Confused and in need of feedback

[BatmanGirl]

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I really want to be a doctor, but I really want to be in the military, preferably navy or AF. I am already admitted to TTU for pre-med in fall '08 but its so hard trying to figure out whether I should do that first then join the military or go ahead and join. My ASVAB scores are decent and could probably get me a medical job but I'm skeptical about being able to get my schooling done. I keep changing my mind about everything and it is constantly on my mind!! Aaah!
I would really appreciated some feedback on what some of yall have done or what might be best

 

[PharmD2MD]

I really want to be a doctor, but I really want to be in the military, preferably navy or AF. I am already admitted to TTU for pre-med in fall '08 but its so hard trying to figure out whether I should do that first then join the military or go ahead and join. My ASVAB scores are decent and could probably get me a medical job but I'm skeptical about being able to get my schooling done. I keep changing my mind about everything and it is constantly on my mind!! Aaah!
I would really appreciated some feedback on what some of yall have done or what might be best

Don't enlist now. Here's what I'd do: get your degree, get into med school, then revisit the idea. Enlisting doesn't really get your foot in the door as far as medical corps goes, but getting into med school is huge. Enlisting will probably interrupt or significantly delay your undergrad education. Read a lot of these threads. Talk to as many active duty docs as you can. It's good to go into it with your eyes open.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

You may have walked into the wrong room with this question. 90% of the feedback will be skewed negatively as far as the military is concerned. And, no, SDN is not a systamitically randomized sample of the population, as will no doubt be proposed.

 

[TX_NFS]

but I'm skeptical about being able to get my schooling done. I keep changing my mind about everything and it is constantly on my mind!!

For the first part, are you referring to undergrad, med school, or both? Either way, why would you be skeptical? If you really want to become a doctor, sooner or later unfortunately you're gonna have to do the school stuff.

For the second part, I'm guessing you are going back and forth whether or not to go into the military first (before undergrad), but if it helps any, I don't think you're really alone in having questions or constant switching your mind. Undergrads in college at least are famous for switching majors willy-nilly (and I ended up doing so last semester myself... ) For advice, I'm afraid I can't give any since I'm going through undergrad right now and have yet to experience the big, bad, world outside of it. At the very least I hope you've talked to other people close to you and who know you better, first, before resorting to an online forum. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

For the first part, are you referring to undergrad, med school, or both? Either way, why would you be skeptical? If you really want to become a doctor, sooner or later unfortunately you're gonna have to do the school stuff.

For the second part, I'm guessing you are going back and forth whether or not to go into the military first (before undergrad), but if it helps any, I don't think you're really alone in having questions or constant switching your mind. Undergrads in college at least are famous for switching majors willy-nilly (and I ended up doing so last semester myself... ) For advice, I'm afraid I can't give any since I'm going through undergrad right now and have yet to experience the big, bad, world outside of it. At the very least I hope you've talked to other people close to you and who know you better, first, before resorting to an online forum. Good luck with whatever you choose.

I think (but I can't say for sure) what she meant by skeptical about getting schooling done was with regard to having the time to do it while on active duty.

If this is the case, good for you--it is difficult to get it done, and is particularly MOS specific. (MOS=what job you do in the military). It would be beneifical to figure that part out first if you are worried about it.

If I am wrong, the TX is absolutely right--you have to do it, so your own motivation is the deal breaker.

 

[BatmanGirl]

I am skeptical about getting premed done while on active duty. My (Navy) recruiter talked to me and told me it could be done but I dont know how easy it would be or it would take longer or if its not even worth trying and wasting about 4-6yrs of my life. I wouldnt be as worried about it but I need to come to a decision pretty soon.

 

[Mirror Form]

You may have walked into the wrong room with this question. 90% of the feedback will be skewed negatively as far as the military is concerned. And, no, SDN is not a systamitically randomized sample of the population, as will no doubt be proposed.

Out of curiousity, what experience do you have? It appears from your profile that you're a psychology student. If that's the case, then you have no clue what medical school, residency, and being an attending physician is really like. I'm not trying to be rude, but in all honesty I've found that most allied health professionals have a lot less insight then they think into the field of medicine. This is especially true when they talk about job satisfaction and training requirments.

As a side note, I've known several allied health professionals in the military (eg nutritionist, etc) who decided to go to med school and thought it would be great to do HPSP. They have absolutely no idea what we talk about behind closed doors.

