Considering pharmacy

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Westside4life

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I had written what was a fairly detailed piece of prose and then when I went to post found out that the board had signed me out on its own and of course did not save what I had typed. I don't really have the energy to type it all again and couldn't remember what I had typed exactly even if I did. Here are the basics:

-I have begun to think about maybe going to pharmacy school over the last few months

-I have currently been accepted to several law schools in the SE but sticker shock vs. opportunities post 2013 have me reconsidering

-I scored in the 160s on the LSAT

-My UGPA was roughly 2.75

-Was not a science major in college and would have to take roughly 40-50 hrs of all bio/chem classes in order to meet pre-requisities

-View the advantages of pharma over law as more choice in where I'd get to work and live (as law school basically sets where you live unless you got into T14) and more perceived slots in the field than law

-View the main disadvantage as having exhausted my federal student loan ability for undergraduate vis a vis having to retake prerequisites.



Basically, I'm looking for people who can tell me about the process and about the PCAT (and whether I should attempt a trial run on that June test now that I see it up) and if its worth even considering ditching law school for to pursue.


I had also included a notice saying that I had read this site before, have noticed that some people have made what I view to be elitest comments, my disapproval of those comments and a notice that anyone who is just going to come and tell me to forget about pharma and stay in law out of their own self-interest of "lowering the competition numbers" shouldn't even bother responding to this (as well as anyone else who would comment with a non-positive attitude)


So basically, any feedback with a positive attitude I welcome as this would be a big life decision for me and I am trying to decide if its even worth pursuing.
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Please read the stickies at the top of the forum first. You can also use the search function. I believe there has already been a (brief) discussion about law vs pharmacy recently in the Pharmacy forum. Please utilize these resources and then come back with specific questions regarding your situation.
 
Westside4life said:
I had written what was a fairly detailed piece of prose and then when I went to post found out that the board had signed me out on its own and of course did not save what I had typed. I don't really have the energy to type it all again and couldn't remember what I had typed exactly even if I did. Here are the basics:

-I have begun to think about maybe going to pharmacy school over the last few months

-I have currently been accepted to several law schools in the SE but sticker shock vs. opportunities post 2013 have me reconsidering

-I scored in the 160s on the LSAT

-My UGPA was roughly 2.75

-Was not a science major in college and would have to take roughly 40-50 hrs of all bio/chem classes in order to meet pre-requisities

-View the advantages of pharma over law as more choice in where I'd get to work and live (as law school basically sets where you live unless you got into T14) and more perceived slots in the field than law

-View the main disadvantage as having exhausted my federal student loan ability for undergraduate vis a vis having to retake prerequisites.



Basically, I'm looking for people who can tell me about the process and about the PCAT (and whether I should attempt a trial run on that June test now that I see it up) and if its worth even considering ditching law school for to pursue.


I had also included a notice saying that I had read this site before, have noticed that some people have made what I view to be elitest comments, my disapproval of those comments and a notice that anyone who is just going to come and tell me to forget about pharma and stay in law out of their own self-interest of "lowering the competition numbers" shouldn't even bother responding to this (as well as anyone else who would comment with a non-positive attitude)


So basically, any feedback with a positive attitude I welcome as this would be a big life decision for me and I am trying to decide if its even worth pursuing.
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I'd say pharmacy definitely beats law school. I just replied to a thread recently about law. The benefits of a law degree are few and will remain so in the near future, and the cost of law school is very high specifically in proportion to the benefits. You'll see a lot of whiney people on here who are fearful or even suggting that pharmacy is a dying profession when it isn't. To think it is would be stupid. However, in the next decade I could see it becoming what law school is now.

Law is a profession that deals with ideas and words. Pharmacy isn't. Pharmacy is more scientific, however, I suspect that once one enters the workplace it's more methodical than anything else particularly in the retail environment.

