Consciousness studies

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chaos

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Does anyone know of programs/faculty researching consciousness? The area is kind of neuroscience and philosophy combined (and probably physics if you can handle it, but I'm woefully untalented in that area), but I'd prefer a neuroscience program if possible. I know there are many philosophy programs in consciousness studies but I'm looking for a neuroscience based program interested in the subject. I know this topic is becoming increasingly popular, and neuroscience is moving away from strict determinism, and maybe even willing to look beyond epiphenomenalism, but I'm not sure quite where to look. Thanks!
 
Does anyone know of programs/faculty researching consciousness? The area is kind of neuroscience and philosophy (and probably physics if you can handle it, but I'm woefully untalented in that area), but I'd prefer a neuroscience program if possible. I know this topic is becoming increasingly popular, but I'm not sure quite where to look. Thanks!

This is an exciting area of research! Have you tried looking at U. of Arizona? It is a multi-discipline department. I'm sure if you look through the faculty, you could find someone close to what you're looking for and then contact that person for further information. Here is their link: http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/
 
Thank you! I'm not sure quite what I'm looking for yet, to be honest. I'm just having that existential senior year crisis of, what do I actually want to study, out there in the real world (if grad school can be counted as the real world, heh)? I guess my interest in this area comes from a few interesting books or articles I've read. I've had very little time to look in-depth at the subject, but fortunately there is an undergrad psych seminar on consciousness next semester, which I'll definitely take.

I guess I find the subject interesting because it's a combination of the greatest possible material reductionism (cellular, even quantum mechanics) with this sort of ephemeral, philosophical holism.

My advisors and teachers have occasionally accused me of 'trying to go beyond the reasonable scope' of whatever I'm studying...theorizing and drawing too many conclusions based on what I'm reading or writing about. As one of them put it, "stop trying to turn everything you read into a Theory of Everything. This is a study about acetylcholine production in rats. It doesn't generalize very far." 🙄
So perhaps I'd be better off in a subject that encourages random and wild theorizing. 🙂

Edit: Oh my gosh! David Chalmers is affiliated with the university of Arizona program? Sweet! I'm not quite sure what the program is, though. It looks like a lot of faculty from various universities, but it doesn't seem to be an actual grad program itself, more of an association. Perhaps some of the faculty are doing research at their own universities, though.
 
Edit: Oh my gosh! David Chalmers is affiliated with the university of Arizona program? Sweet! I'm not quite sure what the program is, though. It looks like a lot of faculty from various universities, but it doesn't seem to be an actual grad program itself, more of an association. Perhaps some of the faculty are doing research at their own universities, though.

True. But at least it is a place where research is being done and where you can find some guidance. I may be wrong, but I'm not aware of any graduate programs in consciousness studies per se. My advice is to find people that study and research in the field and assertively e-mail/contact as many people as you can to find out how to do what you're interested in. There are many roads to that path and consciousness studies can be approached from multiple angles. As you posted this on the Clinical Psychology forum (and to keep this relevant to this forum), I do know that some of the researchers at U of A have a background in clinical psychology. Obviously, as you suggested, a degree in neuroscience or cognitive science would be a good background. As I'm partial to clinical work, I say go with clinical psychology or psychiatry at get trained at a university that has people interested in consciousness 😉.
 
Dave Chalmers is not associated with the University of Arizona Philosophy Program anymore (though he used to be part time between University of Arizona and Australian National University). Now he has a 'Centre for Consciousness' (an australian federation fellowship) at the Australian national University.
http://philrsss.anu.edu.au/people-defaults/chalmers/index.php3

So, people who want to do PhD's in philosophy can indeed study philosophy with Dave Chalmers (and indeed there are other philosophers around the world who study consciousness and take on graduate students in philosophy of mind who are interested in studying consciousness). There are a number of academics and graduate students who visit the program.

Here is his homepage: http://consc.net/chalmers/
Here is his centre: http://consciousness.anu.edu.au/

He has an extensive online presence (see for example): http://fragments.consc.net/
And is known for replying to emails at all hours.
He has recently been working (or getting other people working) on compiling an online website of philosophy of mind papers: http://consc.net/mindpapers/

Rumour has it that he has an offer from either NY state or Rutgers (check Leiter's report for goss) though I can't remember which (probably both though officially one or the other but not both). Though he has just brought a house in Australia - which indicates that he may well stay (whether his federation fellowship gets renewal or not).

The federation fellowship funds the Centre for Consciousness. If you want to apply for a post-doctoral fellowship position then you better study up on philosophy of mind!
 
