Congressional Battle

[hamburger90]

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Probably most of you are aware of the undergoing battle for budget adjustment and debt ceiling raise in the US government. No matter what the outcome is, there will be substantial cuts for states, involving medicare and medicaid. The obama administration seems to be compromising to a totally new system of healthcare, no matter what he does. I am just an undergraduate that has a dream of becoming a dentist and indeed will become a dentist. Moreover, it cannot be denied that there is an interest from all of us to essentially be part of an upper middle class. There is no correlation between the love we can have for our profession and the monetary outcome of it, simply i think we all deserve to be paid for the hard work we put in for eight years of our lives, and that makes us different from most of the population. As mentioned before, i am just an undergraduate but the arising political issues are worrying me quiet bit, and i would love to hear from some of you involved in dentistry way deeper than me. What will happen to thousands of dentist that work for big medical institutions when the government cuts 100 billion dollars on medicaid and medicare? What will happen to thousands of dentist when taxes are raised on them, making their overhead probably 50 or 60 percent? yes they still make money but the beer in the store wont cost 5 dollars anymore... What is the future of dentistry?
Thank you all

 

[Bereno]

I'm also interested in what people say... I'm not terribly literate in the political world, so I will just sit back and watch 😀

 

[jeffity]

I admit I'm pretty ignorant to all of it. I've become quite the sloppy citizen. Perhaps those who frequent the Dental Forum (more dentists participate there) can offer greater insight into the effects and future.

 

[UCF FINatic]

Personally, I do believe dentist should be paid, and paid well for all the consessions made throughout college and the huge amount of debt/risk undertaken. If company CEOs make millions why shouldn't people in healthcare make a decent living too?

That being said I do not believe the government should raise the debt ceiling. If the government needs to cut back certain programs in order to keep our country's debt undercontrol I am all for it. Honestly, it scares me how much debt our country is in; at some point we are going to have to pay it all back and I am scared we are signing checks that our children and grandchildren won't be able to pay. Just my two cents.

 

[UCF FINatic]

I also find it interesting that we spent trillions dollars to stimulate the economy and to "bail out" the banks and lenders and now we are worried about how we are going to pay for other stuff. You think the people in charge woould have a plan...

 

[UCLAzy]

are you trying to argue that you're not going to be paid after these supposed budget cuts?

imean seriously, deal with it. and if it's too much to handle -- dont become a dentist.

it's simple economics...things like dentistry and medicine pay well because there is a high barrier of entry. if the opportunity cost of being a dentist or doctor is too great due to cost and time spent...people will stop doing it >> shortage of dentists >> government is forced to incentivize. incentives are already in place to serve the country, undeserved areas, and even commit to research because those things aren't as lucrative as just practicing.

if you come out even or ahead in life, you should really consider yourself blessed because you're more fortunate than most.

 

[UCLAzy]

Personally, I do believe dentist should be paid, and paid well for all the consessions made throughout college and the huge amount of debt/risk undertaken. If company CEOs make millions why shouldn't people in healthcare make a decent living too?

That being said I do not believe the government should raise the debt ceiling. If the government needs to cut back certain programs in order to keep our country's debt undercontrol I am all for it. Honestly, it scares me how much debt our country is in; at some point we are going to have to pay it all back and I am scared we are signing checks that our children and grandchildren won't be able to pay. Just my two cents.

so you think things should be cut, as long as it doesn't affect dentists [read: you]. you should be in politics =)

 

[slm266]

the medicaid system is a nightmare that gets abused. Just by being poor and being on medicaid you can get braces for free (thats $5k out of tax payers pockets).