 

[Mirror Form]

I really want to be a doctor, but I really want to be in the military, preferably navy or AF. I am already admitted to TTU for pre-med in fall '08 but its so hard trying to figure out whether I should do that first then join the military or go ahead and join. My ASVAB scores are decent and could probably get me a medical job but I'm skeptical about being able to get my schooling done. I keep changing my mind about everything and it is constantly on my mind!! Aaah!
I would really appreciated some feedback on what some of yall have done or what might be best

Why put college off? If you want to be a doctor and join the military, do ROTC while a pre-med in college. Medicine is a very long road, so don't put it off too long.

 

[BatmanGirl]

Why put college off? If you want to be a doctor and join the military, do ROTC while a pre-med in college. Medicine is a very long road, so don't put it off too long.

Well if I do ROTC and dont get into med school the first yr then I think I have to go into the military as a commissioned officer and wait til thats over with

 

[Mirror Form]

Well if I do ROTC and dont get into med school the first yr then I think I have to go into the military as a commissioned officer and wait til thats over with

Very true. Although because you'll have already finished your premed requirements, it'll be easier to apply for med school while active duty. Regardless, worst case scenario it won't be any different then going into the military first. Although likely it'll be a better route to medicine.

 

[Perrotfish]

Don't go active duty and expect to be a successful premed at the same time, at least unless you're much smarter than I am. I know that it is definitely possible to get, or at least make significant progress towards, a degree while on active duty. Premedicine, however, is a 60 hrs/week in and of itself. I don't think I would have been able to work full time and get any sort of a competitve GPA. Also you can't take chemistry and biology labs in an online university, and I'm not sure how many night colleges would offer those kinds of courses. And of course your progress towards a degree probably stops if you get deployed to Iraq.

ROTC would be a better option, but keep in mind that if you go ROTC, and then go to medical school, you're looking at a minimum obligation of 9 years not including residency. That's a lot of commitment for an organization you haven't worked with yet.

Other posters please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.

 

[IgD]

If your main goal is to be a doctor I think it would be difficult to accomplish that while on active duty. Your command will want you to focus 100% on the mission and may not be accommodating to your personal goals. I recommend going to school full time. If you want to be in the military join through HPSP, FAP or USUHS when you are in college. For the last few years many of those spots went unfilled so they are looking for people.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Out of curiousity, what experience do you have? It appears from your profile that you're a psychology student. If that's the case, then you have no clue what medical school, residency, and being an attending physician is really like. I'm not trying to be rude, but in all honesty I've found that most allied health professionals have a lot less insight then they think into the field of medicine. This is especially true when they talk about job satisfaction and training requirments.

As a side note, I've known several allied health professionals in the military (eg nutritionist, etc) who decided to go to med school and thought it would be great to do HPSP. They have absolutely no idea what we talk about behind closed doors.

Try to understand the context of the statement. I was not talking about "the field of medicine." I was talking about the overwhelmingly negative military sentiment on this site. This is undeniably true of these forums. Of course I don't know anything about being an attending phsysician. I am not that kind of doctor.

Not that it is relevant (one only needs to come to this site and read it occasionally) you asked about my experience:

I served 4 years on active duty, 3 years in the Guard.
I hold Masters Degrees in counseling and clinical psychology.
I am a Department of Homeland Security Psychology of Terrorism Fellow.
As a 4th year PhD student I have already published 4 peer reviewed research articles.
I have approximately 7000 hours of clinical experience.
I have written and been approved as the principle investigator for 3 human subjects research projects.
I am currently on externship at the VA's National Center for PTSD
I am on the California National Guard fast response team for Critical Incident Stress Debriefings in the wake of disasters.
and I am a US Army Health Professions Scholar.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

I am skeptical about getting premed done while on active duty. My (Navy) recruiter talked to me and told me it could be done but I dont know how easy it would be or it would take longer or if its not even worth trying and wasting about 4-6yrs of my life. I wouldnt be as worried about it but I need to come to a decision pretty soon.

I think the consensus seems to be related to what your goal really is. If you want to be a doctor, and you want to be in the military, I doubt that enlisting, trying to do undergrad while in, and then going to med school is your best bet. Go to school first, and after that if you are still gung ho about the military, try the HPSP, USUHS, FAP route. The enlisted time will be consumed with mission stuff, as was already mentioned and taking the gamble that you will have a "pro-education" command is risky.

 

[Mirror Form]

ROTC would be a better option, but keep in mind that if you go ROTC, and then go to medical school, you're looking at a minimum obligation of 9 years not including residency. That's a lot of commitment for an organization you haven't worked with yet.

Not so. You don't have to take the HPSP scholarship if you do ROTC. You can always just take an ed-delay to pay for medschool on your own dime.