Yes, thank you!


If I go the philosophy program route with neuroscience as an adjunct area, I'll definitely have to study up on philosophy of mind. I've really concentrated on psych, so I've only taken two very intro philosophy courses. I wouldn't know a post-modernist from a neo-deconstructivist, I'm afraid!
 
Okay so...

Dave Chalmers got a Rhodes Scholarship to study Mathematics at Oxford. While he was there he figured that he was into consciousness more than math so he ditched Oxford and managed to gain entry into a PhD philosophy program in the US. (Mostly because he didn't want to study consciousness at stuffy old Oxford).

Consciousness... Is the subject matter of philosophy. If you really are interested in consciousness then you might be able to gain entry to a PhD program in Philosophy - it happens. It happened with Dave Chalmers, and it has happened with others too - but you need to be sure that that is what you really want.

Have you read Dave Chalmers book: http://consc.net/book/tcm.html
If you haven't - then you should. To check that that is what you want to do. An important note is that: Dave has a background in MATH which means you probably want to learn PHILOSOPHICAL LOGIC in order to understand the finer points of what he is saying. Basically... Think of the contents of consciousness as being like the contents (meaning) of language. And then think of capturing all that in an abstract language of propositions (rather like Chomskey's superrules of grammer) with a heavy leaning towards Frege and Russel (thats history of philosophy). If that sounds appealling: Go for it.

There are other philosophers of mind working on consciousness, too. E.g., John Searle, Pat and Paul Churchland, Daniel Dennett, Ned Block, John Searle (all in the US if you wanted to stay there).

Basically: If you want to study consciousness then welcome to philosophy. And if you want to pick where to go then I'd reccomend you take this seriously:

http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/breakdown/breakdown2.asp

If you want to know why the rankings are the way they are then check out the people interested in consciousness at those ranked institutions.

Good luck!
 
> I wouldn't know a post-modernist from a neo-deconstructivist, I'm afraid!

And I assure you you will never ever need to!
 
Thank you once again for the info. I really don't know if I'm cut out to be a philosophy major...especially when the field is combined with mathematics. Theorists like Chalmers are fascinating to read, but I'm hoping to look at the neuroscience underlying conscious experience. Abstract mathematical processes are definitely not my strong suit. I realize that to really study the subject, I'll have to become more comfortable with "pure mathematics", but since my primary area of study so far has been neuroscience (well, if you can call three undergrad seminars an 'area of study', ha), I think it would be great to approach it from that perspective. It just seems like it's a frontier that a lot of faculty at my school don't even care about. One professor said that neuroscience really has very little to say about the origins of consciousness, and only at the most elementary level. But isn't that kind of the point of studying it?

Of course, I'm probably getting way ahead of myself. I certainly don't have the knowledge base in any subject to say anything useful about consciousness yet. I suppose ideally, I would need a PhD in neuroscience as well as philosophy. Again, to really approach the subject you need such a vast knowledge base in diverse areas that it's hard to know where to start.

edit: and I will definitely check out the Chalmers book. I have only come across him mentioned in other books, or summarized in a magazine article here or there. I haven't had the chance to go straight to the source, so to speak. I'm still struggling my way through, 'The Elegant Universe', to be honest (different area, I know, but I still find it a little depressing that I have trouble comprehending a physics book specifically written without any mathematical physics in it!). However, I'm taking a course in formal logic next semester, as well as a seminar through the psych department in consciousness, which I was excited to see. It'll be interesting to see how they organize the course.
 
Philosophy of Neuroscience is a slightly different thing again.

Philosophy of Mind
Cognitive Science
Philosophy of Neuroscience

Important distinctions... The Churchland's might be more your cup of tea (check out California, San Diego - though be warned Pat is known as the mastermind of the team and I think she has retired already and Paul is close to).

Though worth reading their work, indeed.

Eccles... Or some varient on the name... Some neuroscience that turned to writing philosophy in his retirement...

Because of Dave's background in math he is less afraid of considering future science than most. In particular... He is a dualist (not to be mistaken for Descartes). The idea is that phenomenal properties lie at a level that is comperable to mass and charge and spin in current physics. This is in contrast with the standard materialist line that maintains that phenomenal properties can be deduced from physical properties. Dave maintains that while phenomenal properties are at a level comperable to these physical properties (and hence cannot be deduced by them) future science might posit properties that entail both physical properties like mass and spin and charge and phenomenal properties like redness or a certain smell or a certain seems.