 

[hamburger90]

The countries debt becomes "word" money... There is no possible physical evaluation of what 14.3 trillion dollars looks like... The biggest concern i personally have is the equalization of classes in the US. If the billions of dollars are made in cuts to programs that give dentists and doctors their lucrative living, health professionals will probably represent an average individual in years to come. I am personally from Cuba, just to present an idea of how it works over there... My mom was a doctor and she made 25 dollars a month, with respect to a average state worker that made 18 dollars a month. Many believe that all this is political development for soon to be elections, but that was the same thing that many cubans thought back in the 60s were similar elections were held. My point is not that there might be sings of nationalism ahead, instead i think we should all be worried of what the future of this government holds for health professionals since many changes are deniably in play, and we are the future health professionals

 

[hamburger90]

keep in mind the proposed plan from Mr. Obama... Increase taxes and perhaps interest rates for student loans, in his own worlds "I think students should scarify perhaps a little". THere is a dude on the other forum complaining that he already owns 400k for BU, higher interest to 400k! 😱

 

[hamburger90]

are you trying to argue that you're not going to be paid after these supposed budget cuts?

imean seriously, deal with it. and if it's too much to handle -- dont become a dentist.

it's simple economics...things like dentistry and medicine pay well because there is a high barrier of entry. if the opportunity cost of being a dentist or doctor is too great due to cost and time spent...people will stop doing it >> shortage of dentists >> government is forced to incentivize. incentives are already in place to serve the country, undeserved areas, and even commit to research because those things aren't as lucrative as just practicing.

if you come out even or ahead in life, you should really consider yourself blessed because you're more fortunate than most.

you should volunteer when you graduate as a dentist.... I do not think you are too ahead in life without understanding what money means in this society.

 

[BoxerRumble]

The countries debt becomes "word" money... There is no possible physical evaluation of what 14.3 trillion dollars looks like... The biggest concern i personally have is the equalization of classes in the US. If the billions of dollars are made in cuts to programs that give dentists and doctors their lucrative living, health professionals will probably represent an average individual in years to come. I am personally from Cuba, just to present an idea of how it works over there... My mom was a doctor and she made 25 dollars a month, with respect to a average state worker that made 18 dollars a month. Many believe that all this is political development for soon to be elections, but that was the same thing that many cubans thought back in the 60s were similar elections were held. My point is not that there might be sings of nationalism ahead, instead i think we should all be worried of what the future of this government holds for health professionals since many changes are deniably in play, and we are the future health professionals

It's really hard to compare US to any other nations in terms of politics because fundamentally we were built on capitalism and all about making money and government staying out of the way. Well because of this, the huge corporations basically own our government system and they keep getting richer. Like the bail outs, the government gave them money and all the top executives are making huge amounts of money while the economy has not been fixed.

Couple of points..

Talking about politics is like talking about religion, it's hard to change anyone's mind and we need to be respectful and patient. Know that what you say probably won't change a person's perspective and views on life which shapes their political ideas.

Here's what I think, we really need to cut back on a LOT of programs. Cutting NASA, in my opinion, was a great move. We can always go back and fund NASA once our economy is better. We should really cut military spending and stop getting involved in other people's affairs when they didn't ask for it in the first place. We also really need to tax the rich heavily. When I say rich, I'm not talking about dentists, because personally, 100-200k feels like middle class in where I live. We need to tax the CEOs, billionaires, millionaires, etc. I don't have a source but I think they have so many tax loop holes that they really aren't paying that much. Since these people have the Republicans in their pockets, this isn't likely to happen. You can see how Republicans are trying to cut spending on EDUCATION! And making college students pay back their loan interests right away without deferment??

And as much as we talk about any of this on these boards, I doubt any change will come about unless something drastic happens. The country is built on capitalism and money making, and caters to the rich and powerful. These people run the government, so there's nothing we can do to change it by voting. They will say whatever they need to say to get elected and not follow through. The only thing we did right was get Obama in office (and even then the bail outs were not such a good move), but at least it SEEMS like he has the country's best interest at heart.

 

[BoxerRumble]

keep in mind the proposed plan from Mr. Obama... Increase taxes and perhaps interest rates for student loans, in his own worlds "I think students should scarify perhaps a little". THere is a dude on the other forum complaining that he already owns 400k for BU, higher interest to 400k! 😱

Well everyone has to sacrifice. I think he's trying to get something done and please the Republicans so at least we can take a tiny step forward.

 

[UCLAzy]

you should volunteer when you graduate as a dentist.... I do not think you are too ahead in life without understanding what money means in this society.

i pay my own rent. i buy my own food. and i plan on taking advantage of one of the incentive programs available to dentists.

but you're right. i dont know what it's like to make far more than i need. i do know what it's like to barely make enough for rent though!