The rest is up to you. Hang around the forums for a few weeks and your questions should be answered. I'm new to the idea of going to pharmacy school as well but am only interested in it enough to go to one school and if not there then no where. You'll need to work with or shadow pharmacists to see what they do exactly. Use that. I don't want to do it quite frankly, and haven't yet, but I will in the future. If you started this summer you could probably finish all your prereqs, since you have a degree already, within a 14 month period or so assuming you're on a semester system. This includes summer 2010, fall 2010, spring 2011, summer 2011.
 
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Just curious, but how "in the 160s" was your LSAT? I ask because 160 is also in the 160s.

I echo what my intellectual doppelganger, Arkansas, had to say.
 
I recommend shadowing some pharmacists. At least one retail and one hospital. Get an idea of what the work is like. If you like it, well there you go.

It seems to me there are more opportunities for pharmacists that for lawyers, although I will admit to some bias here. Will it be the same in 5-6 years? I like to think so. :)

I can't imagine deciding between law and pharmacy, they seem very different to me. It may seem cliché but I recommend doing what you think you will enjoy for the rest of your life. If you love them equal (or money is your only concern between the two) I would recommend pharmacy, again I will admit to a small amount of bias on this.

If we are ever competing for the only job left on the east coast (in a cage match to the death, I assume) then I expect you to take a dive. :laugh:
 
If you're doing it for the money, please stick to law. We don't need anymore people in this profession driven by (mostly) money.
 
Passion4Sci said:
With a 2.5 cGPA he won't get anywhere near a law school that'll earn him big bucks.
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That's not entirely true. I plan on living in the SE and all the schools I got in were good ones within the region. I also would concentrate on areas (like tax) that tend to have both more job availability and more money, due to the fact that no one does them because they are that boring.


Now, if I were anywhere else in the country that would be a true statement (very much so) but our pre-tertiary educational system and levels of attainment are so piss poor down here that just coming out with a marketable degree and having a few connections can help tremendously because our 6 year graduation rates remain abysmal and under half at the lions share of our schools. I would say that we might start catching up with the rest of the country in educational attainment but I know the economy will kill that. (Having said that I think our poor education system is a drain on the region and I could write a book on what I think should be done to fix it but I doubt anyone is interested in that)


As I said before though the main thing that has me interested in pharmacy besides the fact that I find pharmacology to be incredibly fascinating is mobility. If given a choice I'd choose to live here but I'd at least like the option to go live somewhere else if I all of the sudden got the urge to move to Alaska, Maine, Montana or some other far flung place. Pharmacy would give me that option. The law schools I'm in now basically keep me in the Gulf states for the rest of my life.


There is also the fact that in general I've known people in both professions and those who are pharmacists tend to be happier, less corrupt (I have to say it), tend to not have as many divorces and what not (and I grew up around divorce so that last one is a big one for me).


For me I think I might have a better quality of life as a pharmacist (and its not just money I'm speaking of here) but it would be a major departure from what I had always expected and planned for and as such it's not a decision I can just make lightly.
 
You have to decide what field you are more interested in. If it is still law, and you are in the 165-169 range, apply early next cycle. You may also try to get into 170+ range. Splitters can get alot of money.
 
Westside4life said:
There is also the fact that in general I've known people in both professions and those who are pharmacists tend to be happier, less corrupt (I have to say it), tend to not have as many divorces and what not (and I grew up around divorce so that last one is a big one for me).
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You decide how happy you are, how corrupt you are and whether or not you will get a divorce (well that last one I guess you only get a 50% vote but you get my meaning). Pharmacy vs Law will not decide whether you are happily married or not.
 
Take a semester of pre-pharmacy requirements and see how you do. If you get past the 3.3 mark and you are still passionate for pharmacy, go for it :thumbup:
 
Things to consider: Pharmacist professional is facing a crisis right now when there are no jobs available for new grads. This situation may be going to be worse in the next few years. Also, you will graduate with $100k in debt, plus you have to compete with other grads for a job.
 