You might also be interested in philosophy of physics (different interpretations of quantum mechanics, in particular). What collapses the wave function? Why, wouldn't it be nice if that was what brains did? Wouldn't it be nice indeed...

And consciousness can be reduced to psychology
And psychology can be reduced to biology
And biology can be reduced to chemistry
And chemistry can be reduced to physics
And physics requires an observer
Which brings us back to mind

LMAO!!!!
 
I'm sorry - we are kind of cross-posting. There isn't any math in Dave's book. (Hell, I study consciousness and I can't do math to save myself). Dave does a variety of work, though. And some of it is fairly technical - though some of it isn't. I'd consider 'The consicous mind' to be fairly non-technical - though please don't take that to mean that it is an easy read.

Not all philosophers have a background in math (I don't, for example). I avoid logic like the plague and as a consequence I avoid philosophy of language like the plague too.

That creates trouble for me because the idea is that language and thought and the world share a common structure that is captured in logic. But it doesn't really matter... You pick it up along the way (or not).

There is a program at Uni Wash. St Louis that does Philosophy, Psychology, and Neuroscience. That might be your cup of tea. Stuff that Carl Cravers is doing is really quite interesting (though it is about scientific modelling / scientific reasoning rather than consciousness per se).

There is an extensive literature in the philosophy of mind about consicousness. Most of it isn't mathematical at all.

Michel Tye is a lovely read.

As is John Searle.

Everybody needs a hobby ;-)
 
heh, sounds like I should just apply to study with you...is this your area of interest?

I suppose I had ought to wait until I at least take the consciousness seminar before I commit my life to the field. My interest in the area comes from two books on neuroplasticity, the 'Are We Living In A Computer Simulation' treatise, a Discovery channel special on the origins of consciousness, and half of 'The Elegant Universe.'

To be honest, I'm not sure if I have the intellectual capability to contribute meaningfully to this field. I'm not a polymath by any stretch. In fact I'm pretty much a nonmath, once you get past high school algebra, ha. I struggled with physics in high school. I've done very well in my neuroscience classes, but there is a difference between acing a test and adding something original to the field. It's good to know that you pick up what you need to know of the math and logic along the way, though.

In any case, I appreciate your advice...I guess the first step would be for me to actually start reading more in the field instead of talking about how theoretically interesting it is without knowing what the hell I'm talking about! I'm just at that point where graduation is imminent enough that I have to choose an area of interest. I hate to just do it arbitrarily, but I kind of need to grasp at random straws since my courses have all been fairly general-level, and I'm sure no one at my school is researching anything I'm especially interested in.

I guess I'm too high-minded, but I can't get excited about devoting my career to studying postpartum hormone changes in albino prairie voles, or whatever. And prairie voles seem to be hot stuff in the neuroscience dept. at my school.
 
Add Tim Shafer, U... Ohio, I think, philo dept., to that list too. 🙂
 
I'm just a meagre grad student... Philosophy of Mind was my main area of interest (consciousness and the contents of consciousness) but then I got intersted in Philosophy of Psychology / Philosophy of Cognitive Psychology. And now I've branched out into a fairly specialist field (that not many people are working on) - Philosophy of Psychiatry / Philosophy of Psychopathology. But it is all connected at the end of the day (though I'm told to try and think linearly anyway) lol.

I'd say more, but my anonymity is important to me.

> 'Are We Living In A Computer Simulation' treatise

Is that the paper where the guy argues that it is more likely than not that we are living in a computer simulation? That is a great paper. Clearly something is wrong with it, but bonus marks to the guy that figures out where it goes wrong. Dave Chalmers paper on 'The Matrix as Metaphysics' is kinda related.

I'm serious about his emailing, though. He is a bit of a superstar in philosophy, but he is also one hell of a nice guy who likes to procrastinate by internet same as everyone else!

> To be honest, I'm not sure if I have the intellectual capability to contribute meaningfully to this field.

Consciousness is certainly an issue that has inspired a serious literature. To tell you the honest truth, that is why I'm drawn to philosophy of psychiaty: There is not much in the way of literature so it is a field that I can call my own without worrying about geniuses like Chalmers etc having said anything about it...