 

[hamburger90]

It's really hard to compare US to any other nations in terms of politics because fundamentally we were built on capitalism and all about making money and government staying out of the way. Well because of this, the huge corporations basically own our government system and they keep getting richer. Like the bail outs, the government gave them money and all the top executives are making huge amounts of money while the economy has not been fixed.

Couple of points..

Talking about politics is like talking about religion, it's hard to change anyone's mind and we need to be respectful and patient. Know that what you say probably won't change a person's perspective and views on life which shapes their political ideas.

Here's what I think, we really need to cut back on a LOT of programs. Cutting NASA, in my opinion, was a great move. We can always go back and fund NASA once our economy is better. We should really cut military spending and stop getting involved in other people's affairs when they didn't ask for it in the first place. We also really need to tax the rich heavily. When I say rich, I'm not talking about dentists, because personally, 100-200k feels like middle class in where I live. We need to tax the CEOs, billionaires, millionaires, etc. I don't have a source but I think they have so many tax loop holes that they really aren't paying that much. Since these people have the Republicans in their pockets, this isn't likely to happen. You can see how Republicans are trying to cut spending on EDUCATION! And making college students pay back their loan interests right away without deferment??

And as much as we talk about any of this on these boards, I doubt any change will come about unless something drastic happens. The country is built on capitalism and money making, and caters to the rich and powerful. These people run the government, so there's nothing we can do to change it by voting. They will say whatever they need to say to get elected and not follow through. The only thing we did right was get Obama in office (and even then the bail outs were not such a good move), but at least it SEEMS like he has the country's best interest at heart.

well said, except for last part

 

[yappy]

I doubt that dentists and doctors are living high life styles because of medicaid and medicare. These programs undercomponsate for services; so much so that every dentist in my area doesnt accept them. They have patients pay out of pocket instead or take good privite insurences.

I think with dentistry most insurances are payment assists anyways. It is a cash game or you can accept 3rd party financing from patients in the form of a dental/medical loan company.

Having said that I think dentists/doctors should push for higher componsating medicare/caid or not accept them at all and let the market determine the rate. With health services there exists an inelastic demand curve; therefore, we only need to keep supply down (and gov out) in order to keep dentistry a well paying field.

I do agree - raise the debt limit, cut military spending, cut services in medcaid/care (means test, raise age requirements), and adopt a tax code that will close loop holes for big business and the wealthy.

 

[dentalWorks]

So far... alot of the budget cuts / socialized medicine talk we are hearing about is mostly on the medical side (dentistry isn't getting too much attention ~ yet).

Another thing to consider is, dentistry is (on average) paid out of pocket. Most insurances cover the very minimum of what the patient actually needs, so alot of times, the patient just pays out of pocket (cash, credit card, monthly payments, etc).

I don't see the future of dentistry (the next 10-20 years) being affected that much... Those of us with strong business mentality will make good $$$, and those of us who never learn to run a practice will either work as associates or fail at a private practice ~ either case, you probably won't be happy with your income (considering the 300-400k+ of educational debt behind them)

 

[A6project]

I don't know if you guys watched obama giving news conference two days ago. I woke up early although I went out and got to watch it.

Republican wants to cut spending (medicare, medicaid, SS). Democrats wants to cut spending but in a way so that social welfare programs are maintained. Republicans won't agree on raising taxes on top 3% ppl unless Democrats/Obama cut spending massively.
I guess some people speculate there may be a partial 'default'.

Either way, spending will be cut and taxes will be raised. Dentists will be taxed heavily. That's for sure. People will get porcelain crowns rather than gold, etc.(in my opinion) Basically higher taxes and less income

I guess bigger problem is that how this debt crisis will affect patients coming to see dentists. There will be always demand for dental care, yet dental care is something people give up in tough economy.

Personally, i think that California is bascially donzo. The state has already enough dental schools producing a lot of dentists, and a lot of dentists move there too. Fierce competition. The state government has $26 billion deficit and their annual budget is only $10billion.
Something to look into when you get accepted.

