? I agree on going to the big sources for the correct answer, but to do that for the over 20 examples of these i have found would waste alot of time. thanks for the answers nuclearrabbit

I would contact the publisher directly by phone call or email. Yeah, I know that's a pain in the butt. When I bought my 2002 First Aid, it was in a Borders book store in Nevada and it was about a year after it was published, I think. There was a one page white sheet w/ corrected errors and page # references. Most of the errors were pretty dumb things like arrow going up should be going down or mislabelings but some were not. I figure that the publishers fixed these for the 2003 but I'm not sure if enough time has elapsed for them to have come up with an errata sheet. Only one way to find out.

Ask away if you have any more questions. Oh, and by the way, nuclearrabbit is right, the fastest way to look up information is often a google search. Just the other day I was doing a question on Fragile X syndrome and they were describing how these kids facial features looked: long faces, ears stick out, and palate raised. I looked through 5 or 6 of my reference sources (taking 15 minutes or so) and couldn't find a single photo. I then did a google search and found it, literally, in less than a second!

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

yeah. i use google's image search engine quite often too. between emedicine, google, webpath, and sdn...you should be able to find most of what you need.

 

[MCG]

I also found a couple errors on that Goljan 36 page rapid review, I know many of you guys worship the man, so I guess everything, no matter how good it is, has a few errors. If you guys find any more errors in First Aid or BRS Path, please post them, these are prob the two most important books.

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

i posted one on another thread about whether struvite stones were radiolucent or radioopaque. i guess theoretically they are radiolucent (which BRS says) but in practice they can be radioopaque (due to small accumulation of calcium). pg. 294 brs

 

[dredd]

I don't think that you will be tested on this, but mesangial cells that are part of the extraglomerular portion of the JG apparatus secrete erythropoieten. Juxtaglomerular cells in the JG apparatus secrete rening. My rule of thumb while studying was always that if books offer differering opinions, it's not important enough or well known enough that I would have to worry about it for step I purposes.

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

pg. 348 harrisons'

"EPO is produced and released by peritubular capillary lining cells within the kidney. ....A small amount of EPO is produced by hepatocytes."

sorry about my mistake about saying JG.

 

[Idiopathic]

I had the same concerns...one book reports EPO secretion from "JG cells" and most others say that it comes from either the tubular system or the "JG apparatus"...the two are not, of course, the same thing.

btw, I would be curious to see what 'mistakes' were found in Goljan's review.

 

[MCG]

i think i found something like 5 in that 36 page review, at least i think they are wrong, but its been a week or two since i read it. here are 2 i remember, and the rest i'll post next time i read it, since it doesnt take very long to read.
in anatomy #21, 36

i think the midshaft humerus break should be the radial n., not median nerve (i know the median gets a root from each of c5-t1, but i'm think the exam will want radial)

also on erbs palsy it should be aDDuct, since the arm is hanging by the side.

also, this one i am unsure about. if the technical word fertilization means when the sperm enters the egg, then shouldnt metaphase II be completed in the tube and not the uterus (#15 anatomy). if it means implants in the posterior wall of uterus then its correct. then again i could just be an idiot, and if i am wrong please call me one.

i think there were a couple of the errors in the micro section too. also, on the EPO question, i say screw it, if i get that question on the exam with both answer choices, i'll pick up the cpu and drop it on my head. i was asked this once on a path test with both choices, and i missed it.

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

Originally posted by MCG
i think i found something like 5 in that 36 page review, at least i think they are wrong, but its been a week or two since i read it. here are 2 i remember, and the rest i'll post next time i read it, since it doesnt take very long to read.
in anatomy #21, 36

i think the midshaft humerus break should be the radial n., not median nerve (i know the median gets a root from each of c5-t1, but i'm think the exam will want radial)

also on erbs palsy it should be aDDuct, since the arm is hanging by the side.

also, this one i am unsure about. if the technical word fertilization means when the sperm enters the egg, then shouldnt metaphase II be completed in the tube and not the uterus (#15 anatomy). if it means implants in the posterior wall of uterus then its correct. then again i could just be an idiot, and if i am wrong please call me one.

i think there were a couple of the errors in the micro section too. also, on the EPO question, i say screw it, if i get that question on the exam with both answer choices, i'll pick up the cpu and drop it on my head. i was asked this once on a path test with both choices, and i missed it.

i haven't seen any of the texts you mention but here goes:
well midshaft break should be median. it runs along it...a break at the radial groove could jeopardize the radial. if i had to pick between the two i'd say median.
meiosis II is finished after fertilization near the ampulla of the fallopian tube, with concommitant ejection of the 2nd polar body.
so you are right on this one. by the time it reaches the uterus it will have already complete several cell division and be past the morula stage. (implants as blastocyst). so you are right.
erb's palsy should be adducted, and medially rotated. this is due to paralysis to upper portion of the brachial plexus so abducting muscles such as the deltoid are affected. again, you are right.
so i agree with everything you said except for the median vs. radial nerve.

 

[MCG]

the radial n. question i thinik is kind of misleading, but everytime i see it in a question of a humerus fracture, the answer has always been radial n with wrist drop. (see page 116 first aid).

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

ok. i'm wrong again. i looked it up in high-yield and also clinical anatomy. they both say midshaft break would jeopardize the radial nerve and that a supracondylar break would jeopardize the median.

 

[MCG]

even though there are few mistakes, i like the rapid review that Goljan put out. i asked this before but didnt really get a response; is there a longer than 36 page review that i can buy, or is this a myth.

 

[Idiopathic]

if you can memorize that text, and be able to associate 2nd and 3rd order with it, there is nothing you could not answer on the test, unless it was behavioral or psych...