Although, you still won't actually start paying off your four year active duty commitment until somewhere b/w 11 to 15 years after you sign the rotc contract and start college. A lot can change in fifteen years (and that's just when you START paying off your obligation)!

 

[colbgw02]

If you were to do the ROTC route, keep this in mind...

If you're applying to medical school while on active duty (fulfilling your ROTC obligation), ensure that you will have completed your obligation prior to the first day of medical school. The military is notorious for not letting people leave active duty early to start medical school, even if it's only a few days.

Please to explain:
1) One guy I know was 90 days short of finishing his obligation when his medical school started. Since his state didn't allow deferment (and he didn't want to reapply), he was forced to take HPSP so that the military would allow him to go to medical school.
2) Second guy was in the same situation as above, but instead of 90 days short of finishing his obligation, he was 8 days short. In this case, I'm pretty sure he just showed up late to medical school.

Point is, they want their full pound of flesh - not just 0.9 pounds.

 

[jeepgirl]

My background: current AD enlisted soldier in the Medical Service Corps. I am fortunate to be in a "pro-education" command. I have friends who are not as fortunate as me ...

Okay, it is going to be exceedingly difficult to complete the bulk of your pre-med courses on active duty. Just the way it is right now, with OPTEMPO and all. If you're able to complete 2-5 classes per year, consider yourself lucky. Also, you might have difficulty even enrolling in courses that you need, like O-Chem I and II. You'll have to hope that you get stationed somewhere with a good education center and/or great access to local colleges. If you get stuck on a rotating, off-shift, or on-call schedule, you can pretty much kiss the idea of taking a traditional class goodbye, and you'll be relegated to distance learning courses, which can be hit and miss in finding your needed courses.

I could go more into the overall enlisted lifestyle if you want, feel free to PM me. While my experiences aren't with the Navy or AF specifically, a lot of it is universal to the military in general.

My advice: you need to decide what is more important right now - being a doctor or being in the military. If it is being a doctor, go to college, do well in your classes, and go to med school. The military will wait for you, trust me 😉. There's HPSP, USUHS, FAP, etc.

If you do decide to enlist, make sure you review all your options in all of the branches before you sign on the dotted line. My research is a couple of years old, but if you're interested, I'd be happy to share it with you. Again, feel free to PM me. Don't fall for the $$$, ie sign a 6-yr AD contract b/c they offer a larger bonus as opposed to the 3 or 4-yr AD contract. A lot of folks end up regretting it.

 

[BatmanGirl]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I'm going to go to college first and do ROTC. I'm going to try AFROTC and if I like it I'm going to go to field training and sign the contract. Without the scholarship I have til junior year before I have to sign.

 

[megadon]

Make sure you ask a lot of questions about cross commissioning at the end of your ROTC hitch. Or be pretty sure you want to go Air Force. 10 years ago when I graduated from Navy, we had a few guys go Army and a few Air Force. However, they were going straight into a line officer type field (pilots, etc, what you think of when you think Army and Air Force, not support jobs, like legal or medical). I don't know anyone who tried to swap services for the purpose of going med corps, so I don't know how that works. If you did go ROTC, and then went to USUHS, you can ask to switch there, although I've heard it really helps to find someone in the other service there who wants to switch with you.

I think you are on the right track with the try before you buy, best of luck.

 

[alpha62]

this site may be 90% neg. but the real military is slanted 90% pos. and that's exactly how we got into this Iraq mess.

If you're getting pos. feedback, it's probably coming from one of the " yes " men that helped get us into this mess, are heavily invested into the BS machine that keeps this 1/2 million dollar a minute nightmare going.

If you get involved with military medicine, you'll spend 1/2 your time being a human claymore mine.... i.e. face to the enemy and a ***** behind you with his hand on the switch.

 

[Mirror Form]

the real military is slanted 90% pos. and that's exactly how we got into this Iraq mess.

WTF are you talking about? The military leadership wasn't pushing for an Iraq invasion. Shinseki told the president we needed more troops before going in. Unfortunately that caused him to be fired. Rumsfeld then brought a "yes-man" in to take Shinseki's place.

 

[midn]

Not so. You don't have to take the HPSP scholarship if you do ROTC. You can always just take an ed-delay to pay for medschool on your own dime.

Although, you still won't actually start paying off your four year active duty commitment until somewhere b/w 11 to 15 years after you sign the rotc contract and start college. A lot can change in fifteen years (and that's just when you START paying off your obligation)!

As far as Navy is concerned, you have to take the HPSP scholarship out of ROTC. At least, that's how it was for me about a year ago.