For me though, dentistry is not all about money. Dentists make good money compared to other professions. I will be happy if I make around 150k. I don't need a bentley, porsche, or a 10bed house mansion.

Doing what you love for a living is a wonderful idea. I personally wanna spend a lot of time serving for the underprivileged.

 

[therock21]

It's really hard to compare US to any other nations in terms of politics because fundamentally we were built on capitalism and all about making money and government staying out of the way. Well because of this, the huge corporations basically own our government system and they keep getting richer. Like the bail outs, the government gave them money and all the top executives are making huge amounts of money while the economy has not been fixed.

Couple of points..

Talking about politics is like talking about religion, it's hard to change anyone's mind and we need to be respectful and patient. Know that what you say probably won't change a person's perspective and views on life which shapes their political ideas.

Here's what I think, we really need to cut back on a LOT of programs. Cutting NASA, in my opinion, was a great move. We can always go back and fund NASA once our economy is better. We should really cut military spending and stop getting involved in other people's affairs when they didn't ask for it in the first place. We also really need to tax the rich heavily. When I say rich, I'm not talking about dentists, because personally, 100-200k feels like middle class in where I live. We need to tax the CEOs, billionaires, millionaires, etc. I don't have a source but I think they have so many tax loop holes that they really aren't paying that much. Since these people have the Republicans in their pockets, this isn't likely to happen. You can see how Republicans are trying to cut spending on EDUCATION! And making college students pay back their loan interests right away without deferment??

And as much as we talk about any of this on these boards, I doubt any change will come about unless something drastic happens. The country is built on capitalism and money making, and caters to the rich and powerful. These people run the government, so there's nothing we can do to change it by voting. They will say whatever they need to say to get elected and not follow through. The only thing we did right was get Obama in office (and even then the bail outs were not such a good move), but at least it SEEMS like he has the country's best interest at heart.

You are a very confused person. Taxing the rich won't work, you'd have to raise the highest income tax bracket to 134% (impossible) to close the deficit, and that is taxing everyone that makes over 250K a year so you're plan to tax only the super rich is even more irrelevant.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/10/07/you-can’t-tax-the-rich-enough-to-close-the-deficit/

 

[A6project]

The only thing we did right was get Obama in office (and even then the bail outs were not such a good move), but at least it SEEMS like he has the country's best interest at heart.

can't agree with u more

 

[therock21]

can't agree with u more

I don't understand this, why is it good that we elected a guy that 'SEEMS like he has the country's best interest at heart.'? What does it matter if it seems like he wants the best for the nation if he is clueless and a terrible president? Everyone that wants to be president wants to do what they think will help the nation, some people just have ideas that don't work no matter how sincere they are.

 

[hamburger90]

like the speaker of the house said! "we want a plan not a speech" he is very intimidated to have the government default under his mandate! he is sh%*^%3 his pants... We will pay high prices for electing obama. Big governments have never worked and is proven drastically with countries like Canada and Greece, etc. Higher taxes to the rich will destroy employment... less private insurance... less work for dentists! if you can understand Le Chanteliers principle, you can understand that. He is all talk and after all! what has he done???

 

[A6project]

I don't understand this, why is it good that we elected a guy that 'SEEMS like he has the country's best interest at heart.'? What does it matter if it seems like he wants the best for the nation if he is clueless and a terrible president? Everyone that wants to be president wants to do what they think will help the nation, some people just have ideas that don't work no matter how sincere they are.

explain ur terrible horrible president. how he failed.
for the stimulus package, it didn't work out. so many ppl think that he failed to turn around the economy.

do u even know that a lot of companies made so much money yet they are not willing to spend money. (there are a lot of ways to measure economy. one is (Michigan's) consumer sentiment index; it measures how consumers feel about economy. How can obama do better when company dont wanna spend?

plus, i bet it wasn't his own idea. i bet a lot of smart financial/economical ppl suggested him to do stimulus that way.

do you think that, if we had a different president, those smart ppl suggested a different plan.

ps i really dont wanna get into politics. keep it simple concise plz.