I dropped math early. I'm sorry - I probably shouldn't have said what I did about math. I was terrified of first year logic and the blurb that went 'no particular mathematical aptitude is required'. But basically I worked my ass off and did GREAT. Because it is kind of like learning math from the very beginning but this time you are motivated to learn. I still can't do math (can't answer a single GRE math question in under 30 seconds) but I can handle logic alright. And... I can even handle philosophy of math (probability theory) alright - without being able to count etc. So please - don't let logic put you off math. I never did any physics whatsoever but that doesn't stop me understanding the conceptual problems with interpretations of quantum mechanics, either. The actual problem isn't so hard to understand (the two slit experiment) and that is about all you need to know for a good working knowelege of the problem.

There are different things that one does in a philosophy thesis:
- Develop a new position (hard when there is an extensive lit. before you)
- Synthesise old positions (show that they aren't really mutually exclusive after all)
- Clarify a debate (similar to the above - basically try and stop scientists arguing about something when they are both right or both partially right etc)

If I were you... I really would check out the program at U Wash St Louis. Mostly because of there Philosophy, Psychology, and Neuroscience program. Only two places in the world offer that: There and Oxford (and Oxford is stuffy). An advantage would be that there is a neuroscience program (if you decide that that is really what you are interested in) but you would be able to sit in on and benefit from the other fields so see what grabs you. There really aren't many people in the world who know a great deal about neuroscience AND about philosophy so that kind of interdisciplinary program would prepare you well for saying something that is both informed (hence possibly true) and novel as well.
 
PS - and they are a private school that is well funded (cha ching)
AND they have a great medical school if you wanted to try and associate yourself with medical research (cha ching ching)

;-)
 
Toby Jones,

Why no mention of Douglas Hofstadter in this discussion?

Also, interesting how U.S. Philosophy (well, some of it) is still ignoring Continental Philosophy as if it does not exist. How can U.S. Philosophers discuss consiousness when they are not even conscious of what is going on around them?

In addition, from the other persepctive, what would Gilbert Ryle think of this Thread? He might say, "bringing back the ghost in the machine - INDEED! Now this issue is alive again and I am dead. How ironic."
 
PS - and they are a private school that is well funded (cha ching)
AND they have a great medical school if you wanted to try and associate yourself with medical research (cha ching ching)

;-)


You are a wealth of useful information 🙂 . I will definitely check out the programs you mentioned. One thing I'm puzzling over is how to incorporate this interest into my senior thesis. I had what I think could have been an interesting thesis involving stereotype threat and schizophrenia, but unfortunately the hospital I was interested in working with really did not have the time to devote to helping me get the study underway, and I had to abandon the project, setting my thesis back at least one semester. The idea was my own, no one at my school is researching sz, but I found an advisor who was willing to work with me, and would probably advise me on any other topic I chose. I really don't know what to do for my thesis instead, though. I honestly would rather not just analyze some stats for one of the professors here and call it a thesis, as many students do. It would be different if anyone was researching something I really wanted to study, but I can't find any faculty who are both accepting students and have interests that interest me. As a last resort, I could find someone, but I'd rather come up with an original thesis. I believe my school requires that it be research-based, so I can't just do an extended lit review. I have to either analyze an existing data set or create my own experiment. I'd prefer the latter, but I've been having an absolute creative block thinking of some fascinating and earth-shaking experimental design (or at least you know, something not totally embarrassing) that I could create with a nil budget and a research pool of psych undergrads. If I want to graduate one semester behind schedule rather than two, I need a thesis idea and a proposal in the next two months, meaning for the next two months I will come up with absolutely nothing. How do you study consciousness using the ubiquitous psych undergrad/self report measure combination that is the mainstay of undergrad research? Augh, albino prairie voles it is.

And I would love to email David Chalmers. I'll wait until I have something moderately intelligent to say, though, beyond 'your book is pretty cool'.

Also off-topic and regarding physics, it seems that the observer effect, collapse of wave function, the two slit experiment, Shrodinger's cat have all suffused completely into popular culture, and are just about universally known. Which is how I came to vaguely understand them. I think I saw a review of some horrific sounding self-help book that uses mangled versions of these concepts as the basis for a self-help book, citing them as evidence that we create our own reality and have the power to shape our own destiny. We just have to unlock the secret of manipulating wave-function collapse into the 10^1539398489 possibility that we can alter the very fabric of matter to dictate whether we get that promotion! 🙄
 
As an alternative view on consciousness that is higly critical of philosophers such as Churchland, I highly recommend reading Allan Wallaces' That Taboo of Subjectivity. http://www.amazon.com/Taboo-Subject...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195668707&sr=8-1

