Confused about "MSTP" designation versus other MD/PhD programs

[hopefuldoc97239]

So this doesn't really affect me in any way, but I'm curious because some people make a big deal about it...

1. What's the difference between an official "MSTP" and any other MD/PhD program?

2. How do you know if a program is an official "MSTP" or just another MD/PhD program?

3. Why does OHSU not show up on this list of MSTP programs funded by NIGMS, even though NIH's RePORT website shows that OHSU has this MSTP grant that is from NIGMS?

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[nothingman]

My (perhaps incorrect) understanding:

MD/PhD programs can get MSTP funds from the NIH for some or all of their slots. Generally speaking if they fund at least some of their students this way, they are called MSTP. However, usually some students at "MSTP" programs receive non-MSTP funding. For example, foreign students are not allowed to receive MSTP funds yet attend many MSTP-funded MD/PhD programs, where they are funded through institutional/PI/other funding.

Basically, it does not much affect you as a student if the program guarantees full funding. The only question is where the money comes from. I would venture to guess that MSTP-funded programs tend to be better established in terms of getting MD/PhDs through because the MSTP funding tends to be disbursed after site visits, "with strings attached," but others can correct me here. That said, one may have a fantastic experience at a non-MSTP MD/PhD program or have a really terrible one at a top MSTP school. All a matter of fit, luck, and some skill.

Wrt #3, I have (unfortunately) no idea.

 

[URHere]

To answer your third point:

3. Why does OHSU not show up on this list of MSTP programs funded by NIGMS, even though NIH's RePORT website shows that OHSU has this MSTP grant that is from NIGMS?

OHSU was an MSTP program until fall of 2008. The training grant was not renewed, and OHSU has been a member of the MD/PhD camp since then.

 

[Neuronix]

1. What's the difference between an official "MSTP" and any other MD/PhD program?

In addition to nothingman's great description, I will chime in to say that MSTPs are under pressure from the government to not require payback if you drop the PhD. So they do not require payback if you drop the PhD portion for the first two years of medical school.

non-MSTP MD/PhD programs often make you sign a repayment contract when you start.

2. How do you know if a program is an official "MSTP" or just another MD/PhD program?

The list you linked to.

 

[nothingman]

Totally forgot about this very important technicality. This is probably the greatest distinction between the two types of programs from a student's perspective.

non-MSTP MD/PhD programs often make you sign a repayment contract when you start.

 

[chutzpah]

Same thing happened at UConn if I recall correctly. They were a MSTP up until a couple years ago and lost their grant. They're hoping to renew it but with the government cut backs I think it's unlikely.

 

[24thGrade]

In addition to nothingman's great description, I will chime in to say that MSTPs are under pressure from the government to not require payback if you drop the PhD. So they do not require payback if you drop the PhD portion for the first two years of medical school.

non-MSTP MD/PhD programs often make you sign a repayment contract when you start.

I applied to 4 non-MSTP MD-PhD program, all of which were in Texas. At least 3 of them (maybe 4) did not required any such contracts and did not require any repayment if you chose to drop the PhD. Maybe this is unique to Texas though....

While what others have said is mostly true, one thing to keep in mind that there is NO program that funds all of its students through the NIH grant. I believe on average (NIH may even required this), that only ~1/4 the funding for MSTPs comes from that grant. The school, via various mechanisms, pays the rest.

"MSTP" is really just a label that signifies a program is run with NIH's goals/desires in mind. While I'm not sure it is true, UT Houston claimed that they were unable to get the grant previously because they want their students to do 3 years of med school before beginning the PhD. Anyways, if a program isn't run in a manner that the NIH sees fit, they're not getting the money or the label.

 

[PTPoeny]

I applied to 4 non-MSTP MD-PhD program, all of which were in Texas. At least 3 of them (maybe 4) did not required any such contracts and did not require any repayment if you chose to drop the PhD. Maybe this is unique to Texas though....

I go to a non-MSTP MD-PhD program outside of Texas and we don't have to repay if you drop the PhD.

 

[Neuronix]

I was accepted to two non-MSTP MD/PhD programs. Both required payback clauses. One has since become MSTP. YMMV, as I applied in 2002 and who knows how dated my advice is getting.

 

[bd4727]

I applied to 4 non-MSTP MD-PhD program, all of which were in Texas. At least 3 of them (maybe 4) did not required any such contracts and did not require any repayment if you chose to drop the PhD. Maybe this is unique to Texas though....

While what others have said is mostly true, one thing to keep in mind that there is NO program that funds all of its students through the NIH grant. I believe on average (NIH may even required this), that only ~1/4 the funding for MSTPs comes from that grant. The school, via various mechanisms, pays the rest.

"MSTP" is really just a label that signifies a program is run with NIH's goals/desires in mind. While I'm not sure it is true, UT Houston claimed that they were unable to get the grant previously because they want their students to do 3 years of med school before beginning the PhD. Anyways, if a program isn't run in a manner that the NIH sees fit, they're not getting the money or the label.

It is more than 1/4, although this is true. However, those slots, once awarded, already have money allocated to them from the medical school and NIH grant. Meaning there is no possible way your MSTP can stop funding you while you are in the program, once you start. So it's not as simple as the school just kicking in some money on top, they have to have a separate pot that covers the number of slots they were awarded and that money can't be moved around.

 

[Enkidu]

Totally forgot about this very important technicality. This is probably the greatest distinction between the two types of programs from a student's perspective.

Nah, I don't think this is that common. Nearly all non-MSTP MD/PhD programs are at least trying to get MSTP funded, and in order to get that funding they can't require students to pay back their stipends.

This may be an issue in a certain calibre of programs, but I can't imagine that any but the most nihilistic of programs would completely preclude the possibility of getting the grant by forcing payback.

 

[gbwillner]

It's one thing to tell students that they need to pay back MS1&2 if they drop out, and it's another thing to enforce it. They may use it to "motivate" you to complete the program. What's the point in forcing a student to pay back the money- it's like squeezing blood from a stone.
I would say the major difference between MSTP and non-MSTP is a general caliber of program. Most large academic instiutions with famous and large research departments with a history of success (good for training) have MSTP funding. Of course this is not universal, but general.

 

[Neuronix]

My experience here with one program and the NIGMS MSTP director here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=627722&postcount=8

Note that at that time Mayo did inform me they intended to have me sign a payback clause even though they were becoming a MSTP. I withdrew.