 

[A6project]

like the speaker of the house said! "we want a plan not a speech" he is very intimidated to have the government default under his mandate! he is sh%*^%3 his pants... We will pay high prices for electing obama. Big governments have never worked and is proven drastically with countries like Canada and Greece, etc. Higher taxes to the rich will destroy employment... less private insurance... less work for dentists! if you can understand Le Chanteliers principle, you can understand that. He is all talk and after all! what has he done???

do you know how much bp 1st, 2nd, 3rd quarter profit of 2010 was? and do you know how many more employee were hired by bp?

ps dont wanna get into politics. if u think that this is potentially going that way, i will delete it

 

[UCF FINatic]

so you think things should be cut, as long as it doesn't affect dentists [read: you]. you should be in politics =)

The American loving side of me doesn't want the cuts while the dentist side of me wants the cuts. Overall, America > Dentistry. I'd rather be a little less rich than my country be bankrupt.

 

[UCF FINatic]

It's really hard to compare US to any other nations in terms of politics because fundamentally we were built on capitalism and all about making money and government staying out of the way. Well because of this, the huge corporations basically own our government system and they keep getting richer. Like the bail outs, the government gave them money and all the top executives are making huge amounts of money while the economy has not been fixed.

Couple of points..

Talking about politics is like talking about religion, it's hard to change anyone's mind and we need to be respectful and patient. Know that what you say probably won't change a person's perspective and views on life which shapes their political ideas.

Here's what I think, we really need to cut back on a LOT of programs. Cutting NASA, in my opinion, was a great move. We can always go back and fund NASA once our economy is better. We should really cut military spending and stop getting involved in other people's affairs when they didn't ask for it in the first place. We also really need to tax the rich heavily. When I say rich, I'm not talking about dentists, because personally, 100-200k feels like middle class in where I live. We need to tax the CEOs, billionaires, millionaires, etc. I don't have a source but I think they have so many tax loop holes that they really aren't paying that much. Since these people have the Republicans in their pockets, this isn't likely to happen. You can see how Republicans are trying to cut spending on EDUCATION! And making college students pay back their loan interests right away without deferment??

And as much as we talk about any of this on these boards, I doubt any change will come about unless something drastic happens. The country is built on capitalism and money making, and caters to the rich and powerful. These people run the government, so there's nothing we can do to change it by voting. They will say whatever they need to say to get elected and not follow through. The only thing we did right was get Obama in office (and even then the bail outs were not such a good move), but at least it SEEMS like he has the country's best interest at heart.

So you are blaming the companies for taking bail out money and not the government for giving it? Capitalism in the traditional sense would have let those banks fail and the local banks would have become the new "big" banks... Government intervention is what started the whole crash of the economy by making laws that provided incentives for banks and lenders to lend money to people they already knew would never be able to repay the loans.

Thats the only thing this country did wrong... This is a dental board, but if you want a lesson about why Obama isn't a good fit for America you can PM me. Using executive orders to bypass Congress to pass bills about Unions, etc. He is abusing countless govermental procedures, since the executive orders were for things vital for the country not Union laws (which he is only doing because they backed him heavily in the previous election). Additionally, he has installed Czars in the goverment, yes Czars people that answer directly to him and no one else, not even the PEOPLE of america (so of those so called Czars even have criminal pasts).

 

[BoxerRumble]

I was going to type out this long response, but I caught myself because like I said, arguing over politics is like arguing over religion. Nothing I can say will sway you and nothing you can say will sway me. All we would do is waste energy typing instead I will focus on my pharm test. I am done with this thread.

Quick comment though - I AM blaming the government for the bail outs, I would rather have those greedy banks fail because I agree, that's how capitalism works. I think it was a mistake.

therock21 - that article is obviously bias and made unfounded claims. First sentence saying how Obama has driven up spending and deficit to historic level. The deficit did not start at zero when he took office, we were already in a hole, and he's trying to dig his way out (which we know...doesn't work). Obviously he's not going to ONLY tax the rich to close the deficit, there has to be cuts made. I would love to see the math on that claim first before I give it any credibility.

ANY article written about politics should be written like a research paper - abstract, intro, protocol, results, discussion. I don't want to read an article and just trust that the journalist has done their job. I want to replicate their results and question their hypothesis until it is proven.