Don't let his background in Buddhism through you off! The book is very well thought out and avoids what is, IMHO, a philosphophical tail spin that a lot of philosophers (not all!) fall into. Here is a link to Alan Wallace's institute: http://www.sbinstitute.com/
 
I really feel compelled to post this. 🙂

http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/chomsky-on-postmodernism.html

Noam Chomsky writing about the state of modern philosophy, in particular post-modernism. Reading this was a delight for me--I had all the same ideas in some nebulous mis-mash in my head, and this expressed pretty much what I was thinking, solidly and concisely. I took a few philosophy electives, really just for "fun," and I wasn't terribly impressed by profs or students. Philosophers used to be scientists who commented about the nature of things based on their own actual research and work. It seems to me as though most philo students and academicians are content to sit in a room and write convoluted papers that don't express anything new, based on things other people did, and without any knowledge or expertise in the area they're commenting on. Just my view 🙂

Oh, and I guess I mentioned Tim Schafer because he seems to be at least somewhat of an exception to that.
 
There are indeed *lots* of people who are doing really very good work on consciousness who I haven't mentioned in the discussion.

Chalmers has compiled a whole bunch of papers in the philosophy and science of consciousness that are all available online. All 4895 of them - and who knows how many authors. Apparently one of the criteria was that people be writing on the *philosophy* of consciousness, though, so there are still a whole bunch of science papers that didn't make it into the list.

http://consc.net/online

With respect to analytic philosophers ignoring continental philosophers... Er... You might think of them as two distinct fields of study with different aims, different research methodologies, different literatures etc. The division isn't as great as it once was, but there still is a bit of a divide really. I didn't mention continental philosophy (more politically correctly referred to as 'history of ideas') because... I don't really know anything about it. I've never read Heidigger or Hegel or Sartre or Neitztche or Foucault.

See... My version of the history of philosophy goes a little like this (somewhat faceiously) 'In the beginning there was David Lewis'... Though I could perhaps extend back to Frege and Russell ,and suppose I could say the odd sensible thing about Plato and Aristotle and Locke and Berkely and Hume and Descartes.

If you are interested in a science of consciousness then you probably do want to look to analytic philosophy, however. In particular: Analytic philosophy of mind / science / psychology. The difference would be like... Doing philosophy of physics with respect to giving physicists and philosophers a hand with understanding how we should interpret current experimental results. Or doing philosophy of physics with respect to learning about what the Ancients or Alchemists had to say. There are lessons in there to be sure, but it is kind of a different topic.

> It seems to me as though most philo students and academicians are content to sit in a room and write convoluted papers that don't express anything new, based on things other people did, and without any knowledge or expertise in the area they're commenting on.

I think (though don't quote me on this) that this is probably a fair summary of what a lot of philosophers are up to. That being said, philosophers show more or less willingness to engage with scientific literature and take some of those findings seriously.

A book you might find really very interesting is the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Brain-Neuroplasticity-Power-Mental/dp/0060988479

He is a psychiatrist and he writes about neuroplasticity findings... And mindfulness meditation... For treating OCD. He also has a really nice explanation of the two slit experiment and he places free will (mental force) as the collapse of the wave function in the brain. Controversial to be sure, and not the tightest philosophically. But a very good read.

Maybe... You would be interested in cognitive neuropsychology / cognitive neuropsychiatry?

http://www.fil.ion.ucl.ac.uk/Frith/
http://www.maccs.mq.edu.au/members/profile.htm?memberID=53
http://www.austmus.gov.au/eureka/index.cfm?objectid=B8570D2A-B0BC-03E7-1A88C67AC0484BBB

I don't do experiments so I can't really help you there. Might be worth looking into those programs for PhD, though. I know the MACs lab is well funded (international students accepted on full scholarship - fees and a living stipend). There are probably places in the US too, but I'm not as familiar with those...
 
Ah, good-- reading material for winter break!

Actually, that book on neuroplasticity and OCD is the one that got me interested in the subject in the first place-- really interesting. And of course all of Oliver Sacks' books are basically monuments to the power of adult neuroplasticity and adaptation. That's another area I find fascinating...truly, the volitional mind changing the brain. And yet it only has so much power-- organic brain damage can cause irrevocable motor and personality changes. In contrast, the brain reorganization produced by psychotherapy is meager...but one wonders what would be possible if we were able to identify and develop our own volitional power to shape our physical being through the medium of thought and reactions to our environment.