Also, the NROTC 4-year scholarship gives you a 1-year freebie to see if you really like ROTC. After your first summer cruise, you either sign the contract or drop out of ROTC. Even after signing the contract, it's not impossible to get out, but if you do get out you have to pay back all the tuition money. If you drop out during the freebie year, you don't pay back tuition money. I dropped out after signing my contract, but it's been over 9 months and the Navy has yet to bill my tuition money 😛.

 

[alpha62]

WTF are you talking about? The military leadership wasn't pushing for an Iraq invasion. Shinseki told the president we needed more troops before going in. Unfortunately that caused him to be fired. Rumsfeld then brought a "yes-man" in to take Shinseki's place.

Shinseki was what, one out of a 100 generals, not to mention Gen Sanchez, the biggest Chogi boy of them all.

You know as well as I do, especially in MEDCOM, you find and report a problem, YOU become THE PROBLEM.

 

[Mirror Form]

Shinseki was what, one out of a 100 generals, not to mention Gen Sanchez, the biggest Chogi boy of them all.

You know as well as I do, especially in MEDCOM, you find and report a problem, YOU become THE PROBLEM.

I'm not typically one to defend the military generals. But it's ridiculous to blame the military's leadership for being over-ruled by the elected president's administration. It's well known by people who read the news that the military leadership didn't agree with Rumsfeld's plans for going into Iraq without enough troops. There's a reason Rumsfeld had to bring Schoomaker out of retirement.

 

[alpha62]

I'm not typically one to defend the military generals. But it's ridiculous to blame the military's leadership for being over-ruled by the elected president's administration. It's well known by people who read the news that the military leadership didn't agree with Rumsfeld's plans for going into Iraq without enough troops. There's a reason Rumsfeld had to bring Schoomaker out of retirement.

If you don't agree, SPEAK UP ! Guys like Sanchez were THE MAN to tell this clown in the POTUS chair he's full of it. Sanchez didn't do that, he should have. This business of growing retirement gonads after your pension is secure is BS. It's bad enough they rolled over on the troops while they were on AD, they're still screwing the troops as a talking head making $$$ on CNN after the fact.

As far as our own MEDCOM backyard, well, Walter Reed is a pretty good example of a culture of yes men. In fact, If I were the S.G, I would have fired the freakin CSM on the way out. That's a worthless position anyway, left over from the old NCO mafia days and they're supposed to take care of all the non-tactical crap like barracks, chow, and oh yeah, make sure the TOC is swept out and cleaned everyday.

This army is still just barely a citizen soldier operation; it's not the Roman legion. Using good order and discipline as an excuse to screw everybody under you is pretty worn out these days and nobody's buying it anymore. There's no more draft, that means every Joe in this jacked up company is a stockholder now.

That's why I don't recommend anybody with any other possible option in life submit to the will of these malignant narcissists.

If you want a good example of a corprate culture that's tried this model already, look at Enron and all the bubbas that went down with them out of loyalty to the boss

 

[Mirror Form]

If you don't agree, SPEAK UP ! Guys like Sanchez were THE MAN to tell this clown in the POTUS chair he's full of it.

So the blame lies with the generals for not bad mouthing the civilian elected administration and getting fired? And btw, there were some who spoke up, like Batiste. Of course I'm not going to defend Sanchez, but those guys got to the top b/c the people doing the hiring (rumsfeld) wanted yes men.

 

[Galo]

This is going off the original post, and I'm sorry if it pisses anyone off. But in regards to the conversation above: I spoke directly to the author of the book I have often mentioned here" John Boyd, the fighter pilot who changed the art of war. He put me in contact with one of the people who surrounded him, a watchdog that spent over 30 yrs in the pentagon. I caught him between ports as he had recently retired and was sailing the world. He was kind enough to listen to my story, and gave me some real insight. It was his experience that once you became a general, your morals have to be "moldable." He likened it to a pervasive virus that has infiltrated the entire military system. The ideals that are often expoused at least in the AF: service before self, excellence in all we do, and Integrity, (I had to look the last one up!) were just lip service, and that at certain pay levels, these ideals did not exist, and that a prerequisite for getting to certain levels were "moldable ethics." Unfortunately I also experienced these loose ethics in almost, (not all), every commander that has bought and sold the company line above all else. Certainly for me one of the most important reasons I recommend prospective doctors really look before they leap.

Certainly many of the events I witnessed seemed to confirm that. As far as the war in Iraq, history will tell the twisted tale that was concocted, and who played their roles.