 

[therock21]

ANY article written about politics should be written like a research paper - abstract, intro, protocol, results, discussion. I don't want to read an article and just trust that the journalist has done their job. I want to replicate their results and question their hypothesis until it is proven.

You're nuts dude, and you obviously don't follow politics at all because NO ONE writes political essays in the only way that you would accept.

 

[yappy]

This is false. The heritage foundation is a political active conservitive group - they have a message and a bias.

This was first propigated by the Wall Street Journal and then fox news and other conservitive groups ran with it - though - the Wall street journal did put out a retraction later.

Using CBO numbers this simply isn't true.

For future reference I suggest

http://factcheck.org/

They crunch their numbers using CBO and make an attempt to not have bias - just the facts.

Having said that - I dont think our solution should be taxing all the money from the rich. Rather - we should close tax loops that allow companies like GE to pay zero taxes.

You are a very confused person. Taxing the rich won't work, you'd have to raise the highest income tax bracket to 134% (impossible) to close the deficit, and that is taxing everyone that makes over 250K a year so you're plan to tax only the super rich is even more irrelevant.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/10/07/you-can’t-tax-the-rich-enough-to-close-the-deficit/

 

[therock21]

This is false. The heritage foundation is a political active conservitive group - they have a message and a bias.

This was first propigated by the Wall Street Journal and then fox news and other conservitive groups ran with it - though - the Wall street journal did put out a retraction later.

Using CBO numbers this simply isn't true.

For future reference I suggest

http://factcheck.org/

They crunch their numbers using CBO and make an attempt to not have bias - just the facts.

Having said that - I dont think our solution should be taxing all the money from the rich. Rather - we should close tax loops that allow companies like GE to pay zero taxes.

You just literally made all that up, even Ezra Klein (a big lefty) admits you can't close the deficit through soaking the rich.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/can_we_close_the_budget_defici.html

Heritage is a conservative think tank but their research was legit, but I am glad that you actually know what the CBO is, that's impressive and seems to add credence to your post of ignorance.

 

[yappy]

From their website: http://www.heritage.org/About

"Founded in 1973, The Heritage Foundation is a research and educational institution—a think tank—whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense."

Read this: http://factcheck.org/2011/04/fun-with-deficit-statistics/

"all of the taxable income of those earning more than $100,000 in 2008 was actually $3.4 trillion, more than double the figure published in the editorial. ... The [Wall Street] Journal ran a correction on April 19 on page A16. The online version of the editorial was corrected two days later."


"The $3.4 trillion is more than enough to cover this year's $1.645 trillion projected deficit. Not that anyone is suggesting taking all of that income, or doing anything remotely close to that."

 

[therock21]

See the problem is that I was talking about people making more than $250,000 and you're talking about people making more than $100,000. It depends on what you consider rich I guess.

But yes the Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank as I said before, but their research is legit.

 

[yappy]

Ah I see. Looks like we were looking at different number crunches. Just make sure to take anything you read on that site, or the one I suggested, with a grain of salt. But you already knew that.

BTW - isn't this all really a red herrying, as taxes are at a 50 year low and no one is suggesting taxing anyone at 100%?

What is implicite in these calculations is that the Obama admin wants to tax someone at 100% or near their which isn't true. Rather, he has suggested closing tax loops for large corporations and maybe ending the bush era tax cuts down the road.

Dont get me wrong Rock, I'm a republican. But when unemployment is where it's at, tax rates are as low as they are, corporate profit is at a record high, average wages have been stagnant for 30 years, union participation is very low, and income disparity is at the level it was in the 1920's etc. etc. etc...

I'm starting to feel like this whole trickle-down/supply side econ thing is a bunch of BS.

See the problem is that I was talking about people making more than $250,000 and you're talking about people making more than $100,000. It depends on what you consider rich I guess.

But yes the Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank as I said before, but their research is legit.

 

[Bereno]

Unfortunately, I think the true effects of what a president have done take much longer than 4, or even 8 years to come to fruition. This said, I think its always a game of futility trying to say if our president is doing the right thing, or if what they are doing is going to help. I guess we will find out in the next 10 years lol. This said, there are still a lot of short term effects as well, and those are easy to judge.