Obviously, the identification and control of 'volition' or 'mind' or whatever you want to call it would catalyze the greatest leap in evolution imaginable. Discovery of the substrate of the observer as well as the observed, as it were. At the moment we're probably just doing the equivalent of boiling water with our minds when we could eventually be...er, my nice metaphor dies here because I can't think of the name of a device that heats stuff to a really insanely high degree. But one of those.
 
I really feel compelled to post this. 🙂

http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/chomsky-on-postmodernism.html

Noam Chomsky writing about the state of modern philosophy, in particular post-modernism. Reading this was a delight for me--I had all the same ideas in some nebulous mis-mash in my head, and this expressed pretty much what I was thinking, solidly and concisely. I took a few philosophy electives, really just for "fun," and I wasn't terribly impressed by profs or students. Philosophers used to be scientists who commented about the nature of things based on their own actual research and work. It seems to me as though most philo students and academicians are content to sit in a room and write convoluted papers that don't express anything new, based on things other people did, and without any knowledge or expertise in the area they're commenting on. Just my view 🙂

Oh, and I guess I mentioned Tim Schafer because he seems to be at least somewhat of an exception to that.

I have been meaning to post of this for some time but have not had the time.

First, I would be quite skeptical of any views Chomsky espouses since he himself is guilty of the very charges you/ he bring against philosophers. You wrote: "It seems to me as though most philo students and academicians are content to sit in a room and write convoluted papers that don't express anything new, based on things other people did, and without any knowledge or expertise in the area they're commenting on." Basically, Chomsky has spent his entire life engaged in this very activity. He became famous for language theories on which he never actually did any original experiemnts himself and moved on to write leftist political theory. He has no "expertise" on any of the political topics he has written on through the years. In fact, lately, he has become the poster boy for terrorist websites. A couple of years ago there was a report that he had died. As he himself wrote to the NYTimes, it was wrong, he is still kicking, but it was too bad it was wrong! Well, enough ad hominem attacks.

Since philosophers by the very nature question, it stands to reason that they have already given many answers to the criticisms and questions you (and Chomsky - although I think Chomksy is mainly complaining about certain very contemporary movements) raise but, unfortunately, to which you were never given appropriate answers. Especially, not from the Philosophy professors and students you worte that you met. And so, I post for you, part of Bertrand Russell's wonderfully written answer to your criticism/ questioning of philosophy (from "The Value of Philosophy" in his book The Problems of Philosophy) in the hope that you and others might delve more into Philosophy before categorically dismissing it. Russell (sorry Sir Russell) wrote:

"The value of philosophy is, in fact, to be sought largely in its very
uncertainty. The man who has no tincture of philosophy goes through
life imprisoned in the prejudices derived from common sense, from the
habitual beliefs of his age or his nation, and from convictions which
have grown up in his mind without the co-operation or consent of his
deliberate reason. To such a man the world tends to become definite,
finite, obvious; common objects rouse no questions, and unfamiliar
possibilities are contemptuously rejected. As soon as we begin to
philosophize, on the contrary, we find, as we saw in our opening
chapters, that even the most everyday things lead to problems to which
only very incomplete answers can be given. Philosophy, though unable
to tell us with certainty what is the true answer to the doubts which
it raises, is able to suggest many possibilities which enlarge our
thoughts and free them from the tyranny of custom. Thus, while
diminishing our feeling of certainty as to what things are, it greatly
increases our knowledge as to what they may be; it removes the
somewhat arrogant dogmatism of those who have never travelled into the
region of liberating doubt, and it keeps alive our sense of wonder by
showing familiar things in an unfamiliar aspect."

"Thus, to sum up our discussion of the value of philosophy; Philosophy
is to be studied, not for the sake of any definite answers to its
questions, since no definite answers can, as a rule, be known to be
true, but rather for the sake of the questions themselves; because
these questions enlarge our conception of what is possible, enrich our
intellectual imagination and diminish the dogmatic assurance which
closes the mind against speculation; but above all because, through
the greatness of the universe which philosophy contemplates, the mind
also is rendered great, and becomes capable of that union with the
universe which constitutes its highest good."
 
Here's why I think you're mistaken:

I have been meaning to post of this for some time but have not had the time.

First, I would be quite skeptical of any views Chomsky espouses since he himself is guilty of the very charges you/ he bring against philosophers. You wrote: "It seems to me as though most philo students and academicians are content to sit in a room and write convoluted papers that don't express anything new, based on things other people did, and without any knowledge or expertise in the area they're commenting on." Basically, Chomsky has spent his entire life engaged in this very activity. He became famous for language theories on which he never actually did any original experiemnts himself and moved on to write leftist political theory. He has no "expertise" on any of the political topics he has written on through the years.