I agree with those that suggest you shadow a pharmacist in various career settings. I feel that you are so far deep in your pursuit of a law degree that it may be foolish to make the switch at this point. I mean after all, you pursued law for 4 years of your undergraduate it degree, so I would expect you to have a phenomenal reason to make the switch.

The reason you need to be very sure about this career change is because its going to be another long commitment. The last thing you want to do is at the end of all your pre-requisites, you suddenly have a change of heart.

I also suggest reading the pharmacy forums and get some insight from current pharmacy students and practicing pharmacists. This site has a plethora of information that will satisfy all your inquiries. Best of luck to you! :thumbup:
 
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5minutes said:
Things to consider: Pharmacist professional is facing a crisis right now when there are no jobs available for new grads. This situation may be going to be worse in the next few years. Also, you will graduate with $100k in debt, plus you have to compete with other grads for a job.
Click to expand...


So you're basically just telling him that the pharmacy profession is on equal footing with the legal profession right now.

Law school = debt + no job + moving back in with the folks to be a substitute teacher
 
5minutes said:
Things to consider: Pharmacist professional is facing a crisis right now when there are no jobs available for new grads. This situation may be going to be worse in the next few years. Also, you will graduate with $100k in debt, plus you have to compete with other grads for a job.
Click to expand...


Whats's worse than no jobs?! :scared:
 
ArkansasRanger said:
So you're basically just telling him that the pharmacy profession is on equal footing with the legal profession right now.

Law school = debt + no job + moving back in with the folks to be a substitute teacher
Click to expand...
Yup basically what he is saying. I wonder if there is a pharmacy school equivalent to Cooley?
 
ArkansasRanger said:
So you're basically just telling him that the pharmacy profession is on equal footing with the legal profession right now.

Law school = debt + no job + moving back in with the folks to be a substitute teacher
Click to expand...

Except it kind of isn't. Graduating from HYS gives you a ~99% guarantee of at least one job offer of high caliber upon graduation. Graduating from "The top 3 pharmacy schools" (How can we even decide upon which those are ? Industry sure can't...) does not.

So for the absolute best, academically, there is a clear demarcation between law and pharm. A graduate from UCSF (Let's say, Chebs) is no more likely to get a job than someone from a "lesser ranked" pharmacy school where a graduate from HYS is 50000000% more likely to get a job upon graduation than a graduate from a Tier 2 or below law school.
 
I still say the legal profession is by far in worse condition. There is something like 40k grads a year fighting for a continually shrinking work force. It then compounds yearly. Yes, if your going to a T14 or even T20 school you will more then likely recieve a job offer within a year of graduation. Beyond that it is a crapshoot. Law schools are also popping up left and right making the problem even worse. Honestly, if you can graduate 3.88 gpa and have a 99% LSAT(the averages i believe) score you deserve Harvard.
 
UNMorBUST said:
I still say the legal profession is by far in worse condition. There is something like 40k grads a year fighting for a continually shrinking work force. It then compounds yearly. Yes, if your going to a T14 or even T20 school you will more then likely recieve a job offer within a year of graduation. Beyond that it is a crapshoot. Law schools are also popping up left and right making the problem even worse. Honestly, if you can graduate 3.88 gpa and have a 99% LSAT(the averages i believe) score you deserve Harvard.
Click to expand...

LSAT is scored out of 180 and the percentage/percentile is rarely given.

3.88 cGPA is actually kind of low for HLS, with 75th percentile being 3.72 and upper 25th at 3.95.

I agree with you that the LSAT is very demanding. Practicing that stuff with my wife when she was prepping for it was like, whoa. HLS demands 169-175, and I guess in essence that ends up being ~95% correct, although no one knows for sure how the real exam is graded.

I swear those Level 5 logic puzzles are inhuman and impossible to solve.

Regardless, at least there is the ability for the best of the best to get a job. You kind of missed my point, I think... it was that the best of the best attorneys will be teased out by where they went to school, whereas the best of the best pharmacist might not even get their internship hrs. due to a lack of strong ranking system supported by industry (or at least bought into by the people that do the hiring).