This is incorrect, and confuses formal training with expertise. Chomsky's degree is in linguistics, but he has decades of experience in political activism. He didn't transition toward "leftist" political theory but rather was involved in it since young adulthood, through his graduate education, and during his early time in academia before he wrote Manufacturing Consent. Chomsky's knowledge of politics, foreign affairs, government, and policy far, far outstrips that of most of his contemporaries. You can watch any of a dozen interviews with him to see him tear his competition to shreds. One good example (I'll post the youtube link when I can find it; youtube is running poorly for me tonight) has Chomsky with an interviewer who doesn't even know what COINTELPRO was. The argument here, as I perceive it, is that Chomsky's thoughts on politics don't matter because he doesn't have a polisci degree. That argument simply doesn't hold water.

As this pertains to philosophers, I would have no issues with modern philosophy if the people writing it were as well-versed in the subject matter as Chomsky is in his. They aren't. This has been demonstrated numerous times; the Sokal affair and Sokal & Bricmont's book Fashionable Nonsense are good starting places to look into this.

In fact, lately, he has become the poster boy for terrorist websites. A couple of years ago there was a report that he had died. As he himself wrote to the NYTimes, it was wrong, he is still kicking, but it was too bad it was wrong! Well, enough ad hominem attacks.

You correctly call this an ad hominem attack. The appropriate thing to do, when recognizing this, is not make the statement at all. The modern thing to do is make the attack to get the emotional and cognitive impact, then immediately recant (seemingly undoing the use of the fallacy, but not its impact). Wishing death upon someone for disagreeing with you is particularly distasteful.

Since philosophers by the very nature question, it stands to reason that they have already given many answers to the criticisms and questions you (and Chomsky - although I think Chomksy is mainly complaining about certain very contemporary movements) raise but, unfortunately, to which you were never given appropriate answers. Especially, not from the Philosophy professors and students you worte that you met. [and a quote]

I think you misunderstand the point I was getting at, and the point Chomsky makes. It isn't that philosophy is worthless; neither I nor Chomsky in that essay argue that. The argument, rather, is that (a) modern work doesn't meet anything resembling the better philosophy of times past, and (b) the intellectual culture surrounding the practice of modern philosophy is flawed. Both of these deal with contemporary movements, and I'm not sure how it was apparent to you that I was writing about anything else; I'm certainly not saying that philosophy in general is useless. And, as Chomsky points out, the fact is that answers having to do with modern philosophy's importance haven't been given at all; po-mo papers remain meandering, convoluted, meaningless, indecipherable wrecks.
 
Does anyone know of programs/faculty researching consciousness? The area is kind of neuroscience and philosophy combined (and probably physics if you can handle it, but I'm woefully untalented in that area), but I'd prefer a neuroscience program if possible. I know there are many philosophy programs in consciousness studies but I'm looking for a neuroscience based program interested in the subject. I know this topic is becoming increasingly popular, and neuroscience is moving away from strict determinism, and maybe even willing to look beyond epiphenomenalism, but I'm not sure quite where to look. Thanks!

Hi Chaos,
I think you and I have similar interests. I'm applying to MD/PhD programs in neuroscience right now, and my hobby is philosophy of mind... though my research interest is in schizophrenia. As for consciousness, I think that you're not going to be able to find a neuroscience program that involves "consciousness" as it is currently understood in analytic philosophy...

In the language of neuroscience, consciousness usually means something observable, like reportability or something, whereas in philosophy it usually has to do with the subjective experience of being in a particular state... They're very different things.

Actually, I think that the question "can consciousness be studied via neuroscience" is an incredibly loaded philosophical question to begin with... Mysteriously David Chalmers thinks that it can be, despite the fact the in his account consciousness probably doesn't have any causal impact on the physical world at all. His idea is that we just assume that the people who claim to be conscious really are conscious, and that their experiences are appropriately similar to our experiences, and then we go through the tedious process of corresponding those verbal reports to objective neuroscientific data. Sounds interesting, but not what I want to work on.

Overall, I agree with Toby. If you want to study this kind of thing, it's probably best to forget about the psychology and switch to philosophy. Well, I'm content with it just being a hobby...
 
(a) modern work doesn't meet anything resembling the better philosophy of times past, and (b) the intellectual culture surrounding the practice of modern philosophy is flawed.

I would have no issues with modern philosophy if the people writing it were as well-versed in the subject matter as Chomsky is in his. They aren't. This has been demonstrated numerous times; the Sokal affair and Sokal & Bricmont's book Fashionable Nonsense are good starting places to look into this.

Hi JockNerd,
I think that you are confusing two very different things here. The sokal affair had to do with some post-modernist continental stuff, which as Toby pointed out, is not exactly what we call "philosophy"... it's some kind of social-historical stuff, something that we would put in an English, rather than a philosophy department.

Also, I think that you're way off in your assessment that modern philosophy is not as good as ancient philosophy... What we call "analytic philosophy", which is pretty much the topic at hand here, didn't even begin until Frege and Russell in the late 1800s/early 1900s. It's in a completely different league than everything that preceded it. Analytic philosophy began with philosophical foundations of mathematics, set theory, and axiomatic systems. It's not a topic that people are just making stuff up in that can't be supported...

When it comes to that continental stuff, though, all I can say is that it uses too many big words for me to understand, so I guess I should keep quiet.
 
Evan Harris Walker (recently died) wrote an interesting book called The Physics of Consciousness. Although his vignettes are pointless his research and theories are pretty fascinating taking you from chemistry to quantum physics. Another book I'd recommend is Stairway to the Mind by Alwynn Scott. Also, the school that I'm attending right now, Yeshiva, has a neuropsych program openin up next year and one of my prof, Dr. Ross Levin, is interested in consciousness and currently doin some consciousness/sleep related studies. gluck findin what your lookin for.
 
There's a book that's kind of about the intersection of consciousness and psychopathology called "the mind and brain". It's written by a psychiatrist about his experience using psychotherapy to treat OCD.

His overall point is philosophically a bit cloudy... I think he's supporting some kind of interactionist dualism. I think it's pretty indefensible, to be honest, but it's still an interesting book with psychological overtones.
 
Not a viable place for formal education, but a curious off-shoot of your original request Chaos.

I gleaned this name from a fascinating program that aired on NPR as I recall last week. B. Allen Wallace, Ph.D., is a Buddhist practitioner who resided in a Tibetan monastery for some 15 years practicing meditation and theoretical contemplation of the philosophy.

He is the president of the Santa Barbara Institute for Consciousness Studies and primary investigator of one of several projects. As I recall the institution consists of a team of cognitive and affective neuroscientists who are examing the neural correlates of the mystical, religious, and meditative experience.

You can find more information at www.sbinstitute.com.

I commend you on your work; consciousness is a tricky thing.

Good Luck.🙂
 
Not a viable place for formal education, but a curious off-shoot of your original request Chaos.

I gleaned this name from a fascinating program that aired on NPR as I recall last week. B. Allen Wallace, Ph.D., is a Buddhist practitioner who resided in a Tibetan monastery for some 15 years practicing meditation and theoretical contemplation of the philosophy.

He is the president of the Santa Barbara Institute for Consciousness Studies and primary investigator of one of several projects. As I recall the institution consists of a team of cognitive and affective neuroscientists who are examing the neural correlates of the mystical, religious, and meditative experience.

You can find more information at www.sbinstitute.com.

I commend you on your work; consciousness is a tricky thing.

Good Luck.🙂
Yeah I agree. This man is also a great speaker. Theres a few videos of his speeches on youtube i think.
 
There has been a lot of talk about the more phenomenological and philosophical consciousness studies places, but there are also departments taking more scientific approaches to consciousness. An important one is Case Western Reserve's program run by Merlin Donald. (http://www.case.edu/artsci/cogs/donald.html) Donald was one of McCluhan's students, and he is putting together a department which seeks to study how the mind is embedded in symbolic networks, and works as a location for networked information, as well as initiates in it. Really interesting stuff.

Also, a lot of people working in stuff relevant to consciousness are working in artificial intelligence. Marvin Minsky's lab at MIT (http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/) is a papal magnet for this field.

Just a quick note on math: I'm sure you're not as bad as math as you think, and the truth is, to do a scienec of consciousness is simply going to require mathematical modeling. If you don't want to do math, you may not want to do science. But be aware, the math becomes a lot more intersesting when you're using it to describe things you find interesting, instead of just running differentials for no reason.

However, if you really want to understand consciousness from a non-math/non-science approach, then there are a lot of clinical psychology programs for you. Look at Duquesne University's phenomenological psychology program, or the Transpersonal Psychology schools, or Pacifica Graduate School in California - these are all schools that approach consciousness from a more experience near perspective, and don't use math.

-Dan
 
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