Stuff going for law: Tough exams. The LSAT and the state BAR are not "jokes" of exams, and no one going to HYS will ever say that either are. This is in stark contrast to the PCAT and the NAPLEX... which are literally laughed at by everyone I ask about them (NAPLEX, since I already took the PCAT).

In some ways, law = pharmacy, but in many other very cogent ways, they're not really in the same ballpark.
 
Passion4Sci said:
LSAT is scored out of 180 and the percentage/percentile is rarely given.

3.88 cGPA is actually kind of low for HLS, with 75th percentile being 3.72 and upper 25th at 3.95.
Click to expand...

75th percentile = upper 25th... :rolleyes:

Law school is more numbers oriented than just about any other profession. They pretty much only look at LSAT and GPA, and there's no interview. So a 2.75 won't do you any good.
 
Every profession has risks. Law is a lot riskier for you as an individual, while pharmacy is risky for the profession as a whole in the long-run. If you aren't top 15% in a tier two law school, you can kiss that $160k biglaw job goodbye.

You don't have this problem in pharmacy. Finish in the middle of your no-name PharmD class? Go work in retail and make $120k. On the other hand, retail pharmacy is hanging on a law that requires a pharmacist to be present at every pharmacy. We all know that someday retail pharmacy will be successfully automated. The profession would either evolve or go the way of mechanical watchmakers (a few elite ones at Swiss watch companies left = clinical pharmacists).
 
Westside4life said:
That's not entirely true. I plan on living in the SE and all the schools I got in were good ones within the region. I also would concentrate on areas (like tax) that tend to have both more job availability and more money, due to the fact that no one does them because they are that boring.


Now, if I were anywhere else in the country that would be a true statement (very much so) but our pre-tertiary educational system and levels of attainment are so piss poor down here that just coming out with a marketable degree and having a few connections can help tremendously because our 6 year graduation rates remain abysmal and under half at the lions share of our schools. I would say that we might start catching up with the rest of the country in educational attainment but I know the economy will kill that. (Having said that I think our poor education system is a drain on the region and I could write a book on what I think should be done to fix it but I doubt anyone is interested in that)


As I said before though the main thing that has me interested in pharmacy besides the fact that I find pharmacology to be incredibly fascinating is mobility. If given a choice I'd choose to live here but I'd at least like the option to go live somewhere else if I all of the sudden got the urge to move to Alaska, Maine, Montana or some other far flung place. Pharmacy would give me that option. The law schools I'm in now basically keep me in the Gulf states for the rest of my life.


There is also the fact that in general I've known people in both professions and those who are pharmacists tend to be happier, less corrupt (I have to say it), tend to not have as many divorces and what not (and I grew up around divorce so that last one is a big one for me).


For me I think I might have a better quality of life as a pharmacist (and its not just money I'm speaking of here) but it would be a major departure from what I had always expected and planned for and as such it's not a decision I can just make lightly.
Click to expand...

How many people have you known that have allowed you to come up with such a generalization? Where do you get this stuff, man?
 
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Passion4Sci said:
LSAT is scored out of 180 and the percentage/percentile is rarely given.

3.88 cGPA is actually kind of low for HLS, with 75th percentile being 3.72 and upper 25th at 3.95.

.
Click to expand...
http://www.top-law-schools.com/harvard-law-school.html
3.88 is the median while median LSAT is 173 for last years entering class.
This year due to a hugh increase in applications the medians are expected to be higher with gpa falling around 3.9.
http://www.west.net/~stewart/lsat/lsat101.htm
This is a site that shows a general percentile of LSAT scores with 172 and above being 99th percentile.
Scary competitive. On another note, EC's often pose little to no importance to Law schools which is quite sad. How would you know you like it??
 
Give any thought into applying to a PharmD JD dual degree program?
 
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